Unhappy Customers & Guarantee

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TGFU

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
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317
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Illinois
I was just reading Kirstie's thread on the overlapping leaf marks on the frame (as well as Ellen's post) and it made me wonder what types of guarantees you fellow grumblers offer customers that are unhappy with their piece when they pick it up. I'm not referring to quality of materials or workmanship guarantees here. I'm referring to a guarantee for unhappy with the design, frame, matting, colors, or just plain unhappy with how the end product looks. This is assuming that they agreed to the choices before placing the order, of course. Do you offer a certain % off new materials, or is the redo free? Do labor or fitting charges apply on the reorder? Do they have to bring it back within a certain time period of picking it up for any guarantees to apply?

Mike, This might be a better poll, than a thread??? I tried to search the archives for threads on this subject, but couldn't find one. If you know of one, please let me know so we don't have to repeat the same thing over again.

Thanks!
 
TGFU said:
I was just reading Kirstie's thread on the overlapping leaf marks on the frame (as well as Ellen's post) and it made me wonder what types of guarantees you fellow grumblers offer customers that are unhappy with their piece when they pick it up. I'm not referring to quality of materials or workmanship guarantees here. I'm referring to a guarantee for unhappy with the design, frame, matting, colors, or just plain unhappy with how the end product looks. This is assuming that they agreed to the choices before placing the order, of course. Do you offer a certain % off new materials, or is the redo free? Do labor or fitting charges apply on the reorder? Do they have to bring it back within a certain time period of picking it up for any guarantees to apply?

Mike, This might be a better poll, than a thread??? I tried to search the archives for threads on this subject, but couldn't find one. If you know of one, please let me know so we don't have to repeat the same thing over again.

Thanks!
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We will change the product once at no charge unless the new materials would have resulted in a higher bill to begin with, and then we charge the difference. I believe that having a customer stuck with a product that they are dissapointed with is more costly than doing what it takes to give them something they love. We hardly ever have to use this policy, and when we do it's usually switching a mat color, but when we do MAN are they appreciative.



Usually.
 
Our policy is much the same as johnny's. We want our customer to be happy with the end product. Right now, we have an issue with a very expensive closed corner frame from New York. If it comes to it, we will refund our customers deposit of $900.00. The company has already refinished it at no charge and shipped it back to us. Now there is a small hairline crack in one miter. Our customer is in Euroland, so all we can do is wait.

It makes no sense to spend a bundle on advertising and then blow it for a few hundred dollars in materials. It's better to spend the money and keep em happy.

Our whole thing is to be a better place to shop than a big box, right?


John
 
We not only guarantee our work, but we have a certificate that says so. It goes in every order.

We also will do one "re-do" on any mat or frame that is not what the customer expected. It probably happens once a year. But to be able to say to the customer when they are waffling over a design "our designs are guaranteed. If you don't like it when it is finished we will redo it." is a very potent sales tool. (and yes, if they pick a more expensive frame the second time, they pay the difference)

I can remember right off the bat the last two years' redos. Last year it was a woman who (with the Integrated framer!) wanted 5" mats on her photos. We tried to tell her that the photos were dwarfed, but to no avail. When she picked them up, she was shocked at how wide the mats were. So we cut it all down and reassembled at no charge.

The year before was one of those Civil War humongous prints. It was a night scene, so we put dark mats on it. When the customer got it home it looked, she said, like a dark hole above her fireplace. So we redid the mats at no charge to light colored ones. She hated THOSE when she got them home. So we redid the mats a third time to an intermediate tone. She paid for those mats, but only the mats... no charge for disassembly, reassemlbly. Guess she was happy this time, because she didn't bring it back. Or else she took it somewhere else....
 
I don't have a set policy but I haven't had any redo's in the almost four years I've been open as a one man shop. I'd like to think that I haven't had any unhappy customers but I don't know ...only hope someone would speak up or I could read them if they were not happy.

