Un-mounting a conti-crayon original

laurie@offsetcorner

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Posts
3
Loc
Snohomish, Washington
An artist took her original conte crayon artwork to a big box framer about 12-13 years ago. Brought it in today to reframe and found it has been mounted to foam core. It is a very shiny film, that almost looks like tape, but it isn't. Is there anyway to un-do this safely? As it is crayon, re-heating is out. Is adhesive release an option?
 
It seems that new people keep asking the same questions over and over. This is a forum for PICTURE FRAMERS, more or less. A few nuts, (you know who you are) but mostly framers. Not conservators. We get help from Rebecca and Hugh, two great resources, but they are going to tell you just what the framers are going to tell you. Call a conservator. Unless you are qualified to do removal, don't do it. If the customer doesn't want to pay for a conservator, then it stays the way it is. Maybe the customer should go back to the original framer and ask for help in paying for the conservator.

Don't mean to sound grouchy and in the "Olden" days, I would have wanted to help the customer also. Time has proven over and over that I am better off being a framer, which is what I am qualified to be.
 
Laurie, welcome to The Grumble.

Out of curiosity, why are we wanting to unmount it now? It should probably not have been mounted in the first place, but you could easily compound a problem that was not your doing by trying to fix it.

Any reason why you can't reframe it as is?
 
Laurie,
Just echoing what everyone else just said: Don't do it. Either leave it as it is or let a conservator do it.

edie the youllregretitifyoueventry goddess
 
...another voice on the side of do nothing. Heat might effect the crayon, but solvents would ....um....disolve (hence the name).
I would think that even a conservator would have difficulty with this one.

Welcome to the Grumble...sorry to have no magic bullets for you.

(Nona, where are your manners?
)
 
We call it the Tar Baby effect. Touch it, and you're stuck, touch it some more to get unstuck, and you're really stuck - before you know it your begging to be tossed into the briar patch...

Canton Joe
 
Laurie, customers often ask framers to do conservation work, perhaps unaware that conservators exist. Or maybe they think we'll do it free of charge if they buy the frame from us...
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In any case it is a mistake for us to experiment or attempt potentially-destructive procedures unless we know exactly what we're doing. The greatest danger is in what we do not know about the materials and methods involved.

I like Nona's suggestion of having the customer ask the original framer to share the cost of conservation treatment. This is how lawsuits get started.

Be careful about denegrating another framer, but make it clear that the previous mounting was incorrect according to established preservation standards and generally accepted framing practices, all of which are documented by FACTS and numerous framing books.
 
Wow, you all seem to think I was actually GOING to do this. Of course I said she needed a conservator, but being a starving artist, of course she didn't want to spend the bucks. I am not brand new to framing, just this forum, and told her I would check just to see if 12-13 years ago they made an easier to release mounting adhesive.

Thanks to all who replied, even though most of you sound pretty "grumbly" and put me on the defensive my first time out!
 
>Thanks to all who replied, even though most of you sound pretty "grumbly" and put me on the defensive my first time out!

Ha. The pick on the newbie syndrome. They just try to run you off, but get over it pretty quickly when they determine you aren't gonna go away quietly. ;) Demonstrate that you have the starch to take your initiation and it turns out they'll be pretty helpful after all.
 
since you brought up the subject..........did this "starving artist" insist on a drymount (or equiv to have their art FLAT) in the firt place 12-13 years ago? If so, I see this as a customers remorse at being cheap in the first place.
 
Originally posted by laurie@offsetcorner:
Wow, you all seem to think I was actually GOING to do this...
Thanks to all who replied, even though most of you sound pretty "grumbly" and put me on the defensive my first time out!
Laurie:
A lot of framers attempt jobs like that, so I (we?) figured that if you got encouragement here you might try it.
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Sorry to pre-judge, but we framers have a long, dark history of bad conservation. Framers' conservation efforts often fail tragically, but some of them actually seem to work -- at least for a while. Then later, something discolors or cracks or peels or becomes odorous. Please don't ask how I know that.

They call this The Grumble for good reason. But if you meet a hundred of us over social beverages at a trade show (Atlanta coming up, Las Vegas in January) you'd probably actually find one or two of us tolerable. We're not bad, just misunderstood. :rolleyes:
 
Laurie,

Welcome to the grumble. You have and will receive mostly good advice here. Don't worry about the occasional harsh tone now and then, you wouldn't be the first, nor last.

Could be some of us had one too many dust bunnies under the glass today.

Hope you stick around.

-Mike.
 
Laurie,
Sorry, I did indeed assume that you had it in your head to attempt unmounting this, especially with your mention of every framer's favorite perfume, adhesive release.
Ya'll come back now. This really is a fun 'place.'

edie the youwontregretfrequentgrumblevisits goddess
 
The Doctah... See? I told you!! You are already passe!

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Laurie, by any chance did this customer ask if you could "JUST" try to get it off? This is a four-letter word that should serve as a red flag every time.
Welcome to the Grumble.
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Rick
 
Sorry Laurie. I was real careful to get out on the right side of the bed this morning and will try to sound a bit more friendly in the future.
 
I guess I could have been more specific in saying that I was just checking but had advised my customer it would probably remain as is or she could take it to a conservator.

My feelings are not hurt. I'll just be real careful how I phrase things in the future!

Anyway-she did not ask for it to be mounted. She was taking it apart to get new mats-acid free this time and a new frame and discovered what had happened. So when I told her that on a "world wide" forum that the best advice is to leave it be, she was very willing to do so.

Thanks to all, again.
 
Originally posted by laurie@offsetcorner:
...Anyway-she did not ask for it to be mounted. She was taking it apart to get new mats-acid free this time and a new frame and discovered what had happened. So when I told her that on a "world wide" forum that the best advice is to leave it be, she was very willing to do so.
Let's talk about terminology.

I'd recommend lignin free alphacellulose mats instead of ordinary acid free mats. The term "acid free" has been so misused for so long to describe buffered wood pulp matboards that many framers believe them to be suitable for most preservation framing. Not so. Check the archives for lots of information on "acid free".

Correction: As I understand the responses, the lowest-cost advice is to leave it as is. The best advice is professional conservation treatment.

All things framed with mats must be mounted to retain their position in the frame package. The best mounts are non-invasive (minimal change of condition), long term stable (minimal change over time), and completely reversible without invasive methods or materials (minimal evidence of mounting after it is undone). If the previous framer permanently mounted it without permission, then that company should be asked to pay for the corrective work. If I were you I would suggest she double check the work order for the previous framing job. And if the mounting method isn't specified there, she might have a valid claim. If a customer could prove that I or one of my employees made such an error, my company would be quick to make it right at whatever cost.
 
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