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wall buddies

R

rdanielson

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Posts
13
From
Vermont
I've been reading some past threads about wall buddies and understand that quite a few of the members here like them.

I have one question that I did not see talked about. What are the customers' reactions to wall buddies? Do they prefer to see a traditional wire hanging instead?
 
My customers love them....but keep wire too!
You will have some customers that just dont understand or are to old fashion to change their habits.
 
I've had a few customers bring other pictures in to be retrofitted because they like them so much.

A few (but only a very few) just can't get past the "pictures are supposed to have wires."

I keep some of the "bagged" retail packages and sell 'em for $3.00.
 
Is there any big difference between metal frame and wood buddies.

I ask this because I ordered some for a metal job I did and needed a pair for a wood job. (all i had in shop were for metal frames)

I drilled holes in the made for metal set and screwed them into the wood and it worked fine and was flat against the wall.

Are the wood ones essentially the same as metal except for the holes?
 
We started providing WallBuddies as our standard hanging system about five years ago, for these reasons:

1. It's a better hanging system than wire because;
----A. Two point attachment to wall
----B. Reinforces upper corners,instead of stressing frame as a wire would.

2. Customers correctly perceive WallBuddies to be a premium hanging system.

3. The net cost is less (at my labor rates) than installing a tied wire, even though the hardware costs more.

4. Hanging may be accomplished with no measuring when we bend up the center points on each side. Mr. Eggers and others provide a template to serve the same purpose.

WallBuddies look unfamiliar; uninformed customers would usually ask for the more familiar wire if we did not explain how WallBuddies work.

So, customers are always given our 30-second "WallBuddies speech" and hanging demonstration during the frame design discussion. Nearly all customers prefer WallBuddies when they understand how they work. We sell WallBuddies in kits for customers to convert frames at home, too.

There is also a security-hanging version of WallBuddies, which I like for commercial installations.

No hanging system is perfect for all occasions. For example, for art to be hung in a contest or exhibition space, the organizers usually specify wired frames -- and improperly hang them by one wall hook.
 
After fielding about 6 phone calls and probably 2 request to never ever ever use them again, I have gone to only using them when absolutely necessary.
 
The only customers that have turned down WallBuddies are those that, as has been said, can't imagine 'life without wire'. We won't stop carrying wire either.

The largest percentage of our work is done using WallBuddies. And I might add that I now have customers that will say, "Don't forget to use the WallBuddies - they are GREAT!".....they like the ease in hanging the pictures.
 
Designers are the worst to convince: I'm too genteel for fisticuffs but one drove me to frowns and cryptic lecture not long ago...and it wasn't even about WallBuddies but strap hangers on a huge mirror. Dumb woman.
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A designer the other day about balked in midstride when she saw the WallBuddies. "I HATE those things." I insisted and unless she wired the silly pix herself, she used the system. They aren't my default hanger, but I sure use them when I think necessary.
 
I use them as much as possible. I use the template suggestion that I read about here on the grumble and give one to every customer. We receive many compliments on our "personalized service." I have had two customers come back and buy an entire box because they wanted to re-do all of the artwork in the homes with wallbuddies. The only complaint we have had was from a gallery owner who sends us quite a bit of business. He wants to use wire because he sometimes hangs the artwork he sells and he said the wallbuddies take too long.
 
After fielding...request(s) to never ever ever use them again, I have gone to only using them when absolutely necessary.
Click to expand...
Jay Hartman

A designer the other day about balked in midstride when she saw the WallBuddies. "I HATE those things."
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MerpsMom

Comments like these come from customers who do not understand, and the solution is to inform them.

The WallBuddies demo at our design counter is so simple and quick that anyone can "get it" in about 30 seconds. When we point to it, they grimace, because WallBuddies look complicated. Then we show how it works, their eyes light up, and we know they are hooked. At least once a week I hear something like "Why didn't I think of that?"

Our demo is a 9" wide x 4" high, open frame built out of 1" wide moulding, with large WallBuddies screwed to the back. It rests on two WallBuddies wall hooks installed 3/8" off-level, on a black Gatorfoam plaque 9-1/2" x 8", which is covered with a color sign I made. The sign says,"WallBuddies -- Our Best Hanging System -- No Measuring -- Easy to Hang -- Stays Level".

This demo is Velcro-stuck to our 10" square, 30" high Cundy rotating fillet display on our design table. Packaged WallBuddies are on hooks below it, and they sell like crazy. If you have a simple little WallBuddies demo like this, it's a no-brainer.