The customers I have that won't help choose and just say "frame it" leaving the design up to me I always ask them to please tell me if they are ever unhappy. So far they've all continued to come back.

I aim to please so I suppose if there ever is a problem I would do whatever it takes to keep them satisfied.
 
If I believe a customer is genuinely unhappy with something I will change it for free or for a reduced cost, depending on what is involved.

I had one only last week - a canvas around 600 x 800 with a small limewashed slip and a broad (100mm) flat square frame. The customer and his wife had taken nearly an hour to settle on the design and when he came in to collect it he looked at it and said, "Is that the right frame?" This frame only comes in one colour but it is hand-finished and when I checked it against the sample there was a colour variation so slight I could barely notice it.

After agonising over it he agreed to take it home and live with it for at least a week then we'd see how he felt. (This is not a bad trick, by the way - the light level at home is probably far less than in our showrooms).

So far, so good but I will 'phone him in a few days just to make sure everything is o.k. with the missus.
 
Dave said:
The customers I have that won't help choose and just say "frame it" leaving the design up to me I always ask them to please tell me if they are ever unhappy. So far they've all continued to come back.
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I've only had one that wasn't happy with my "Just frame it nice" choice. His District Court certificate (attorney). Nice dignified wood frame, double matted. Came in to pick it up and said "Oh no! I don't 'do wood', it's too distracting! I have to have metal!" (Other projects I did for him were wood mouldings, so go figure!) I changed it at no charge, and have since used the wood frame on something else, but I no longer let him drop and run, he has to go through the agonizing choose-your-own-darn-frame routine with me now. I have three large wedding shadowbox projects in the planning stages for him (gifts to clients/friends), all "just do your thing, Val", but nothing will be ordered without his "approval" of the layout, moulding and cost. I want no surprises on those!
 
I do love the affirmation and freedom to design when customers say "just frame it", but I tend to spend far more time making sure the design is perfect for the work and sometimes leave it to ponder over several days before finally making a choice.
 
I can't think of any other industry that is so willing to rework a custom product at no charge. Can you? I recently got a chair reupholstered with a fabric that I picked out, and drapes made with fabric that I picked out. I'm really not happy with my decision, now that everything is set in the room. But, I wouldn't think of calling these businesses and asking them to redo the work at their expense. After all, I made the decision.
 
TGFU said:
...I wouldn't think of calling these businesses and asking them to redo the work at their expense. After all, I made the decision.
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The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what YOU or I would do, or what is ethically right that matters. What matters is that perception is reality, and some people seem to think that you (as the trained, certified, and in some cases, certifiable, professional) should have been able to see inside their little brain and know what it was they actually wanted, not what they ordered.

If you're going to make a bad customer into a good one you've got to make them not only happy, but ecstatic. Such a case is often a great opportunity. However, sometimes that customer falls into the "lower right quadrant" (per recent article by William Parker in Decor), and it may be an opportunity to selectively cull your customer list.
 
Can't agree with you more, Jim.

If you pick out a paint color and have a contractor come in and paint your house and you decide you don't like the color will he repaint it for free? Will any contractor redo a job if you don't like the material or color choice?

I just listened to a podcast about the US Coast Guard revamping 14 boats in their fleet making them longer and upgrading equipment. They spent over $ 14,000,000.00 of our tax dollars subcontracting out to two defense contractors. The work was bumbled so badly that the ships are not even seaworthy let alone the fact that the radios installed weren't waterproof and 4 failed in testing because it rained!!!

The only use of these ships would be to give them to a third world country for river use to erase our Ugly American image ...but they are afraid they would sink in the voyage to be delivered.

Two years later there has been no accountability and no compensation from the contractors for their incompetence.
 
David N Waldmann said:
...some people seem to think that you (as the trained, certified, and in some cases, certifiable, professional) should have been able to see inside their little brain and know what it was they actually wanted, not what they ordered.

...and it may be an opportunity to selectively cull your customer list.
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How much are we charging for these professional design services?

