Waste?

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jkoyas

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Oct 25, 2000
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East Hanover, NJ
As I've said before I am a newbie to the picture framing game. I've found this board to be highly helpfull whenever I have questions. My question this time concerns molding waste. If a custom framing order requires 13 feet of molding and the molding strips come in 10 foot lengths, what do you do with the cost of the extra 7 feet of molding left over? Do you charge the customer for the extra 7 feet, or do you eat the cost? Any insight from this board is greately appreciated.
 
Check out the archives for a thread titled "chops vs. length" or something like that. Lots of good info there. I THINK I have a post there about my ready made frame scam--er-uh-I mean, program! Good luck! Also maybe do a search for "short length buyers" and I think there is some good stuff there as well. AND I think there is some discussion on how to price according to how you buy. AND some actual price comparisons.
 
A rule of thumb we use is if the moulding costs more than we would like to see laying around Say $1.50 / ft or whatever you decide, order chop. Figure what your bread and butter mouldings are and try to deal with your distributors on price.
 
A person burchasing only 20'(or 10') of moulding, enough for a single frame is not a length moulding framer.

First of all all length moulding framers expect a percentage of scrap from the sticks that they use. This scrap percentage varies by the size of the frame. Small frames utilize length moulding more efficiently due to shorts being used for frames.

Second, the cost of length moulding is less than that of chops. This difference answers your question of what to charge. It accounts for the cost of labor to cut the chops and the cost of additional scrap.

I use both chop and length. I have always standardized my pricing with chop prices to account for my additional labor and scrap.

------------------
Jerome Feig CPF ISA
Field Art Studio
Pleasant Ridge, MI
248-399-1320
248-399-7018 fax
 
To answer you question, if it takes 13 feet you charge for thirteen feet. The measurment is to the outside of the frame with a small amount added as waste.

A 16 x 20 with a 1 inch wide moulding = (16+16+20+20+8 inches for corner waste+scrape I would add 4 inches on a 1 inch molding) = 84 inches or 7 feet.

The extra molding need to be sold to someone else in the future. You can also cut and join it into a readymade if you are of mind.

In many cases the price to buy 20 feet length v 13 foot chop is about the same with the later you have a little extra for stock.

Each order needs to be looked at on how to purchase your materials.


framer
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by framer:
A 16 x 20 with a 1 inch wide moulding = (16+16+20+20+8 inches for corner waste+scrape I would add 4 inches on a 1 inch molding) = 84 inches or 7 feet.

framer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! I wish I had moulding suppliers like you do.
I have to allow at least 25% for wastage. This allows for twisted bits, timber defects, finish defects, damage by couriers and the end bit on each length that is unusable.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Framing Goddess:
Check out the archives for a thread titled "chops vs. length" or something like that. Lots of good info there. I THINK I have a post there about my ready made frame scam--er-uh-I mean, program! Good luck! Also maybe do a search for "short length buyers" and I think there is some good stuff there as well. AND I think there is some discussion on how to price according to how you buy. AND some actual price comparisons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goddess, whom I've admired from afar.
I just checked the archives for threads on your "scam--er-uh-I mean, program" and I couldn't find what you were referring to. Can you be more specific?

P.S. By the way, when someone asks me what I want to do when I grow up or what my ideal job would be, I always answer "God". He can do what he wants and doesn't suffer any reprocussions.


------------------
curlyframer, CPF
 
Okay curlymapleframer,
These are the threads to which I was referring:
To buy or not to buy(chops) Sept. 29 ajhohen
and
Where have all the gift frames gone? Sept. 23, 2000 silent pic
Good pricing stuff...
The Goddess appreciates the sincere admiration!!!
See ya'll in Las Vegas! Smilies'R'Us!
-FG
 
Getting back to the original thread - Waste - We have an artist who specializes in minatures. If we end up with 1.2m (4feet for you foreigners) or more we convert it into an 8"x10" frame -the lady will take as many as we can produce . She isn't fussy about the frame pattern which is a big help and we give them to her for the right price . Otherwise we end up throwing it out as waste after it has been marked or scratched . Hope this has been of some help . While I'm bashing the keys , how many grumblers have we in Australia . Seems not many . Regards - Alan

[This message has been edited by framer (edited April 10, 2001).]
 
How appropriate, the question about how many Ockers there are comes under the title "Waste".


[This message has been edited by Lance E (edited January 13, 2001).]
 
There really is no such thing as waste. If you have to oder 20' of moulding to complete a 13' job, either save the moulding for a second order or cut it down to a ready made size.
You know what you have in stock when the next client walks through the door.
On the ready-made idea.
You can use waste to fill your shop with 11 x 14 and 8 x 10 frames. Use the fall outs of your mats to mats as well.
Simply have copies of inserts printed out with your company logo and use your scraps as ready made matted frames. Shrink wrap them and use flexi-pionts or easel backs.
This is a good way to turn slow times into productive times as well as make some extra bucks of somthing that was heading for the trash can.
Side note:
If you live near your distubutor, call and ask when they sell their waste. You can buy their waste in bulk for pennies and do the same thing.
 
jkoyas & Curly,

There are actually a few previous threads on this subject.......
......however Jerome Feig hit it on the head best by stating that a purchase of 10-20 feet purchases do not constitute true length buying in the full sense of the term.

I believe that framers make their purchases as Chop purchases (consolidated for efficiency), Short length purchases (Short immediate gain on profitability) or as full length buyers (volume, discounts and maximizing mark-up potential).

Check these out:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Chops Vs. Length
<LI>To buy or not to buy Chops
<LI>Heart Attack, It's Happened
[/list]

Regards,

John

------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
--------------------
 
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