Unhealthy competition

[khooengtheng]

There are about 15 framing shops in our town. You know what? the framers never talk with each other and treat each other as enemy.
Sometimes they would even accusing each others!

When I was just starting the framing business, I think I am the first person who made the first move and tried talk to few of them see if we could work together to encounter any problems that we may facing in our industry. When I approached, I was not welcomed at all as most of them thought I was spying their shop!!!

Few years back, when I was away for vacation, one of the framer from the opposide street came to borrow portfoilio album from my staff(my past framing work sample's photo). This guy is very cunning and he told my newly engaged asistant that I allowed him to borrow it. After made his way out, he photocopy the whole album and kept in his shop. One of my regular customer told me that he shows this album to her and claimed that they are his works. When I confronted him about this, he denied everthings.

Anyway, I forgave about his bad behaviour and now I start another new album. I told him that he could never steal ideas from my brains!!

 

[PaulSF]

I'm fiercely competitive, and I keep track of everything, but I don't resort to dirty tricks. Well, except when I gave the new Larson Juhl delivery guy incorrect directions to Michaels!

 

[khooengtheng]

you want funny...see what..

Well, except when I gave the new Larson Juhl delivery guy incorrect directions to Michaels!

hhmmmnn.... good idea!

As me... I always recommend certain customers (those who always ask for discount...and complaining about the price) to a frame shop which is doing horrible jobs...the owner is also a bad temper old man!

 

[JRB]

There is an old adage, I can not recall the exact wording, it is something about copying someone else's work or person is one the highest forms of flattery.

I have an artist friend that told me that years ago. He specializes in painting large florals. He has an amazing technique, and it is downright fascinating watching him work. He is also one heck of a showman with a great sense of humor. People pay serious money to attend one of his demonstrations or classes. He has in own TV show on public television.

Anyway this guy has always taught people exactly how to paint the same as himself. He does not hold back anything. OK, I remember it now, "Imitation is the surest form of flattery." His feeling is that the more stuff out there that looks like his, will only increase his own popularity. He told me these things back in the 1960s.

He lives up in Carson City, Val knows him. His name is Gary Jenkins, another one of the good guys, who has done very well for himself over the years. Time has proved him right.

John

 

[FrameProSA]

Competition

I am in South Africa - you can fit 8 SA's into 1 USA - so we are much smaller... but here I also found it is each framer to him/herself.

No doubt we all want to out perform the competitor, but are you willing still to share some tips with the local competitor - or only non-local framers?

Is there any way in which I can see which grumblers are SA based?

 

[Paul Cascio]

There are about 15 framing shops in our town. You know what? the framers never talk with each other and treat each other as enemy.
Sometimes they would even accusing each others!

I see thing are not much different in Malaysia than they are here. I ran into the same problem last year when I floated my plan for coop advertising. A number of framers tried to venture out to put local groups together and the reception was similar to what you experienced.

You did the right thing in attempting to become friends. At least now you know who your enemies are.

Why so many frameshops near you, are you in a resort area?

 

[Bill Henry-]

Hey FrameProSA,

Welcome to The Grumble.

I’m not 100% sure of this, but if you click on the Member List at the top of this page you will be presented with an overwhelming number of members.

On the top of the right column, click on the Search Members link. When you get a little dialog box, choose Advanced instead of the regular input field.

Once you’re in the Advanced page, choose the “Location” field and type in “South Africa” or “SA” or whatever you feel might be used by some of your countrymen (or, yes, to be politically correct) countrywomen.

With enough patience you should be able to pull up some names.

I seem to recall that there may be five or so Grumblers from your neck of the woods – or should I say, baobab tree.

BTW: I might suggest that you flesh out your profile a little to let us know a bit more about you.

 

[ArmyFramer]

I too had the same type of problem with local framers. I was upset at the time and have learned to just let it go. Just because they have a picture of the work does not mean they know how you did it. Let them try to recreate one of your harder designs, when it does not look the same they can answer to the customer. Karma is a B$%#@.

