v-grooves from the front

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cwiser

cwiser

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
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354
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The Colony Texas
Has anybody else had the problem of cutting v-grooves with teh Wizards? This problem is that the distance from the clamp to the v-groove seams to be different when cutting than from the original design. Basically we have to add an 1 1/2" spacer either as a seperate piece of mat or add it to the design to begin with. Problem is it's not consistent, if I knew what to do everytime I would just do it everytime. It happens with no apparent reason. I've called and never really got an answer that explained it. Just wondered if I'm the only one having this problem or not. We still cut them everyday but it's a guessing game as to whether it will cut where we want it to or not.:(
 
I've done many, many of varying complexity and never had a problem??

Don't know what to say or ask? Could it be your configuration some how?
 
I'm not sure how the Wizard cuts, but I can tell you how it is on my F6100.

I have a choice of cutting the outside of the mat on two sides or all four sides. If I choose all 4 sides, then I get an extra 1/2 of space on the left.

If you have that option, perhaps that's why your extra space is showing up sometimes.
 
I really don't know? I don't see how it can be a config problem though. It literally adds about 1 1/2" to the mat but it does it at random. It is very frustrating and nobody seams to know why it does it. I have two 8000's and it happens on either one of them so that makes me think it's not with the configs. I dunno???? I can have a design laid out perfectly and when we start the cut the head moves over too far and drops down to cut in the wrong spot. Things don't line up right and we're still scratching our heads wondering what happened. At that point we add a spacer and have to cut a new mat and start over. I love framing but I hate eating mats for lunch! And yes I always leave a minimum of 1 1/2" to clear the rails and actually will leave a little more than what is required, just for this reason but it still happens. Other times following the same exact procedures it will work great?
 
I have the option to cut the outside and that does work but even that doesn't work everytime. I just wish I could find a solution that works each time we want to cut a v-groove. Maybe there is a simple answer that i'm just not seeing? Hope somebody out there can shed some light on it.
 
I'm having no problems cutting v-grooves, but I generally have the 8000 cut the outside dimensions too.

Good luck.
 
I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like you have the "Rail Dodge" option checked. That would add space to the left and bottom sides to avoid hitting the rails, necessitating re-centering the board with added strips or the like. You only need to use this if your borders are less than 1.5" wide, or if you only have a piece of the proper board which is too small to cut with the edges under the clamps.
If you have enough board in the cutter to have the machine cut the outside too, do so, but be sure that Rail Dodge is UNchecked. If the problem is only happening with v-grooves, perhaps you could use the Alignment screen to make sure that the V-groove opening is located where it should be, or you can "attach" a v-groove to an existing opening so they are always a consistent distance from one another.
:cool: Rick

(See, Gumby, now I'm playing teacher...:icon11:)
 
The other problem might be that you aren't properly aligning the cutting head before cutting your mat. Remember to move it all the way to the left, as far as it will go, when the computer prompts you.
 
I heard that if McCain wins the election, the laws will be changed to require CMCs to be aligned by moving the head all the way to the right.
:rolleyes: Rick
 
Rick and Paul,

Nope on both accounts? No rail dodge checked and the head has been aligned properly, we will wait to try aligining it all the way to the right though. Still baffled on this one. Again if it was a consistent problem it would be easier to figure out or at least compensate for. Thanks though any help is apppreciated!
 
Yes and we're all stumped? Talked to them today in fact but will call again the next time it happens and go through it again. I felt sure that someone else would have experienced this too but apparently not. I have ten years experiene working with Wizard and this is the only problem we've not been able to figure out. I cut very complicated designs on a daily basis and have very few problems and then all of the sudden a straight line v-groove becomes a problem...sometimes?
 
Re-reading your original post makes me focus again on the rail-dodge feature-- it just sounds so much like the way that's supposed to work. I wonder if it's possible that your copy of Mat Designer software has become corrupted somehow, causing the system to think you have chosen rail-dodge even when that isn't indicated on screen, and perhaps this is triggered by choosing some v-groove option or another. I'm just guessing here. Maybe you need to delete and reinstall the software? I'd ask the tech help folks about that.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Something worth trying !

Sounds like a rail Dodge issue to me also - Have you tried selecting the rail dodge option then deselecting it (hopefully fooling it into re-initialising the start point co-ordinates) ?

Might be worth a try I guess !
 
OzFramer said:
Sounds like a rail Dodge issue to me also - Have you tried selecting the rail dodge option then deselecting it (hopefully fooling it into re-initialising the start point co-ordinates) ?

Might be worth a try I guess !
Click to expand...

I appreciate the thought of it being the rail dodge because that does make the most sense, however that is not the problem, been there done that. Besides it may be off by as much as 1 1/2" or as little as 3/8" and only to the right never up? I guess it's just my little problem but thanks for the input anyway.:vomit:
 
Ok, given your last post, it reminds me of when I was training the woman that works with me ... she insisted she had the head all the way to the left, but I would come over and move it another 3/8 to 1/2" every time. There is apparently a spot that feels like it's done if you aren't giving it enough humph.

Try working out and see if the problem goes away ;)
 
Chris, Have you tried re installing the software. I am wondering if you might have 2 versions installed? Another thing that came to mind is that very early on Wizard had an issue if you had some other software installed on that computer.

