WTB: Underpinner recomendations

Create a Post
Tommy P

Tommy P

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Posts
870
Loc
Mid North Indiana
I have used my ITW Manual Underpinner for about 8 years and have been very happy with it. I, as a few others, glue and vice my corners first and then underpin. I have now gotten to the point where this method cannot keep up with my output. To time consuming. I will not be able to get to WCAF this year to check out new machines and really did not look at them when I was there last year. So here is my question. What kind of new underpinner would allow me to do in one step the gluing and pinning motion while giving me the quality joins I now have? I CAN do it with my machine but not satisfactorily. Looking to ramp up production. Not hundreds of frames a week just more than what I'm doing now. Kind of in the dark about what's best.

Also interested if someone knows of a good used machine.
 
I purchased a Miter-Mite VN42 about 10 years ago and never regretted it yet. If i need another in the future i wouldn't hesitate. New, i paid about $2300. Now, a new one (list price) is $4687. If you want a good, used one, check out THIS site. Start looking from page 107 to page 1... page 107, 106, 105, etc. I quickly found one on page 106 for $2395. You may find one even cheaper... i saw one for $1250 a couple of months ago. Good luck. :kaffeetrinker_2:
 
ITW/AMP VN42 is the way to go. Check M&M at WCAF since they offer some screaming show deals on them. The price is way below comparable machines and you will join a hundred thousand frames before needing any repairs or service. Parts are a fraction of the cost of competitors if you ever need to replace something.
 
So does this ITW/AMP VN42 allow me to glue and pin at the same time? Or does it only require pinning to make a good join? What is your process and how quickly can you join all four corners.

My process now takes about 20 minutes to do a join.
 
Dot of of glue on the miter end and join er up. I use Corner Weld so I don't allow the glue to ooze out of the miter. Simple profile will take 20 seconds but could be less if we were racing. Horizontal clamp allows for alignment before firing a v-nail.
 
Tommy P said:
So does this ITW/AMP VN42 allow me to glue and pin at the same time? Or does it only require pinning to make a good join? What is your process and how quickly can you join all four corners.

My process now takes about 20 minutes to do a join.
Click to expand...

Different framers will have different suggestions, here is mine:
I always glue AND pin each corner. I DO NOT glue joints, clamp corner, let glue dry, then pin because it is a time-killer. I put only a thin stream(s) of drops in the corners, then pin. Some framers soak it with glue, then pin. I do not see any reason to apply so much glue. Using just a few drops per corner will save you cleanup time... To join 60+ frames takes me less than an hour. This depends on handling time. :thumbsup: Good luck.
 
So Jeff, is this one of those pinners that has a memory capacity to know certain moulding profiles? Or is that some other high dollar pro machine?
 
The one with the computer controller is much more expensive. It only takes a couple seconds to change the stops on the VN42.
 
I have the ITW AMP 4L. I purchased the 4L because I can set 3 stop positions for each frame and I can also nail up to a 6" moulding.

No matter what, you can't go wrong with a VN42 or a 4L.
 
VN42!

The VN42 is the best underpinner for the normal production framer made today! Would not part with the lightly used one I purchased - works like a brand new one! :thumbsup: Darth
 
The VN-42 I used for several years was a good machine, but the underpinner I use now is much better.

The difference is that this machine has a double vertical clamp assembly, consisting of two hydraulic cylinders that share the same reservoir of oil in a closed system. So, when one clamp goes up, the other goes down. That is, when you adjust the two clamps laterally to touch the moulding's top surface at certain points, the two clamps exert exactly equal pressure at both points.

This assembly holds all mouldings more securely, especially the wide ones with fragile decoration or radical shapes, eliminating any concern about the moulding rolling or twisting during the insertion of fasteners. When you are joining a narrow moulding, you can easily push the second clamp up and out of the way, then turn it off with a conveniently-located toggle switch on top of one of the clamp cylinders.

As a result, you get perfect joins in one operation, and you may never again have to glue/clamp/setup before you drive the fasteners.

Fletcher/Pilm, Inmes, and ITW/AMP all make machines with this double vertical clamp feature or offer it as an accessory and, in my opinion, it is well worth its price. It not only makes for better joins on the most difficult mouldings, but since you no longer have to glue/clamp/setup before fastening, it saves a lot of time.
 
And don't forget about Cassese ... my 299M is rock solid, very adaptable, very reliable, does a great job clamping/joining all manner of profiles.
 
Jim, has Fletcher made that machine where you can join the frame while standing on the outside? This is a deal breaker for me as my belly is to big to fit inside most frames I join and my arms are to short to reach over.
 
Lot's to consider. Dang, wish I was going to WCAF to look at all the models. But I'd like to make the buy for this years tax purposes.

Jim, thanks for the advice on the double vertical clamp. Makes a lot of sense.

