Vintage posters...again

Aaron Randall

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Posts
124
Loc
Fayetteville, Arkansas
I just spent the last three hours reading everything I could on framing vintage posters, as I had 4 canvas backed posters come in the shop. I'm not sure if I know less or more than when I started. I know I won't go to Ed at learnaboutmoveposters or his super framer Sue anytime soon. This is one topic where the best practices seem to wildly vary.

I have 4 late 70's, early 80's movie posters, from Poland, of American movies. They are just over 40 inches and the customer would like to use museum glass. My original plan was to mount them to 4 ply cotton rag using Fusion 4000(with glass spacers), but after my research, I'm going to reevaluate. These will be going in the basement of the customer's home, converted to a movie room, so humidity is an issue. I don't really want to use a DCO method to mount, as the ink seems fairly unstable, so I'd rather not have anything, even acrylic touching the art. I could hinge them at the top, but they have been rolled, and I'm pretty sure they will get wavy soon under the spaced out glass. No way am I going to mount them to stretcher bars or any similar option.

So, I'm not sure I understand the aversion to mounting them. I've mounted canvas to rag board in the past, albeit 20 years ago, and I never had a problem removing a piece from backing using Fusion. It always seems that between the cotton rag and porousness of the canvas, they pretty much peel right off with a little heat. The other concern with mounting is the level of conservation(Fusion not being truly archival), but it seems to me that between the AF rice backing paper, canvas, ph neutral Fusion, and rag board that the original poster is pretty well insulated from anything that can harm it. Am I off base in this assessment?

Is this just one of those cases where we are going to have to live with wavy posters in the name of preservation?
I feel like my only viable option is DCO and hope for the best, and that is rather unsatisfying.

Thanks for any guidance.
 
Just to let you know, many older Polish Posters are quite valuable, I would be careful with doing any permanent mounting of these posters unless you would like to purchase them. Fusion 4000, even when removed leaves an adhesive deposit that is near impossible to remove. I wouldn't trust it but I'm not a conservator so maybe a conservator will let us know what their thoughts are.

Personally, I would do a raised/pedestal float with top hinges, a couple of side hinges, and spacers so there is plenty of space between the glass allowing the poster to drape. Looks good, there will be room to expand and contract, and if you use a mulberry hinge with rice paste you will not be doing any permanent damage to the poster.

Just my $0.02 - I would hate to purchase something because I screwed it up...just saying Joe B
 
Thanks for the input. I have discussed all of the options with the customer, I'd prefer to put a 8 ply over them and see what happens, as this was my first choice. Mounting only came up because he asked about it becoming wavy. His top priority is looks, he has two American Star Wars posters which are both wavy(not done by me), and he hates the way it looks. He says he has no intention of ever reselling, the values range between $400-900. I, to this point, have framed everything with conservation and preservation in mind, I use nothing but conservation materials and hinging methods, and dry mount as little as possible and never anything of value. I'm still torn, I did a sample dry mount with fusion and a scrap piece of canvas I had, and pulled it off cold and after reheating, both came off easily and left no residue, not sure how years passing by would affect that. The raw edge of the canvas did pull out when I removed the canvas on one side, leaving a weft string still attached to the rag board. I think I'm going to suggest to do them with a mat and hinge and offer to pull them apart if they get wavy and try to get them flat, but paper has a better memory than me!!
 
And I'll add that I'm not liable for anything, he has agreed to sign a waiver if we do end up mounting them, he's a sharp guy who gets how all of this works. I tried to put a mat on them up front and he wants them framed to look like they would hang in a theatre, not a museum. He truly does not care about the value
 
Another concern, watch out dry mounting wavy. Waves often turn into creases! The adhesive often prevents the movement needed to allow flattening.

They are not anywhere close to being wavy enough for that to be a concern. Right now, they aren't too bad, he is concerned about them being in his finished basement where his movie room is located, a high humidity enviroment. I suggested a dehumidification system, as I use one in my shop.
 
The customer owns the most successful restaurant in the city we are located, so getting this right is pretty important, it's a balance of what he wants versus what is best for the art, a very delicate balance.
 
Of course posters in their natural habitat i.e. pasted to a wall, are all dead flat and never a wrinkle. (not).