Dave
 
Cliff Wilson said:
Ok, given your last post, it reminds me of when I was training the woman that works with me ... she insisted she had the head all the way to the left, but I would come over and move it another 3/8 to 1/2" every time. There is apparently a spot that feels like it's done if you aren't giving it enough humph.

Try working out and see if the problem goes away ;)
Click to expand...

Nope, trust me I've tried all the obvious problems. I've just about given up on ever figuring this one out. I have two 8000's they both do it, on occasion, and they don't do it with any regularity so we know it's not a computer glitch. It's not the head alignment or the rail dodge. All designs have been checked and re-checked. I've got ten years experience working with the Wizards and the man I have actually running the Wizards has almost four years here with me working on the Wizards. It sounds crazy but it happens...:icon45:
 
FrameMakers said:
Chris, Have you tried re installing the software. I am wondering if you might have 2 versions installed? Another thing that came to mind is that very early on Wizard had an issue if you had some other software installed on that computer.

Dave
Click to expand...

Well it was worth a shot but only one version loaded and it is 5.4 We actually have both Wizards on new computers and there aren't any other versions of Wizard anywhere on these machines.
 
You mention cutting complicated v-groove designs.
Are the problem designs from CADD or PathTrace?
Pay close attention to the mat size prompt when you cut or save in PathTrace.

Some of the software pieces still process the design 'from the back' due to legacy issues (i.e. all the CADD code).
One of the steps in coverting the design to cutting commands is mirroring the front cuts like v-grooves.
If the mat-width was off in the PathTrace prompt, the front cuts will be off.

I rarely cut from PathTrace, unless the design started in MatDesigner and it was a minor tweak.
All my CADD designs are saved as CutArt in PathTrace and then loaded into MatDesigner.
It's much easier the adjust borders and mirror the design in MatDesigner than it is in CADD or PathTrace.

Dave
 
Dave,

That actually did work better on the first test mat I tried but not on the second. Close but no cigar, although I do think that will solve some of the issues we're having. It is still strange though. The first test was a complex script font and it worked great. The seond test was a simple staight cut 8x10 with a v-groove around it and through two smaller openings under the 8x10. I tried evryway I could think of and it still came out with un-even borders. The design was dead-on and had the required 1 1/2" spacing for the rails so I'm still stupmed on this one. Thanks though this was the most helpful of all the remedies I've heard just not a cure all.
 
For what is worth I have two thoughts:

1 - The old Wizard 5000's had a 1-5/8" minimum margin on the left and the right. You might try staying with in this limit for your tests.

2 - The previous post said that you cut a very complex mat first and then the simple 8x10 test. Did you reset the head in between these tests? ALL of the current CMC's on the market today use stepper motor, except the Eclipse PRO. Stepper motors can loose position while cutting. You have most likely experience this in the extreme case when the head gets jammed on the mat and you hear a loud sound from the motors. However, this can happen one or two steps at a time, mostly in tight curves like in a font. These one or two step error can accumulate and make you cutting of for the next mat that gets cut. The error is hidden in the current job in the over cuts and the under cuts at the corners of the cuts. To eliminate this the F-6100 homes itself at the start of every mat, however a Wizard can not do this. You have to do this for it by aligning the head manually. Try aligning the cutting before every mat. The randomness of the error may be due the randomness in the types of mats that you are cutting one after the other.

As one Grumbler's tag line says: "Take what you can use and leave the rest".
 
Mark,

Thanks, we do re-align the head after each cut. You're right the motors will become misaligned after cutting tight curves. We've had that happen before and will occasionaly have to adjust the rotation on our machines to correct it. It may be though that the operator isn't actually doing what he tells me he's doing on some of these; however I have personally tried it and had the same problem. We are going to keep testing and hopefully we'll figure this out. If we do I will let everyone know what we find out. Thanks again.
 
One more thing: is your Wizard and its computer plugged into it's own outlet on a dedicated circuit breaker? Absolutely nothing else should be on the same circuit breaker that ANY CMC is plugged into. Your air compressor should absolutely NOT be plugged into the same circuit breaker.

I have seen shops with microwaves, refrigerators, TV's, woks, video games, air conditioners, chop saws, and hot presses plugged in to the same outlet as the CMC. These all draw current away from the CMC and cause electrical noise, disrupting the signals that control the motors - both stepper motors and servo motors.

This may not be your problem but others reading this thread may learn something here and save themselves from future problems.
 
MarkEatonLLC said:
One more thing: is your Wizard and its computer plugged into it's own outlet on a dedicated circuit breaker? Absolutely nothing else should be on the same circuit breaker that ANY CMC is plugged into. Your air compressor should absolutely NOT be plugged into the same circuit breaker.

I have seen shops with microwaves, refrigerators, TV's, woks, video games, air conditioners, chop saws, and hot presses plugged in to the same outlet as the CMC. These all draw current away from the CMC and cause electrical noise, disrupting the signals that control the motors - both stepper motors and servo motors.

This may not be your problem but others reading this thread may learn something here and save themselves from future problems.
Click to expand...
I do have two Wizards and their computers on the same circuit but I don't think anything else is on that circuit. We will have to check and see just to eliminate that possibility. Thanks.
 
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