Now I've got that "new car bug" thing in my head.......................
 
Tommy, I have the Fletcher Corner pro 5700 which is the unit Jim has. Great machine and if you are ready to pop on one I might have access to a brand new one at a huge savings. Mike
 
Pistorious!

My favorite is the Pistorious, fast accurate and very easy to use...the fact that Pistorious is no longer in business is a concern but wouldn't be a deal breaker if I found one of these machines...VN42s are good but not as fast (my experience anyway) or as capable of making tight corners without the time consuming vise & glue 1st method...just my opinion.
 
You may have been using it wrong Marty as mine makes a thousand or so frames a month without ever having an issue. On production jobs I have easily hit 150 frames cut and joined in a day. I know that Dave at Frame Makers can get the same results out of his so it's not just me.
 
"I might have access to a brand new one at a huge savings. " Mike

HOW HUGE IS HUGE?
 
FrameMakers said:
Jim, has Fletcher made that machine where you can join the frame while standing on the outside?
Click to expand...

Sure, Dave, mine is set up that way now. As far I know, any of the brands could be set up either tilted or horizontal.

Earlier this year I tilted the stand to about 45 degrees and added the optional side-wings, so the frame extends up and away from the operator. The control panel is horizontal and within easy reach, and you can read the gauges easily.

I prefer the tilted position, as it enables me to build bigger frame in my tiny, 5-1/2' x 8' underpinning room. Believe it or not, I can build a 54" frame in there. On the rare occasions when I have to build a larger frame, I just pull the machine into the main fitting room. I like the angle of view of the corner under the clamps, too.

On the other hand, Nadine prefers the machine to be horizontal, with the frame rails supported on the side-tables, as we installed it originally. We can build frames up to 48" that way, using a portable stand to support the fourth corner. Of course, she's tall and skinny, so it's easy for her to stand inside almost any frame. She has complained about this tilted-machine setup since I changed it, so I probably will change it back. Ah, the things we do to keep these women happy...:cry:
 
The same day my VN42 came in i set up a work table for it. I reversed the way it was factory mounted on the stand. By doing so, the frame pieces are out of my... AWAY from me as each corner is pinned. If you leave it set up as is, in my opinion, it is good only for small frames or corner samples...
 
I've been using v-nailers for nearly 3 decades and have always joined from the backside. First thing I did with the VN 42 was flip the direction of the stand then mounted it in a table so the regulator and gauge face out. The stand isn't needed but came with the machine since I bought the floor model at the Atlanta show and drove home with it.
 
So far I am interested in the VN42 and the Fletcher 5700. Also considering the Inmes Im4P. I like the idea of a machine holding several different sizes of vnails and being able to quickly change to the one needed. I believe the Inmes does this via some type of knob. Anyone have an Inmes they would like to comment on? Is this feature a plus?

I can get a great deal on a Fletcher 5600 but I figure this will be that last underpinner I will ever buy and want to get the best one.

Thanks everyone!
 
Tommy P said:
So far I am interested in the VN42 and the Fletcher 5700. Also considering the Inmes Im4P. I like the idea of a machine holding several different sizes of vnails and being able to quickly change to the one needed. I believe the Inmes does this via some type of knob. Anyone have an Inmes they would like to comment on? Is this feature a plus?

I can get a great deal on a Fletcher 5600 but I figure this will be that last underpinner I will ever buy and want to get the best one.

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...

Tommy, you stated "I like the idea of a machine holding several different sizes of vnails and being able to quickly change to the one needed." Believe me... i am willing to bet almost ALL framers use 5/8" 99% of the time. When i purchased my VN42, I ordered a bunch of vnails... 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8" vnails for hardwood, medium wood, and softwood. After all the years of using my VN42, i NEVER had to order any more vnails at all except for the 5/8" for hardwood (off-brand vnails usually give you TWO choices... for softwood or for hardwood). Vnails are very easy to change in VN42.
 
I use the 10, 12 and 15mm on a daily basis and rarely use the 7mm. Only takes a couple of seconds to change the head. Just don't overtighten the screw or you will wear out the head block which runs about $65.
 
Thanks to all for the great advice. One last question and I'll try to put this post to bed.

The idea of the moulding remaining stationary and the vnail positioning moving to insert the vnails sounds good to me. Is it a plus and what machines do this if it is important or beneficial? I currently must move the moulding on my ITW manual.

And by the way, I've heard Charleston is a definite place to put on our visit list!
 
The ITW and Fletcher use a horizontal rabbet clamp which holds the moulding stationary as the head moves to different positions.
 
Check out the ITW AMP Mitre Mite VN 4L - the moulding stays stationary with the nailing head moving to 3 different possitions. Also, the fenses move both vertically and horizontally where many other machine don't have that option. This is a great custom shop underpinner.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top