It's always a knotty problem when it comes to aesthetics v. preservation. I've sometimes mounted silk-based items
by pre-mounting dry-mount film (with paper still on the upside) to create a tacky surface. After the board has cooled,
peel off the release paper and smooth the thing down. A quick, low pressure squeeze in the press will attach the fabric and hold it
flat, but it won't permanently bond it. The adhesive will not be forced into the weave as it would with a longer cooking time.
I've done this on quite large silks and they do peel off very easily, but left to their own devices they stay stuck down.
It may or may not work on a linen-backed poster but if it does it might be the answer.

Just a thought.......:rolleyes:
 
Of course posters in their natural habitat i.e. pasted to a wall, are all dead flat and never a wrinkle. (not).

It's always a knotty problem when it comes to aesthetics v. preservation. I've sometimes mounted silk-based items
by pre-mounting dry-mount film (with paper still on the upside) to create a tacky surface. After the board has cooled,
peel off the release paper and smooth the thing down. A quick, low pressure squeeze in the press will attach the fabric and hold it
flat, but it won't permanently bond it. The adhesive will not be forced into the weave as it would with a longer cooking time.
I've done this on quite large silks and they do peel off very easily, but left to their own devices they stay stuck down.
It may or may not work on a linen-backed poster but if it does it might be the answer.

Just a thought.......:rolleyes:
Very similar to my line of thinking, as I had mounted a silk like that years ago, and had to remove it a few years later for the customer, as they sold the piece and the buyer didn't want the frame(I also premounted the fusion to a ragboard, then the piece to the board as well). It came off much more easily than I anticipated. When I got back into framing and opened my own shop, I told myself I was going to do everything the right way, no matter the cost. Problem here is I know that the right way doesn't achieve what the customer wants and the wrong way won't destroy the art(only make it a pain to demount in the future but still very doable). Thanks for your thoughts.

The highest value piece, the Polish Star Wars poster, has three pin holes in every corner from being tacked to a wall. It was touched up by the company that mounted it, but still....
 
If customer is OK then how about mount them on Kool Tack?
I don't have a local distributer for Kool Tack. I'd love to carry some of their products and plan to get some boards next time I'm in KC(three hour drive), but that will be in three weeks, and the customer has a deadline. Great idea and would probably be my first choice, may try to swing it but shipping 40x60 boards is fairly cost prohibitive, and these guys are 41".
 
If you don't have access to KoolTack products, you could consider ArtCare Restore FC, which is designed to be fully reversable.
:cool: Rick

I'll check it out, thanks Rick. I'm definitely leaning towards a cooler temp mount option at this point, probably checks the most boxes.
 
From what I've heard, glass is a better humidity barrier than acrylic, which is hygroscopic. If you really want to moisture proof them, you might try assembling glass, a spacer, and whatever package you create for the art, then sandwiching them with MarvelSeal all around the outside. (Just be careful if you do not to scratch your tacking iron).

Perhaps you already know this, but for the record, here are a couple links to great helps by Chris Paschke:

http://www.pictureframingmagazine.net/portals/0/pfm/pdfs/2014/Feb_14_Mounting.pdf

http://www.designsinkart.com/
 
From what I've heard, glass is a better humidity barrier than acrylic, which is hygroscopic. If you really want to moisture proof them, you might try assembling glass, a spacer, and whatever package you create for the art, then sandwiching them with MarvelSeal all around the outside. (Just be careful if you do not to scratch your tacking iron).

Perhaps you already know this, but for the record, here are a couple links to great helps by Chris Paschke:

http://www.pictureframingmagazine.net/portals/0/pfm/pdfs/2014/Feb_14_Mounting.pdf

http://www.designsinkart.com/
Great info, thanks. They are concepts I'm familiar with but I'd say the first article takes it to another level. The issue I'd be afraid of is trapping moisture inside the sealed package. I run a dehumidifier in my shop and still hit 70% RH some days, it was usually over 90% when I moved into the building. I may see if any are going on exterior walls and try it out, as humidity seemed to be a huge concern for the customer, and he would probably pay for that extra protection. Probably have to pick a dry day and crank up the dehumidifier!
 
Another concern, watch out dry mounting wavy. Waves often turn into creases! The adhesive often prevents the movement needed to allow flattening.

