vintage poster, backed with linen(?)

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Ylva

Ylva

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I didn't find the answers while doing a search....

Customer brought in today; a vintage poster, linen backed, rolled in a tube (sent directly from a vintage poster source)

We unrolled it; and it won't lay flat. It acts like one of these japanese arts, where the sides are taped. Without the backing; it would lay flat.

I have never had a linen backed vintage poster come in, so also don't know what to look for and what to advise, other than contact someone specialized in paper restoration.

The poster itself seems in perfect condition. Was there a reason to linen back this? It almost feels like a 'stick and peel' job...but then again; I'm no expert....

I just would like to have as many comments as possible, before I contact the person at this vintage poster source (I have a name and phone number). Questions to ask?
Comments to make?

Oh, it was rolled with the image facing in. Is that normal as well????
 
"Search" is your friend. Many threads about this.

Linen backing (when done properly) is an acceptable technique within the poster collector's community. There are conservators on this forum who feel that there are other preferred methods but I won't renew that debate.

The linen is stretched onto a frame and then rag paper is adhered to the linen and then the poster (usually after washing and deacidification) is adhered to the rag paper.

The rag border is irrelevant and the size is at the whim of the poster mounter. It is usually there to protect the edges of the poster from handling and it is acceptable to trim it (usually leaving 1/6" all around to verify the actual size of the original poster and to confirm that the framer has not trimmed the poster) if the poster is to be framed without a mat. Or, a mat can be placed over the border.

We usually have to unroll the posters and store them in a sleeve made of fome-cor or coroplast for enough time for them to lie flat. The posters are usually rolled face in. Someties reverse rolling over a large diameter tube will help the poster to relax.

Vintage posters were printed on wood pulp paper and were intended for short term "posting" on walls and kiosks. Without the linen backing, many would disintegrate from handling and they could not support their own weight when hinged into a mat.
 
Rob, 'search' was not my friend...too many threads came up without the answers I was looking for....

I will try storing it flat in a sleeve. Also will try to relax it by rolling it reversed. How succesful can I expect this to be....? Anyone?

I am aware of the controversy and have read the threads where Rebecca posted about how much she doesn't like the linen lining, I am not opening that can of worms again.
It is lined. It is also not staying flat.
 
If you have the space, cut a couple of strips of acrylic glazing, smooth the edges, and use one as a weight on either end of the poster, and leave it flat for a couple weeks. The humidity of summer may do the job for you.

It has been traditional to roll posters, prints, paintings, etc. media-side in, but conservators currently favor media-side out. Media-in, the media has to buckle on itself slightly; media out, it needs to stretch slightly, and the slight stretching generally leads to less media loss.

Fabric and paper-and-fabric linings are traditional for posters, and what collectors continue to expect and to have done. Paper conservators generally prefer paper-only linings.
 
Ylva said:
I will try storing it flat in a sleeve. Also will try to relax it by rolling it reversed. How succesful can I expect this to be....? Anyone?
Click to expand...

Not to disagree with Rob on this one, as his suggestion is going to work well in MOST cases, but if you are reverse rolling you will want to us a VERY large tube or other. If this was originally rolled in a 6" wide tube, I would want something 24" or better. Smaller reverse roll can/will/often create(s) a situation where the poster could/will/might crack. Bigger is better.

I would go the route of the sleeve. I know of a shop here that will allow it to sit in their press, without vacuum, but with some heat to relax it and they swear by it but I believe time is a better ally. Others will chime in, I'm sure.
 
Rob Markoff said:
Sometimes reverse rolling over a large diameter tube will help the poster to relax.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I agree with Paul. We use a tube that is about 18" in diameter that we have saved just for this purpose.
 
Ylva said:
How successful can I expect this to be....? Anyone?
Click to expand...

Hold it up to the computer so we can all see it :).

Every poster has its own properties. Hard to render an opinion with our seeing it in person. We have framed hundreds of vintage posters and some of our work was on the Antiques Roadshow. The majority are very easy to work with, especially linen backed posters.
 
LOL Rob; am holding it up right now!!!! (not really)

Yes; I understood the large diameter; I have a tube that's 18" diameter so it should work if I decide to do this.
For now; I have informed the customer and I have it in a sleeve/foam board and will see if it relaxes over time. She is in no hurry and appreciates the help and information.
 
Sorry about that. I was experimenting and accidently deleted post.

Post was -- We have some clients who get vintage posters backed this way, from Ross posters in New York. http://www.postergroup.com/

We have done as others suggested and they flattened well. We did have one that was crinkeled and a conservator sorted it out for us.

We spoke to Ross Gallery once and they wet mount their posters onto board. We have done the same for one client (not our favourite method).
 
Ylva said:
I am aware of the controversy and have read the threads where Rebecca posted about how much she doesn't like the linen lining, I am not opening that can of worms again.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you think the canvas vs paper backings topic is a controversial can of worms! I thought it was an informed discussion ;). As 05 says, there are two schools of thought, and it is good for framers who are making treatment recommendations to know this.

I also realize that this was not the purpose of your original query in this thread.
 
Hi Rebecca! It was not an attack on you; so hope you didn't take it that way. I value your opinion, and while reading the other threads, thought your input was very valuable.
But it seems that by my question I was opening a discussion that has taken place many times before....that was the referral and a discussion I was not trying to revive. (hence the can of worms).

The poster is slowly relaxing in the mean time. It seems that the edges are slower to 'uncurl' though...the added part to the poster (the white) I mean.
The customer has also now decided to have no mats at all. I fear that putting spacers in might increase the problem again....
 
Generally speaking, window mats are very useful in keeping sheets of paper more rather than less in plane.

You should express your concerns about this poster to the client. The changing humidity in his house -even if the poster is in a 'sealed' mat package- will probably cause the poster to change shape one way or another. I've seen it happen several times.

I normally hinge a sheet and then prop it up to be vertical for a few days to see what happens, especially if it is something we have just flattened.
 
That's a good idea; as soon as it seems flat enough, I'll hinge it and see what happens.
I emailed my customer about my concerns already, as soon as he said he didn't want the mats (they were picked out by his wife).

I have a feeling he thinks I'm kinda nagging/nitpicking....but he can't find the time to come in, or call, so all is done by email right now....I would like to properly discuss things and show him what I mean.

I think he has framed vintage posters before and never went into this discussion with previous framers...probably just frame, glass on top and 'here you go sir' kinda job. (I'm just guessing here!!!)
 
Not to get off track, but, is the linen backing specialized for posters, or, can I use regular linen?
I'm not finding any to buy and want to see about some to repair a poster I picked up. Its a larger than normal KISS poster, from the 90's, with several tears from being overly dry. Thanks Richard
 
Richard, The process of mounting a poster to a rag paper/linen backed sub-straight is not a DIY process and is done by a conservator who specializes in the process.
 
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