Use Hoffman. What is the appropriate key in 8mm stem?

[ijaein]

Use Hoffman. What is the appropriate key in 8mmstem?

Currently, we are using w0 key and testing on MDF molding.
Previously, only maple wood and walnut were used, but Hoffman will also be used for the newly released mdf frame product.The previous plan was to use a power twist pin, but the MDF corner is broken on the thin stem.

Hoffman Dovetail was difficult to mass-produce, so I was going to use a pin, but it's actually difficult. In a way, IKEA is amazing.

If I go back to the question, would the w1 key fit better? I'm curious.

 

[alacrity8]

I'm new to the Hoffman.
On a 8mm Hardwood stem, I would use a w0 key.
I would not trust an 8mm MDF stem moudling with any joining method.

 

[ijaein]

나는 Hoffman을 처음 사용합니다.
8mm 하드우드 스템에서는 w0 키를 사용합니다.
나는 어떤 결합 방법으로도 8mm MDF 스템 몰딩을 신뢰하지 않을 것입니다

 

[ijaein]

I'm new to the Hoffman.
On a 8mm Hardwood stem, I would use a w0 key.
I would not trust an 8mm MDF stem moudling with any joining method.

thanks for reply. i like to try 8mm stem mdf moulding.

 

[wpfay]

W-0 for anything that narrow, though, technically a W-1 will fit, it just uses up too much of the gluing surfaces IMHO.

You are gluing, aren't you? What kind of glue, and is it specifically made for mdf?

 

[ijaein]

W-0 for anything that narrow, though, technically a W-1 will fit, it just uses up too much of the gluing surfaces IMHO.

You are gluing, aren't you? What kind of glue, and is it specifically made for mdf?

Oh..wpfay thank you always. You're saying that w1 is technically more suitable, right? I'm just using Gorilla Bond. It'll be okay, right?

 

[wpfay]

No, not at all. I said it will fit, that doesn't mean it is appropriate with mdf. Mdf doesn't have the same linear strength as wood.
The W-0 is the right size for that width frame.
There are specific glues for mdf, but Gorilla is not one I know about, though I am aware of their products.
Mdf reacts to the amount of water in the glue and can expand, weakening the structural integrity.
I don't use or specifically like mdf frame components, so you might be better off doing your own research.

 

[artfolio]

I am with Alacrity on this: In my humble opinion whatever joining method is used an 8mm MDF moulding is too thin for anything bigger than an 8" x 10" and that may be pushing it. MDF has nothing like the strength of timber or even poly and would probably distort with v nails.

 

[ijaein]

No, not at all. I said it will fit, that doesn't mean it is appropriate with mdf. Mdf doesn't have the same linear strength as wood.
The W-0 is the right size for that width frame.
There are specific glues for mdf, but Gorilla is not one I know about, though I am aware of their products.
Mdf reacts to the amount of water in the glue and can expand, weakening the structural integrity.
I don't use or specifically like mdf frame components, so you might be better off doing your own research.

Thank you for a really good answer. In the test, w0 this worked well. However, I want to test the w1 key, but I have to buy it overseas. Thank you for the really good answer and I'll look for glue.

 

[ijaein]

I am with Alacrity on this: In my humble opinion whatever joining method is used an 8mm MDF moulding is too thin for anything bigger than an 8" x 10" and that may be pushing it. MDF has nothing like the strength of timber or even poly and would probably distort with v nails.

Right, vnail is really perverse. I think we need to find a stable way.

 

[alacrity8]

Right, vnail is really perverse. I think we need to find a stable way.

In my experience, glue is more important to the bond of a frame corner than the joining method.

Using a Hoffman Key on such a small frame removes much of the glue surface, unless you have a glue that works well to join the Key to the wood.

Wood Glue can work well on MDF, if it is clamped well for an extended period of time. It may swell the MDF. It does not work well on plastic keys.

Gorilla Glue is an expanding foam glue. It works well on wood, stone, metal, ceramic, foam, glass, concrete and much more. (from their website)
Also from their website: Gorilla Glue will work well on many types of plastic; however, we do not recommend for use on polypropylene (PP) or polyethylene (PE) plastics or any type of rubber with high oil or plasticizer content.
I am unsure what type of plastic is used to make the Hoffman Keys.
The expanding foam can be tricky to work with cleanly.
One surface needs to be dampened, which may swell the MDF. The glue will expand like spray foam leaving a mess.