:icon11:

David, I can't agree more with you that sometimes you have to fire a customer if repeatedly nothing you do pleases them. Some folks will take advantage of us, but then ...they can't if we don't let them.
 
I help the customer when it comes to selecting the mat(s), glass, frame, etc. If they don't like it, they KNOW it is because of what THEY chose, not me. ajh

(Rarely, but when a customer does not like something THEY chose, they say something like, for example, "I wish i would have picked a lighter mat as the top mat instead of a dark mat.") :sleep:
 
We have a written guarantee that says we will change mats or moulding within 30 days, charging only for the difference of materials.

I believe it is very important to have a written policy available for all to see. Years ago, before we posted our policy, a couple of customers assumed that we would change anything at least a couple of times at no charge. The rationale goes something like this: "Well, it is hard to decide and it's easy for you to change it, right?"

We have a re-do request once a year or so, but we avoid that by educating customers and discouraging snap decisions. We want each customer to OWN the frame design they are buying. That is, the choices are known to be theirs during the design process. We also want them to realize that it's considerable work to frame something, and even more work to take it apart and do it again.
 
We also have a guarantee, if the customer is not happy with their choice we will swap out mats, if the new one costs more then they pay the difference. I only will do it once that way, then I will only charge them cost of new materials. I have only used it a few times as well. I think it puts the customer at ease if they know they can fix it if they hate it, so they are more likely to place the order.
 
I'll let customers take moulding and mat samples home ...even encourage it if they are waffling. I just write them down to keep track of them and have always had them returned with no problems.

With bigger jobs that are local I'll go to their home with the samples to make sure they are happy. It often pays back with considerable more work.

Maybe this is why I haven't had such a problem.

:shrug:
 
Our policy is/was/shall always be "If our sticker is on the back, it's guaranteed against any defects in workmanship". If they don't like the mat color they picked out, we'll charge for a new mat, but not for a refit.
 
I've got one in right now ... She loved it in the store, took it home and the "not matching corners" (its a deep design carved moulding) are driving her nuts. She picked out a replacement "flatter" moulding -- no charge.

We want the customer happy and telling their friends their happy!

If she picked one that was more money she would have had to pay the difference in cost, but not the labor.

I'd say things like this happen once or twice a year.

Like JRB (I think?) said, we spend a lot to get a customer. A few hundred dollars to keep one and get them to say good things about you is priceless!
 
Got one in yesterday that was done by the former owner. Some of the Fletcher points had come loose and floating around the front of the L/E print.

Disassemble, clean glass and refit. No biggy. She asked what the charge is, I said "none". She said, "Why not? You didn't do the work." I said no, but my shop sticker is on the back, and this shop guarantees it's work.

It's the little things, as well as the BIG ones, and we must be flexible, without letting ourselves get walked on.

On the other hand, not long ago I tried and tried to convince a woman that the yellow mat she insisted on would be too bright for her 3prints and too much yellow against her yellow walls. Even noted it on the work order and told her, if you realize that's too much yellow and change your mind, it will be at your cost. She said Oh it'll be fine!! Her husband came in with her to pick them up and said "Whoa! That's a lot of yellow on our yellow walls!" She said it'll be fine, we'll just take them home and see. They came back the next day and we added two more mats to each one. Her cost.

Sometimes you just shouldn't give it away. I didn't charge her a dissasemble/assemble (I-told-you-so charge) charge though. Her last words to me out the door..."I promise I'll listen to you from now on."
 
:thumbsup:Priceless!.....

I have to admit, I had to resist the temptation to say" Neener-neener-neener, I told ya so!"

Her husband said it for me!! Ha!!
 
