Opinions Wanted using disc sander to adjuct 45 degree on frames

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Sure you can use a bench sander to tune up a mitre.

Problems are: making sure you have a true 45 degree jig in place to hold the moulding and taking off just the ever so slight amount of wood needed.

Most bench sanders rotate too fast and remove material very quickly.

This is why most will use a manual type sander.

You could make yourself a "Shooting board" using sand paper instead of a plane.
See http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting Up and Using a Shooting Board4.html

for and example.
 
I try to cut my miters true in the first place, and I seldom need a disc sander (nanual, of course!) If I find I need it it's usually a sign that the saw needs to be adjusted or the blade needs to be changed.

I did use it recently when the client supplied all the moulding for a project pre-chopped, and the miters were all about 0.1 degree out of true... He's talking about supplying me with length on future projects so I can do the chopping myself.
 
It's hard to get a jig just right..and an electric sander tends to take a little too much off, too quickly.

If you go the jig route, get a machine shop to make it for you and create a mount. They understand precision.
 
Another problem with bench sanders is that most are single-directional. For one side of the joint the sanding will be top-to-bottom, which will leave a relatively clean result on the visible side of the moulding. But the other side will be sanded bottom-to-top, which can chip and generally garbage up the surface of the moulding.

You might be OK with a giant, old-fashioned pedestal mounted sander with a reversible motor. The RPM's are low enough, and you can always turn it off and sand with nothing but the stored inertia as the wheel slows down even more. Also the table and slot are substantial enough for a nice V-shaped guide. The tables and slots on most table-tops are pretty shaky.

923-803.jpg
 
To continue, the cost of really good sander solution is high enough that you should just put the money in a really good saw or chopper to start with! When I moved on from my original DeWalt saws to a chopper and then real saws, my manual sander went into storage and never came out again.
 
more_so said:
To continue, the cost of really good sander solution is high enough that you should just put the money in a really good saw or chopper to start with! When I moved on from my original DeWalt saws to a chopper and then real saws, my manual sander went into storage and never came out again.
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Problem with that is that alot of what comes chopped from the distributors is a tad off and usually can benefit with a light sanding.

The ITW AMP hand cranked sander is what you need. It has adjustments in the fence for both directions.

 
framah said:
Problem with that is that alot of what comes chopped from the distributors is a tad off and usually can benefit with a light sanding.
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framah, do you mean to say you get non-straight sticks from your suppliers? I have never had that happen! :p

On the increasingly rare occasion when we clamp the entire frame up, we can sometimes fix that little problem by swapping pieces around a bit. But usually the solution is to massage the corners with a Japanese saw while the whole frame is still clamped up. Saves a whole bunch o' unclamp/reclamp steps that the sander requires. Much faster, by a lot.

But usually we go willy-nilly gluing-then-immediately-underpinning. When that last corner is looking really ugly, we clamp up just that corner and it's opposite, and once again out comes Japanese saw-san, for use only on #4 corner.

So basically a $180 set of clamps (that you probably already own) and a $19.95 Japanese saw (or even a good hacksaw) does the job of a $500 quality corner sander, and usually with less work.

Don't need no stinkin' rotary sanders! I rest my case.
 
I have an electric sander but I don't need to use it much. Most the time my chops from the mitre or saw are good but when I get the "slightly" warped and/or twisted moulding the sander is a godsend - I wouldn't want to be without my electric sander. I had the ITW-AMP manual sander and sold it to my framer friend when I got the electric sander.

Yes, you can sand to much off very easily but you can cut to much off with a saw or chop to much off with a chopper if you aren't careful and aren't paying attention. I believe the electric sander is a valuable piece of equipment in my shop and I do not have a problem with over sanding.

Right now you can purchase an electric sander on Skiline for $350.00 which I believe is less than a new ITW-AMP manual sander.

Lots of luck with your decision.
 
My manual sander is the best thing I ever bought. Wonderful for perfecting corners on moulding that I chopped and has pretty much eliminated any problems with chops I have ordered. The moulding companies would save a fortune in returns for bad cuts it they just ran them quickly in a sander before packing!
 
Nothing will beat a manual sander . . . unless you have a great shooting board and plane.

Thanks Mik for the website..... I had that years ago.... and with the new computer....

well, Thanks.
 
Yeah shooting boards are way cool blah blah blah. But truth be told they and their sander-schmander brethren are nothing more than band aids for a production pipeline that is BROKEN!

Look, if you're paying twice the cost of length for chops, and then you spend the time sanding that you could have spent chopping, your supplier is broken.

And if your own miters are so gruesome and wrongly angled that they need to be sanded, your mitering system is broken.

A routinely used sander is nothing more than the last link in a Rube Goldberg production system.

It really is possible to frame without sanding! Just takes a little maintenance here and there once in while. OK maybe there are a couple mouldings you want to take off the wall too, that's another story.

The only thing that wastes more time than sanding is puttying, and you shouldn't have to do either one of those more than once in a blue moon. And the next one of those won't happen until August 21, 2013. Assuming we ever get there.

Just sayin'.
 
more_so said:
Yeah shooting boards are way cool blah blah blah. But truth be told they and their sander-schmander brethren are nothing more than band aids for a production pipeline that is BROKEN!

Look, if you're paying twice the cost of length for chops, and then you spend the time sanding that you could have spent chopping, your supplier is broken.