Cyanoacrylate/CA Glue/ Super Glue may be your best bet.

 

[ijaein]

In my experience, glue is more important to the bond of a frame corner than the joining method.

Using a Hoffman Key on such a small frame removes much of the glue surface, unless you have a glue that works well to join the Key to the wood.

Wood Glue can work well on MDF, if it is clamped well for an extended period of time. It may swell the MDF. It does not work well on plastic keys.

Gorilla Glue is an expanding foam glue. It works well on wood, stone, metal, ceramic, foam, glass, concrete and much more. (from their website)
Also from their website: Gorilla Glue will work well on many types of plastic; however, we do not recommend for use on polypropylene (PP) or polyethylene (PE) plastics or any type of rubber with high oil or plasticizer content.
I am unsure what type of plastic is used to make the Hoffman Keys.
The expanding foam can be tricky to work with cleanly.
One surface needs to be dampened, which may swell the MDF. The glue will expand like spray foam leaving a mess.

Cyanoacrylate/CA Glue/ Super Glue may be your best bet.

That's a lot of information! I gained new knowledge. A ca/super blue might suit MDF better than a woodworking bond. I'll test it tomorrow right away tomorrow. Thank you so much.

 

[artfolio]

If you really want to use this MDF moulding I would suggest the best way of joining it would be to glue it in a corner clamp using a specific MDF glue, give it 24 hours or so to get the best bond possible then drill the corners through the top and bottom faces and insert small moulding pins for backup. Fudge over the nail holes with a suitable filler and the job is done.

With so much faffing around I really think using a better quality timber moulding would be preferable even if it costs a bit more.

 

[David Waldmann]

Thank you for a really good answer. In the test, w0 this worked well. However, I want to test the w1 key, but I have to buy it overseas. Thank you for the really good answer and I'll look for glue.

You are of course, welcome to try the W1, BUT I can guarantee that you will not like it. W1 on hardwood is pushing your luck, and MDF has nowhere near the structural integrity of hardwood. In my testing I found that the W0 joint was TWICE as strong as W1 in a hardwood (Maple) 8mm stem.

And I agree with alacrity8 that 8mm in MDF is a disaster waiting to happen regardless of joining method (on anything but very small frames).

 

[ijaein]

If you really want to use this MDF moulding I would suggest the best way of joining it would be to glue it in a corner clamp using a specific MDF glue, give it 24 hours or so to get the best bond possible then drill the corners through the top and bottom faces and insert small moulding pins for backup. Fudge over the nail holes with a suitable filler and the job is done.

With so much faffing around I really think using a better quality timber moulding would be preferable even if it costs a bit more.

I also thought about that method, but isn't it impossible to use a router with molding combined in Hoffman machine?


And first, mass production is hard, so I have to give up whether it works or not.

 

[ijaein]

You are of course, welcome to try the W1, BUT I can guarantee that you will not like it. W1 on hardwood is pushing your luck, and MDF has nowhere near the structural integrity of hardwood. In my testing I found that the W0 joint was TWICE as strong as W1 in a hardwood (Maple) 8mm stem.

And I agree with alacrity8 that 8mm in MDF is a disaster waiting to happen regardless of joining method (on anything but very small frames).

I always admire your Instagram. Professional spray booths and the best paint quality. a glorious finish I'm always enjoying it.

First of all, the mdf 8mmstem looks much stronger than IKEA.

I need to find some proper mdf glue. If I put a bit of pressure on it, the molding won't feat. gorila bond.

 

[David Waldmann]

First of all, the mdf 8mmstem looks much stronger than IKEA.

I don't know what IKEA is. I mean, I know there's a store, but that doesn't tell me what the material is. If it's particle board, sure - MDF is way stronger. On a scale of 1 to 10 where particle board is a 1 and Maple a 10, I would put MDF at a 2 for this type of application.

 

[ijaein]

I don't know what IKEA is. I mean, I know there's a store, but that doesn't tell me what the material is. If it's particle board, sure - MDF is way stronger. On a scale of 1 to 10 where particle board is a 1 and Maple a 10, I would put MDF at a 2 for this type of application.

IKEA makes frames using mdf.
I've analyzed it and found that it's not durable, but it's a good-looking frame in large quantities, making it easy for consumers to buy it.
I don't want anything to do with MapleStrength. However, I think the size a1 will be much stronger than the IKEA frame production method.