Very true as I have found out in the past. :confused:

There are waves and there are bumps. Waves are lateral undulations and you can usually flatten them when you smooth
the piece onto the board. Localised bumps are more problematic. Hard, if not impossible to flatten with pressure as any
swollen excess cannot push sideways into the flatter areas surrounding. The only choice it has is to fold over on itself,
resulting in a tight 'half-moon' crease. You can usually tell if it's possible for it to be pressed flat in the smoothing down stage.
If there are bumps then the careful attention of a conservator is called for before mounting.
 
I would hold out for Kool Tack. I, and I know others, have had issues with Artcare Restore. Consequently I stopped using it when Kool Tack hit the market. Of course it's possible that they've solved the problem. Perhaps someone who still uses it could weigh in on that.
 
Of course posters in their natural habitat i.e. pasted to a wall, are all dead flat and never a wrinkle. (not).

It's always a knotty problem when it comes to aesthetics v. preservation. I've sometimes mounted silk-based items
by pre-mounting dry-mount film (with paper still on the upside) to create a tacky surface. After the board has cooled,
peel off the release paper and smooth the thing down. A quick, low pressure squeeze in the press will attach the fabric and hold it
flat, but it won't permanently bond it. The adhesive will not be forced into the weave as it would with a longer cooking time.
I've done this on quite large silks and they do peel off very easily, but left to their own devices they stay stuck down.
It may or may not work on a linen-backed poster but if it does it might be the answer.

Just a thought.......:rolleyes:

Prospero, I used this method after discussing it with the customer. Used Fusion, pre-mounted it to 4 ply rag at 175, then mounted canvas backed poster at 160 degrees for 150 seconds. Winner, winner, I feel like I got my cake and ate it too, I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Solid mount but peels right off with almost no effort at all. As long as it stays mounted, you knocked it out of the park with your suggestion. The customer didn't want to wait for Kool Tack, and I feel pretty good with the posters mounted to 4 ply Rag. I'll make some nice 1/2-3/4" spacers out of the same rag board, as it is almost a perfect match with the backing paper, which we are leaving some showing per the customers request. Looks great, and can be undone with ease.
 
Definitely investing in some Kool Tack next time I head to the distributor, would have saved me some time and energy on this project.
 
For me, mounting tissue and heat does not = Conservation.
Also, I really don't see the point of "mounting" something that is removable by lightly lifting.
I get lower temperature mounting board. I love Mountcor, but I would only ever use it on non-valuable, replaceable prints that might get damaged at higher temperatures.
 
For me, mounting tissue and heat does not = Conservation.
Also, I really don't see the point of "mounting" something that is removable by lightly lifting.
I get lower temperature mounting board. I love Mountcor, but I would only ever use it on non-valuable, replaceable prints that might get damaged at higher temperatures.

The customer wasn't as concerned as much about true conservation as aesthetics and understood all of the options perfectly clear. This option gave us the balance he was looking to achieve, as I have no doubt in my mind the posters will be fine for 50 years(his time frame upon bringing them in). I have posters I dry mounted 25 years ago on regular FC that are in the same shape today as they were when mounted with colormount, so I feel that a ph neutral tissue in between ragboard and canvas offers enough protection to meet the customers instructions. If the customer told me that conservation was his primary concern we would have done something much different. Again, I was trying to check as many boxes as possible, not just the conservation box, and in the end felt like †hat was accomplished. His number one concern was that they stay perfectly flat with some level of preservation.
 
I'm late to the game, but I would've suggested mounting the canvas backed posters to competition board which is a generic form of DiBond coated with Kool Tack E2 adhesive. E2 is intended for mounting of fabrics and is still reversible. DiBond is an aluminum clad board that is dimensionally stable.
 
I have a vintage poster that has a very heavy frame with plexiglassmaking measurement 48x53. I want it sentf rom Florida to UK. Cost is -4000 dollars. A frame shop has suggested removingbhesvy frame and plexi to roll up and carry on plane. Would this be advisable-?
 
I have a vintage poster that has a very heavy frame with plexiglassmaking measurement 48x53. I want it sentf rom Florida to UK. Cost is -4000 dollars. A frame shop has suggested removingbhesvy frame and plexi to roll up and carry on plane. Would this be advisable-?
Welcome to the G

Please start a new thread as you will receive more replies
 
Back
Top