We are supposed to be the experts who bring our customers better framing. WallBuddies really are better than wire and, properly explained, are easier than hanging from a wire when alignment or positioning is important. And more secure. No measuring, no crooked frames.

Life is good.
 
I just had an artist"of some years" and had necver heard of such a thing...and would not be argued out of wire...fortunately, her significant other saw the light at once and pronounced that it was WB's or she could **** well hang it herself!!! previous to that I had one lady come back & demand that wire be put on..didnt trust the metal mount---wouldnt be argued out of it. previous to that I had one lady call back complaining she could NOT get it to level..no amount of cajoling/explaining could makeit better......3 in 4 years....not too sabby
 
Jim, you have encountered at least as many or more clients in this industry than have I: there are simply people with whom I stop arguing. I think you need a "cheater" neutral mat next to the art before a color, some only half-jokingly self-destruct when discussing the opposite. If we could convince others of our clear and reasonable justifications for what we do, we wouldn't have these political discussions on Warped about what to do regarding GWB, Iraq, healthcare, and immigration reform.

What can I say?
 
Is there any big difference between metal frame and wood buddies.
Click to expand...
Yes.

There are two versions of the Wallbuddies for metal frames. There is a "plastic" version that is designed to retrofit by snapping into the channel of an already-assembled frame.

Then there is a metal version (my preference) that replaces the untapped corner hardware on the top corners while assembling the metal frame.

Both are considerably different in design than the two versions for wood frames.
 
What I had was a blank frame on the wall with WBs. Then I had two sets of hooks. One set was level and one was angled. I showed them the barbs that would locate the hanger and how the hangers don't have to be square. All of this was in plane view of the customer through the blank frame.

It was closer to a minute.

Isn't there just a teeny tiny possibility that I have both the intelligence to explain a simple hanging system AND the customer not like them?

Now if this question was "What’s the better overall hanging system" then we would be in complete agreement but it wasn't. It was about customers reactions.

Most customers said nothing or liked them. However PLENTY hated them and was quite vocal about it. I was concerned about how many also hated them and said nothing? This is a concern you too should have Jim.

I can't recall a single customer complain about a wire. There might have been one, I just can't remember it.

This doesn’t have anything to do with customer reactions but they are a bit pricey too.
 
My experience is similar to yours, Jay. This is going to be part rant and part rave.

It is both a LOVE/HATE relationship, and superior way of hanging art. Customers simply are not as comfortable with a hammer and nails or measuring devices as we are. Some of them don't have yard sticks or long ruling implements. Don't even say it, I know they can cut a template out of paper. It's a pain in the a** for somebody to have to do that, and YES, I know then we can do it for them. Yet, MANY of those same customers will use 2 hangers to hang a piecve of art with wire. Talk about measuring!

I am concerned about bending the teeth outward. What if it scratches something in their car? Like leather seats or another frame. It is very common for a customer to have multiple pieces to transport home. Truly it sounds like a good idea, but customers just aren't as careful with placement of artwork during transportation OR placement in the home while waiting to hang. No, we can't ALWAYS help them arrange everything in their car. I can just see a deep gouge in a piece of fine furniture. We wouldl have to come up with some sort of pad that would absolutely prevent scratches. I like Ron's idea too, but it is very time consuming in a high volume shop.

That said, we do use them a LOT. I'm not the one who has to be convinced. We also change probably 1/3 of them back to wire. It would help ever so much if they would come out with a new instruction label. I can think of only 3 or 4 customers who truly 'get' and want nothing but WB's on even the smallest pic.
 
I did quit bending the teeth outward. If I'm hanging it, I do. I had an idea one day of a customer calling and saying that it had gouged there dining table.
 
Originally posted by Jay H:
...Most customers said nothing or liked them. However PLENTY hated them and was quite vocal about it. I was concerned about how many also hated them and said nothing? This is a concern you too should have Jim.

...This doesn’t have anything to do with customer reactions but they are a bit pricey too.
Click to expand...
I have no concerns about customers hating WallBuddies -- or any other element of the framing done in my shop. Everything we do is guaranteed to be satisfactory. After-the-fact, customers occasionally change their minds about a mat color, but rarely their choice of hanging hardware. They do, hawever, come back quite often to buy retro-fit WallBuddies kits.

WallBuddies are presented as the best hanging system we offer for general purposes. We do not recommend them when other hanging hardware is more appropriate for the job at hand.

During the design discussion -- before the customer buys anything -- we explain & demonstrate whatever hardware we believe to be best for a particular job. At that time, every customer makes a conscious decision to buy the system we recommend, or not. It is their choice, free of pressure or coercion.