I will usually just eat the cost of the mats, and/or moulding and redo it if the customer is unhappy with their choice. It only happens once or twice a year, if that often. I feel that it is a small price to pay to keep a customer happy and coming back in.
The exception was one customer a few years ago, who brought back a frame three times because of tiny, and I mean tiny chips on the bottom corner. When they turned their nose up at the third redo, I just took the frame apart, gave them back the artwork, refunded the deposit, and said as nicely as I could, "I don't think I can please you, perhaps another frame shop can."
Bill
Ocean Art
 
surferbill said:
I just took the frame apart, gave them back the artwork, refunded the deposit,
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...and what satisfaction there is to doing that! It usually sets the customer back on his heels darn fast. I have had some go "no, no, that's OK." Almost did it the other day. Hope they NEVER come back!
 
Well, I just finished a redo on a burlwood frame with fillet. The customer had brought it back because there was a noticeable "ding" in the frame. It turned out to not be a ding so much as it was just the way burl looks! But she was bothered by it, so I told her I'd redo it. I ordered a new length for the long sides, recut and joined the frame (with the fillet), and darn it if there isn't a smaller version of the same kind of ding that brought her back before!
 
PaulSF said:
Well, I just finished a redo on a burlwood frame with fillet. The customer had brought it back because there was a noticeable "ding" in the frame. It turned out to not be a ding so much as it was just the way burl looks! But she was bothered by it, so I told her I'd redo it. I ordered a new length for the long sides, recut and joined the frame (with the fillet), and darn it if there isn't a smaller version of the same kind of ding that brought her back before!
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No good deed goes unpunished! ;)
Bill
 
EllenAtHowards said:
...and what satisfaction there is to doing that! It usually sets the customer back on his heels darn fast. I have had some go "no, no, that's OK." Almost did it the other day. Hope they NEVER come back!
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A billion years ago, when I had very dark hair.. we had a lady order a closed corner.... but she brought in a brocade throw pillow to match the color and look. :thumbsup: :eek:

It match alright... the wrong side of the pillow..... the masking tape around what she wanted and what they matched was still in place.... she insisted that SHE had ordered the green on the other side. So with out hesitation my boss called me up and asked me to bring my tool kit. I dismounted her picture and handed it to him.. he handed it to her then quickly grabbed my larger hammer and smashed up the frame. She was horror stricken. :D

He sweetly said, "here, let me write down the name and address of a frame shop who might be more accommodating". It was about 50 miles away.... and he knew that she had been fired from most of the frame shops in the area.

Several years later she walked into the shop I was managing.... she just stood for about a minute trying to make up her mind whether to run or not..... she turned out to be a customer to love. "Just do it" and she brought lots of her girl friends in with their work... all the while gushing how she and I went way back for just AGES. :D
 
I'm getting better at this problem after spending over 1/2 my life in this business. Customer control is the issue. When selling a frame that's a chop and hand finished to boot you bet I will tell them that the finish will be slightly different. If they are picky I will drive that point home. Hand finished = variations, that's part of the sales process. Now if I sell it right and the look meets my approval it's rarer than rare that the customer won't like it and want to redo something. I can't remember it recent history, 10+ years that anyone wanted a total redo. I will work with the client in those cases and redo for free when approprate. Now when I get a lady that bring in her colors and fabric with her art ( side note I've never had a him with colors and fabric.) and the colors just won't go with the art, I will state and put on that order that the design is not warranteed to their liking. I've had a few folks take it and love it anyway, no accounting for taste. Most when I state, I don't like the design and my reasons I don't like it, change to something that does make sense. It those cases I will warrentee that they will like it, I picked it I'd better. Anyways it's rare and not worth losing sleep over, just fix it.

framer
 
I have been thru this situation twice with one lady I deal with quite often. First time I picked out a blue mat, she wanted burgundy and got it. Hated when she came to pick it up. She decided to put the blue mat on at my expense of course. Very happy when she picked it up. Second time, I showed her gray blue mat and she picked bright yellow. Came in and hated it. She chose the gray blue mat at her expense this time.
I suppose I evaluate these unhappies on a case by case basis.
 
I don't think she had ever paid yet... If you haven't paid, you have not "contracted".... the frame was his to do with what ever he wanted..

