Underpinners...yet again!

Barb Pelton

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Apr 14, 2002
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The Show Me State
It finally happened--mine threw a rod this morning. I might repair, but I think I'd rather invest in a new/good used one.

I searched for recommendations, but came away without much info. I would want a pnuematic type for about 50 frames a week--relatively low production. I can only tell you what I don't like about my present model, but it's the only one I've ever owned and it has operated rather well over all.

What I'd like to see in the next one would be
a softer touch when the v-nail goes in, if that's even possible. Sometimes the current one clamps down on the moulding with too much force.

I have always had to be sure to keep the guide block was perfectly clean--it didn't like to get glue on it anywhere, but like I said--they may all be that way.

Especially those of you who have used more than one model, can you compare them for me please? I've looked a little at markets, but not recently. Thanks.
 
Hi Barb,

I have been using a Euro 9009 underpinner for the last 15 years and have no complaints about the machine, .............. really!

In all, the only time I have had anything at all go wrong with it was about a year or so ago the regulator started a slow air leak. But that is it. If you want a really heavy built tank of an uknderpinner for all day joining, this will fill the bill for you. I bought mine from John Knoell & Sons, Inc. in New Britain, PA. You could contact him and have some brochures sent if you are interested.

These machines are built so stoutly that they will give a positive V-nail insertion on virtually any type of wood moulding available. For example, the hold down is built out of a solid piece of 1 3/4" round steel stock with a hold down arm attached to it that is about 2 1/2" wide by 3/4" thick solid steel. It is bolted to the upright round stock by a 2" hex head nut that is over 1" thick!! There is absolutely no give to THAT puppy when you actuate the v-nailer. Much of the trouble that framers have with poor v-nailing is a little bit of flex or give when the v-nail is inserted in the miter, especially on very hard woods. The Euro doesn't flex, period.

You should know from our talks that, if it wasn't just right, I would not own it. This is the "Bradley Tank" of the underpinner world in my opinion.

Framerguy
 
Barb, I think, at this point, you need a burnet from NC to do all your underpinning for you.

As long as I can bring Bo, the puppy with me.
 
Barb,

Here is a closeup of the operating head of the Euro along with the other hold down feet that came with it. (I can't find the long one with the black rubber insert but it is like the one pictured).

eurocloseup.jpg


The feet have felt pads on them and I cut a vee groove in them to stop the glue ooze-out from marring the moulding. When they get any buildup on them, as the short one in the photo has, I simply cut it away with a single edged razor blade. The feet are solid nylon and won't ever crack or break under use. These are the original ones that came with the underpinner when I bought it.

To further minimize any possibility of marring the finish on the moulding, I pad the top of the miter with a small square of scrap foamboard when driving in the v-nails.

Framerguy

Edit:

I will personally vouch for that hold down assembly not ever flexing. Just check the size of the solid steel that the components of the hold down assembly are built out of.

[ 02-17-2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]
 
I use an AMP VN4 that I have had for 8 years and love it. The amp uses soft pads on the clamping head and has an air adjustment for the clamping pressure. So far it has performed well with all the Ash and Oak that my customers love so much, thank God I now have a saw that can cut it.

I belive that Gerold Ledsom sells the Euro like Framerguy has if you go that way. It really does look like a tank and may be the last one you would ever need to buy.
 
I have a really nice VN 2+ 1 that I would consider selling ..As soon as I find a good used one like the Framerguys Vnailer !!! I have seen that Vnailer..." It is a tank !!! " and has a ton of features on it that I wished I had on mine, who ever designed it must have been a framer..a lot of thought went into it....And it just looks tough !!! It is truly built to last a lifetime..I think you can even change tires on that thing !!!.....Go get one, maybe they will throw you in a bottle of Merlot and you can take a break !!!
J. Michael
 
Here ya go, J. Michael, under 4 years old and with a floor stand and the accessories. AND it's in Atlanta so you could run up there and pick it up and save the freight!

Euro 9009 w/ floor stand

I think mine cost me around $2695 back in the late '80's so they must be over 3 grand by now. $1800 is a very good price for this one as the floor stand will run you another $400 or more on top of the price of the underpinner and the set of hold down feet are another $130.00 or so.

This is one of the very few that I have seen offered used. They just don't wear out and once you use one of these units, you won't want to sell it.

Framerguy
 
I'm interested myself, so if you are not, please post so. I'm going up to Atlanta next month and could pick it up then.
 
He's decided to keep it for himself....He does know of a couple of table top models though.
Tom, any thoughts on those.
 
So I'm not the only one shopping, hmmm. So what have you guys been using that you're switching from?

The Euro does look like a tank, and you're right 'Guy, I know you wouldn't put up with anything that was cantankerous!

I'm surprised no one else has jumped in with recommendations, though.

I'm looking into the Euro; someone else has given me the same recommendation.

Has anyone demoed the new machines from Fletcher? Just curious.
 
Barb,
I have a Caseese 830. Pneumatic with hand-held technology. It's been a good little machine and if you hold your tongue just right as you step on the pedal, you get a good joint. Limited to certain profiles and less dense woods. I bought it on my first trip to Atlanta for the Decor Show in the Inforum. 1985-86???
I have seen the Euro machines demoed by the guy that used to have the Gunnar franchise for the US and was very impressed with its features. I resolved at the time that I would upgrade to that, but since the Caseese wasn't broken, replacement wasn't a pressing issue.
 
Originally posted by wpfay:
He's decided to keep it for himself....He does know of a couple of table top models though.
Tom, any thoughts on those.
Actually, Wally, the one that I linked you to was a table top model with the optional stand. Mine is a table top model that I mounted on one of my work tables on a low shelf.

They are as good as underpinners get in my opinion. The 9009 is a pneumatic model and is the only type that I would consider buying for a production shop. If you do more than a couple of frames a day you would get tired of pushing down on the pedal on the manual machines. And the air operated ones are Faaaast! I can set 5 v-nails in the time it takes to move the head from one end of the miter to the other. The table has a calibrated rule on it which makes setting the v-nails evenly spaced a breeze.

Framerguy
 
I think he said the tabletop models were the Euro 9003. I'll have to check if that is a different model or just a designation for a 9009 without legs.
Thanks.
BTW. The Caseese 830 is fast (pneumatic) but it lacks a clamping system making it necessary to hold the stock against the fence with your fingers. Only got pinched once.
 
Hi Wally,

Here is a digital (not a very good digital) of an old price list for Euro that I had in the John Knoell catalog.

euronumber.jpg


Back when I bought my Euro the 9009 WAS the table top model. They may have come out with new models since then but there is no 9003 listed in this old pricelist.

I had the option of buying the floor stand (9007-110) for an additional $256 but I didn't need it since I already knew where I planned to mount the v-nailer.

Framerguy
 
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