The few customers who are not enthusiastic about WallBuddies are welcome to specify D-rings, wire, or whatever other hanging system suits their preferences, so long as it is adequate for the job. (We will not put a sawtooth hanger on a frame larger than 11x14, for example.)

We charge a little more for WallBuddies because the system is worth more, but at our $60 per hour shop labor rate, our net installed cost is actually lower than tying a wire.

I think anyone who "loves" or "hates" a hanging system may be a bit strange. Emotion probably should not command that decision.
 
Originally posted by Jay H:
I did quit bending the teeth outward. If I'm hanging it, I do. I had an idea one day of a customer calling and saying that it had gouged there dining table.
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We show the bent-up points in our demonstration, but we bend the points for customers only if they want us to do it for them. When they come to pick up, we review the hanging procedure, and ask if they would like us to bend the points up, with a caution about handling. Most say yes.

The back of a picture frame has metal things that stick out, whatever hardware is used. That kind of object probably should not be laid down on a dining room table. Our "Thank You" brochure, which goes out with every order, includes that and other cautions, as well.

Communication is not supposed to be a lost art.
 
I love 'em.

My customers love 'em.

But I feel no particular motivation to defend them agains those that don't.

Darrell stopped sending me commission checks a long time ago.

(That's a joke, Darrell.)

Jay, anything's possible, and I don't see any reason why you would lie about it. It seems weird, but I'll give you and your customers the benefit of the doubt.

I know you'll sleep better now.
 
Well Ron, I'm learning that the laws of physics, mathematical formulas, and even time is inconsistent between shops here on the Grumble. Faced with that it makes the differing experiences with WB quite predictable.
 
We have had the "retro fitting" experience several times. One example is on older couple. They are a delightful couple, both smart and witty. He is prob 80 years old, been there and done everything. He didn't want any stinkin' wall buddies. We had to take them off and put on wire. Did that several times. He wasn't having much luck putting 2 hooks in the right place to keep them level AND in the correct spot according to the little lady. I asked them to just try the wall buddies. GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE. He did and brought it back for wire. A few weeks later he came in and bought retail WB's packets to put on everything in the house!

Just thought I'd share that story.
 
Originally posted by jframe:
... He didn't want any stinkin' wall buddies. We had to take them off and put on wire. Did that several times....
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I don't understand how that happened several times. Do you talk about hanging hardware in the design process, or did you skip that part with this customer? Or, are you saying he ordered WallBuddies "several times" and then changed his mind later?

If WallBuddies are not explained up front, I guess most customers would reject them out of unfamilarity.

We routinely review our hanging hardware recommendations before we take a deposit on a framing order. If a customer has rejected any particular hanging system in the past, we put a memo in our POS system for that customer's preference. No surprises.
 
I always make a template for WBs or ring hangers/no wire jobs. When the cust. hears that it will be easier to hang than using wire, they are happy. Plus, the template protects the front of the frame on the way home.
:cool: Rick
 
No, often we don't talk about hangers in the design process. For most customers it is a matter of framer knows best.

Yes, on several of his frames we changed the wb's to wire then back to wb's. Then, viola, he finally got it.

You know, I just hope I'm able to adjust to new ways of doing things when I am 80 years old.
 
I have never, not one single time, had a customer that had any question about the Wall Buddy hanger after leaving my store. I spend less than ten seconds explaining "place the hooks X number of inches apart and hang the picture on them."

Try explaining it in the same manner as I do and I bet you will have no more issues.

This topic baffles me every time I see it come up.

Place the sticker on the back and be done with it already.
 
Originally posted by jframe:
No, often we don't talk about hangers in the design process. For most customers it is a matter of framer knows best.
Click to expand...
If framer is hanging, that's OK. But when customer is hanging, then customer wants what he "knows best".

I think it is a leap of faith to assume a customer will have the patience to figure out an unfamiliar hanging system, no matter how good it is.

It only takes 30 seconds to make WallBuddies crystal clear. After that, it's "thank you", and not "@%*# you" for doing better framing.
 
I just called my girlfriend who has NO mechanical ability and very low frustration toleration (she has a hissy fit and walks away from anything that frustrates her). She has never had anything custom framed.

This is what I said:

"If you were to pick up a framed piece of art and were told to put the two hooks 28" inches apart and hang the picture on it what would you do?"

Her reply:

"I would put the two hooks 28" apart and hang the picture on it."

Too much information with her would have created huge issues and she would be your most confused, frustrated and angry customer ever.
 
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