Remember the Law of Three,
Whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negitive, will be returned to that person threefold.

 

[khooengtheng]

I live in Penang, a small island located in north of peninsular Malaysia. The island is also near to southern Thailand. 20 years ago, it was a very popular tourist destination. They called this island Pearl of Orient, a tropical island full of beautiful beaches and rich culture, now the island is almost over developed..as nobody seems to care about the island, the pearl lost its shine!

Yeah, there are many frame shops here although this is just a small city. But most of them are not really specialize in framing. They do aluminium and glass business as well. ( demand of framing is not that much over here! so it is difficult to sustain the business if someone just concentrade only in custom framing business.)

 

[Couture's Gallery]

are the women still unusually beautiful on Penang ?, I remember that the island had some of the most beautiful French and Polenesian mixture women. I was over there on R&R in 1968 (from Nam) and fell in love with the island and the people ( especially the ladies).

 

[Pangolin]

There are four other frame shops with less than a mile of mine. My shop was the first around here (I'm told it open around 1963 or so - I'm the 4th owner) but for some reason others sprouted up.

I doubt the other shops really want to have anything to do with each other. I do have one shop far enough away not to be competition that goes in with me on bigger order from united so we split the shipping, but that's about all cooperation I'll get from anyone.

(It doesn't help that the previous owner of my place was a horses @## and lots of people really hated him, so I'm battling the bad image and trying to let customers know there is a new owner, but it's an uphill battle.)

 

[jim_p]

Guess I'm lucky... There are three frame shops within two blocks in my downtown, and we all help each other out ("Got any 32x40 UV glass?" or "I only need a couple matboards this week, can I piggyback on your supplier order?").

Don't get me wrong, we have our rivalries as well but we figure we're all in this together. In the Arab world there's a saying: "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the infidel". Only in this case, it's "Me and my competitor against the big box"

 

[Val]

There is an old adage....

I have an artist friend that told me that years ago. He specializes in painting large florals. He has an amazing technique, and it is downright fascinating watching him work. He is also one heck of a showman with a great sense of humor. People pay serious money to attend one of his demonstrations or classes. He has in own TV show on public television.

Anyway this guy has always taught people exactly how to paint the same as himself. He does not hold back anything. OK, I remember it now, "Imitation is the surest form of flattery." His feeling is that the more stuff out there that looks like his, will only increase his own popularity. He told me these things back in the 1960s.

He lives up in Carson City, Val knows him. His name is Gary Jenkins, another one of the good guys, who has done very well for himself over the years. Time has proved him right.

John

I knew right away that's who you were referring to, John! Gary is, in fact, the "new" Bob Ross now. Different style, but his own style, nonetheless. I have one of his paintings hanging in my home studio, very different for him, that someone dared him to paint something besides great big flowers. He grabbed a blank canvas, scrummbled up some paint, dab-dab, whisk-whisk, and the most beautiful painting of storm coulds....just dark sky and dark, angry orange and black clouds, that I've ever seen. He signed it with the stickend of his paintbrush, in the wet paint, said "There! I can, too!"and tossed it away at someone and many years later, I ended up with it. I prize it. He doesn't remember that, but we do, and his signature proves it.

I have listened in on many of his week-long workshops when I worked at the frame/art supply shop he gave them in....folks paid big bucks and came in from all over the country to learn how to copy his style of painting and then go out and teach the Gary Jenkins Method. You'll find him on PBS, giving painting classes, ala Bob R., but with a "little" different flair! He's huge in Europe now! I see great things coming for Gary and his wife, Catherine, long-time coming and well-deserved. It isn't so much the style of his paintings that people seem to love, but the way he teaches it and helps them find the passion in making art.

He makes money on encouraging people to copy him!