And if your own miters are so gruesome and wrongly angled that they need to be sanded, your mitering system is broken.

A routinely used sander is nothing more than the last link in a Rube Goldberg production system.

It really is possible to frame without sanding! Just takes a little maintenance here and there once in while. OK maybe there are a couple mouldings you want to take off the wall too, that's another story.

The only thing that wastes more time than sanding is puttying, and you shouldn't have to do either one of those more than once in a blue moon. And the next one of those won't happen until August 21, 2013. Assuming we ever get there.

Just sayin'.
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Agreed. Pretty much never sand and rarely putty (hate some mouldings with non fresh blades sometimes). If it isn't right, you have a problem somewhere in the line.
 
more_so said:
Yeah shooting boards are way cool blah blah blah. But truth be told they and their sander-schmander brethren are nothing more than band aids for a production pipeline that is BROKEN!

Look, if you're paying twice the cost of length for chops, and then you spend the time sanding that you could have spent chopping, your supplier is broken.

And if your own miters are so gruesome and wrongly angled that they need to be sanded, your mitering system is broken.

A routinely used sander is nothing more than the last link in a Rube Goldberg production system.

It really is possible to frame without sanding! Just takes a little maintenance here and there once in while. OK maybe there are a couple mouldings you want to take off the wall too, that's another story.

The only thing that wastes more time than sanding is puttying, and you shouldn't have to do either one of those more than once in a blue moon. And the next one of those won't happen until August 21, 2013. Assuming we ever get there.

Just sayin'.
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Gruesome corner? Who said that? I'm happy to fine tune and make perfect. It was a simple answer to the OP's simple question - no need to make rather hostile assumptions on your part. Have a nice day.
 
In a perfect world you don't need a corner sander.

My world is far from perfect.

I love my Barton sander and it saves me time.

It's also useful for fine tuning fillets.

Doug
 
I have no idea what you mean by all the clamping required to sand a miter. On the manual sander I posted, there is no clamping required. You set it against the fence and give the wheel a few turns and you are done. I would have all eight ends sanded before you ever got thru sawing just one joint.

Your concept of time and how a job is done is seriously skewed.

Again, i'm not talking about what I chop, I'm talking about the chops that come from suppliers. Not all of them are exactly true and a couple of turns on the sander fixes that little problem.

Your way of resolving a corner gap is equivalent to major surgery compared to a quick visit to the Drs. office.

If I got in a moulding that was so badly warped that I needed to take a saw to the corner to make it work, I would send it back.

A routinely used sander, as you put it, is actually a good thing to have to give a miter the final touch that assures a nice closed joint, whereas using a saw to make a corner close is the REAL last link in a Rube Goldberg production system.

You are wasting WAY too much time hacking at the corner to make it fit when you can call the supplier and make THEM do it right. The usual reason the corners won't go together and you need to use a saw to make it work is that the piece or pieces are warped or bowed enough to make it not join. That is the suppliers problem and they need to make it right by sending straight pieces.
Check the pieces before you start joining to make sure they are flat and straight. If not, send them back and ask for good ones.

You do realize that when you put a saw thru a joint as you do, you are removing WAY more wood than the manual sander could ever remove?

While i'm sure you feel your way of doing things is right for you, i can feel pretty safe in saying that it isn't the most common method in the framing industry for making minor adjustments to a miter and is a serious waste of time.


...and that monster power sander on a stand you posted is the LAST thing a frame shop should ever use!

Just sayin'
 
Sorry framah, didn't mean to get you riled.

I try hard to lead a clean life. I keep my blades sharp and my fences clean and my clamps tight. The Miter Fairy likes me for this and generally waves her wand when I am cutting. She hardly ever makes me get out the Japanese saw. And I almost never make ragged cuts.

And I know a few non-OSHA-approved cutting tricks for when those twisted-sister mouldings show up, 'nuff said.

My mostly 3 to 4.2 inch mouldings with 6 foot sides are sander averse. The Japanese saw is simply a more efficient tool for me than than the sander. Shoulda said that. When I have big warpy sticks I need to clamp anyway to see where I am, the saw saves me loading and unloading the pieces several times which I would have to do with a sander. With the saw I can fix things right there in the clamps, which is a time saver.

We're really talking two different jobs for the sanders. There's Clean Up Cuts, and then there's Fix The Stupid Angle!

If you cut your own moulding, Clean Up Cuts just goes away with good technique, which is 99% in our control. All complaints in this department should be addressed to ourselves.

It's Fix The Stupid Angle that makes us get out the cutting/sanding tools, and for my size of frames the Japanese saw is the best answer.

The pedestal sander picture was not too serious, was trying to demonstrate the need for a bidirectional disc. However, anybody who has ever used one of those 20+ inch, low velocity sanders knows how wonderful they really are. I wouldn't go out and buy one, but if I had one in the shop I might use it. It would actually be excellent for snazzing up chops. The huge, stable, cast iron platforms and tight miter slots are to die for compared to the table top units, and the sanding discs last forever, almost.
 
My response to the OP is yes, we sometimes use our ITW/AMP miter sander. As you can see, there are a lot of opinions here on TPFG. Like most of us, you will learn to weed through most of the "flaw boards" and find that precious yet rare bit of helpful info.
 
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