Later over lunch, he started chuckling..... "my god that felt good".
 
Baer Charlton said:
I don't think she had ever paid yet... If you haven't paid, you have not "contracted".... the frame was his to do with what ever he wanted..

Later over lunch, he started chuckling..... "my god that felt good".
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I adhere to the doctrine "the customer is always right" but I have been very tempted to do what your boss did a few times over the years. I'm afraid that it would feel too good, and I would enjoy it way too much, ;)
Bill
Ocean Art
 
Sure beats going back and kicking a box of Museum Glass.

:D
 
in general, my policy is to make the customer happy. If there is something wrong with the order, or something like that, i will certainly re-frame it for them.

however, I fully believe in letting the customer know what they are getting in to. If it is a hand-finished frame, I let them know there they may be some variation, as all trees are not the same.

I also have told customers that what they want does not look good. I do so tactfully, but I let them know that it is bad news, and if they still insist on having it done against the advice of a professional, they have to sign a 'waiver' that they have been informed that, essentially it will be ugly.

I haven't really run into any issues with this, other than having to have some agree that they don't have any taste. tactfully.
 
Holy jinxing Grumblers!!!!

I was smack in the middle of reading this thread when a mother/daughter team came in to pick up the daughter's 3 medical certificates. Mom had picked them out on Tuesday as a rush for today because she doesn't live here and was framing them as a gift for her daughter. Daughter balked at the frames being sooo wide (1.25"). I assured her I'd redo them in a narrower frame, but it couldn't be ready 'til next week. Mom talked her into taking them, saying she should be proud of how hard she worked to get them and show them off. I continued to assure her that is she doesn't like them once they're hung up I'll switch the frames.
 
Bogframe said:
Our policy is/was/shall always be "If our sticker is on the back, it's guaranteed against any defects in workmanship". If they don't like the mat color they picked out, we'll charge for a new mat, but not for a refit.
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This is also our common sense approach. If we ordered and cut materials for a job, we are not going to replace them because the customer changes his mind. We will, however, give a 20% discount on new materials and eliminate the labor charge. We rarely see this situation, but when we do, our customers are quite understanding. They expect to pay for new materials if they change thier mind, and they seem happy with the reduced rate for the switch. We do the same with broken glass.

If we replaced materials free of charge every time a customer redecorated or changed her mind, or every time we had an earthquake, we would not maintain a profitable business and we would not be here to provide said customer with excellent service.

We do provide a lifetime workmanship guarantee with receipt or our sticker on the back for both DIY and custom.
 
Unhappy Customers

We tell our customers that we will change it if they get it home and they don't like it. It always surprises them when we say this, because as it has been noted, custom businesses usually don't do this. I do it because my competition won't. It closes sales. It wins customers. Not doing it, loses customers. If they keep the pic and don't like it, they think bad thoughts about us every time they see it. They tell all of their friends how we helped them design it and then wouldn't make it to their liking.

The cliches: It costs a lot more to get a customer than to keep one you already have or,
It's not the problem but how you solve it.

We prefer to treat every customer as a precious gift and do whatever it takes to keep them happy. So far, this has not been abused. If I feel someone is abusing the offer, I will find a way to work around it.

In 2 years of owning the shop, noone has taken me up on the offer. But I have gotten customers from the competition when they refused to change the mat color. I've gotten their customers and I am planning on keeping them!

Jacqueline
 
Great, I've got one of these now. A nice big one, too -- double mat, with gold fillet between the two mats. But the mats (C2261) look very yellow against the piece, and they also look a shade or two yellower than the corner sample of the mat. So I'm ordering a different mat, and I'll take the piece apart, and show the full matboard of the new mat to the customer before cutting anything.

I'm not sure whether this should go in the "cursed" thread, because it's certainly cursed. When I first tried to lay the fillet inside the mat window, I discovered that one of the lengths of fillet was ridiculously warped. So I had to order a new fillet that would lie flush against the edge of the mat window.
 
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