Oops...slight frankenthread there, but the message is still the same. I must admit, though, that my design-counter portfolio has a couple images of some Grumblers' framing examples of what can be done, and not necessarily what I have done, and I state so.

 

[RParrish]

In A2 we have around 14 to 18 shops operating, for the most part we are friendly, one shop is owned by my best friend, we started out in a college book store that did framing, stood in each others weddings. We are the closest competiton to one another and we are still on great terms and help each other regularly. He does low end poster framing, I do high end work, so that works out, otherwise I'd have to run him into the ground like the others, joking of course.
No bad blood here I am happy to say.

 

[Bill Henry-]

In the last twenty years, there have been what I would call six competitors in my area. There is only one left. I will do what I can to try to grab my fair share (and then some) from our market, but I won’t stoop to stealing ideas or torching their shop.

Every time I hear of a new shop in the area, I try to stop by and introduce myself. Certainly, I’m scoping out my competition, but it is a friendly encounter. Except for one jerk (who went belly up about 10 years ago), all of us have had cordial relations.

If I need an “emergency” mat, I’ll call her up. If she has it, she’ll sell it to me at cost plus 20%.

If she needs an oval cut, I’ll do it for her. A flat charge of $4.

It only makes sense to me to be friendly. It seems to me to be good business.

Plus, it keeps them off balance.

 

[kdub]

"Me and my competitor against the big box"

That's how I see it. I've helped other small framers in a jam and they've helped me. I won't give my secrets away but I also won't do anything nasty to jeopardize their business. I don't need to burn any bridges. This is a small industry and you never know who you'll end up working with/for in the future.

 

[Framecrazy]

I know two framers who have both gone out of their way to help me get started. They have offered some much advice, connections, materials that I could have never done it without them.

Catch is, they hate each other.

 

[FrameProSA]

Thanks Bill
I updated my profile a bit. Can't find any South African's on site... but will keep a look out!
Thanks for the help!

 

[Franny]

Shooting Ourselves in the Foot....

I applaud the "imitation is the purest form of flattery" outlook here. Anybody who knows me, will tell you I'd give my right arm to anybody who needed it. I wouldn't know how to "hold something back" from anyone with a curiosity for knowledge of any type...I have a wide range of experience.

I have a good friend that has a 25 years+ business selling, producing and installing custom closets. She is the president of the Closet Association along with the Interior Design Association. She claims these groups have helped her to meet her personal and financial goals. I believe her. Strength in numbers. By closing ourselves off from each other, we do ourselves a great dis-service. It doesn't matter where you are...on what continent, this kind of behavior runs rampent. It is way too bad. The cream always rises to the top and being a newbie with a passion for what I do, I just remind myself of that several times a day. It isn't easy, but nothing worth attaining ever is.

 

[Luddite]

I applaud the "imitation is the purest form of flattery" outlook here. Anybody who knows me, will tell you I'd give my right arm to anybody who needed it. I wouldn't know how to "hold something back" from anyone with a curiosity for knowledge of any type...I have a wide range of experience.

I have a good friend that has a 25 years+ business selling, producing and installing custom closets. She is the president of the Closet Association along with the Interior Design Association. She claims these groups have helped her to meet her personal and financial goals. I believe her. Strength in numbers. By closing ourselves off from each other, we do ourselves a great dis-service. It doesn't matter where you are...on what continent, this kind of behavior runs rampent. It is way too bad. The cream always rises to the top and being a newbie with a passion for what I do, I just remind myself of that several times a day. It isn't easy, but nothing worth attaining ever is.

I have the same sort of reputation....I`ll tell anyone wher to find anything.I HATE unanswered questions!!I have come up on artists that have some neat materials being used(like feathers,gems,certain types of fabrics/canvases,etc).=,but will NOT divulge the source!My philosophy is:Even if I gave you every component of what I have made,here....You won`t duplicate it,no two people work the same,so why not share....You may have something I want to learn. L.