Two Questions

TheDoctah

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1) When mounting a large print as a landscape, what is the preferred method of hingeing? Assume for the sake of this question that we are talking about a print on rag paper. Linen tape or plastic tape?

2) Let's say your customer is going to mount a triptych in a single frame, so there are three identical windows in the overmat. Is it preferred that all three images be printed on the same (large) sheet, or is it better to have them printed on individual sheets?
 

Emibub

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I'll pipe in.....

1. Your options are fairly limited. If it is rag paper and valuable I would use possibly mylar pockets or mulberry paper and nori paste. So many factors to consider. How big is it? What sort of border does it have and how much of it will be covered by the mat. How valuable is it? If very valuable you need to take conservstion into consideration and go with the nori......or pockets. I don't use plastic tape for any mounting so I cna't comment on that.

2. Usually, we don't have the choice how it is printed, but if given the choice, I owuld prefe them to be in three pieces..........

Hope any of this helps!!
 

wpfay

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Hinging is best dove with water soluble starch (rice or wheat) made in to a paste. Nori is the Japanese word for rice starch paste.
Both the linen and plastic tapes can have pressure sensitive adhesives on them that are not recommended for archival hinging. The linen tape with the moisture activated glue is generally though to be too aggressive a glue with too strong of a tape for the purpose. The starch used is vegetable based and penetrates the paper more that the grain based starches. The linen is often stronger than the paper being supported and will damage the paper instead of failing should the frame receive a blow.


The second question is answered on how exacting you can cut a window (or 3). I would assume you are working with your own art, so you have the option.
 

TheDoctah

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Well, I don't have a mat cutter at this point, so it's pretty well academic. So I'd have to see my buddy Bill for this sort of job. I was just curious as to what would be preferred from a framer's perspective. I can imagine accurately cutting three windows would be significantly more difficult than cutting a single window.

As for my first question, it's my own art, so it's readily replaceable until such time as I have a catastrophic hardware failure. I generally print full bleed, and have ~1/4" of the print under the mat (I don't use deckled paper, so there's no need to float the mount.) Pretty vanilla stuff.

What's the issue with pressure sensitive adhesives? Is it not enough for it to be acid-free?
 

Bill Henry-

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Mark,

Measuring and cutting a mat with three openings is a <u>whole</u> lot easier if the images are on separate pieces of paper.
 

Greg Fremstad

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Very few pressure sensitive adhesives contain acid. They do add acid to some adhesives to help the adhesive bond to some metals. "Acid-free" is a buzzword used to sell people stuff. Same with terms like "Archival, Museum, Conservation, Preservation, Artists tape, & Framers tape. There are no standard meanings for these terms and no specific criteria for manufactureing products. They call it artists tape to sell it to artists. Who knows what artists are supposed to use it for, what it's designed to stick to, and how long it's supposed to last or how it can be removed.

Nori is a Japanese word that means paste. It also means seaweed and has several other meanings depending on the context. FrameTek's NORI precooked,ready to use wheat starch is made from pure WHEAT starch paste and distilled water. Period. No additives, preservatives, nothing! Cooked, packed in individual single use packets and then sterilized.


It's the same formula that
 

Greg Fremstad

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Whoops! I hit the send button a little prematurely.

It's the same formula used for hundreds of years by every museum and conservator world over for attaching important artwork into frames.
 

PAckerman

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Greg,
How is it sterilized? Artist tape and framers tape use the acid free terminology to tell you that no acidic products were used during the manufacturing process. 3M 924 atg tape is pH neutral but not considered acid free due to products containing acid used in the manufacturing process. Acid Free atg had no acidic chemicals used in manufacture and then can be considered acid free. I only use atg for an exampe this is true with ant tape.
 

TheDoctah

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>"Acid-free" is a buzzword used to sell people stuff. Same with terms like "Archival, Museum, Conservation, Preservation, Artists tape, & Framers tape. There are no standard meanings for these terms and no specific criteria for manufactureing products.

So does PAT mean anything to anyone here? One of my suppliers makes a big deal of items they sell which pass PAT (Photographic Activity Test). Is this a real standard or simply marketing-speak?

>Nori is a Japanese word that means paste. It also means seaweed and has several other meanings depending on the context.

No wonder I kept thinking of my last sushi lunch. :)

So if I use this paste rather than a tape hinge, how am I attaching the print to the backmat? Am I slathering the entire back of the print, or just a line across the top, or am I using some sort of paper tape that has no adhesive of its own to make a hinge, or what?
 

wpfay

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The Nori is used in conjunction with varying strengths (thickness, weight, tear strength all factored to the same properties in the item being hinged) of Japanese papers. The papers are torn to make minimal attachment point hinges. The Nori is applied to the hinge, allowed to air dry for a period of time (pure experience, no exact science) and then applied to the back of the border of the item being hinged. The pattern and frequency is also a matter of size and weight. The loose end of the hinge is attached to the mount board using a similar method, or passed through the mount using a beveled slit and attached to the back of the mount board.

There are several methods of applying the Nori. The latest is called "micro dot" and is supposed to provide a good attachment with the least distortion from the humidity in the paste. Hugh post a link to the PFM article that explained this technique in another thread recently.

The argument against pressure sensitive adhesives, for the most part, is that the chemical nature of the adhesive changes over time and the resulting substance can produce acidic gasses, release discoloring solvents, fail, or any combination of the above (and probably some other things as well, but this seems to be argument enough).
The starch pastes are inert and can be successfully removed from the art if necessary.

The terms are all somewhat corrupt from misuse with "acid-free" being the poster child. Any technology or material acceptable for preservation of the item being framed should be deemed "non-donor".

Doc, good luck keeping up with the printing technology and it's standardizations. From this framers point of view the applications are ahead of the science so we're going to be in for some unpleasant surprises down the road.
On the other hand I just saw a print from a yet to be releases Epson 9800 (the person who printed it is a beta tester for Epson) and the color is incredibly rich.
 

preservator

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A description of microdot hinging can be found
at pictureframingmagazine.com, articles index,
regular departments (preservation practices),
Jan '03, "Microdot Paste Hinging".


Hugh
 

Steven6095

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I have to ask.......WHERE in the world (other than Japan...ha ha) can you find good hinging paper?
Any suppliers out there?
 

Greg Fremstad

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FrameTek's NORI ready to use wheat starch packets are sterilized using an old family recipe. If I devulged it the Tong would kill us both.

It's really a moot point about acid in tape. The watch words in hinging important or valuable paper art are LONGEVITY and REVERSABILITY.

We have over 1000 years experience with wheat starch paste and paper thanks to the Chinese. It doesn't degrade with time. Hinges are easliy removed even after years with a slightly dampend Q-Tip.

Pressure sensitive adhesives are part of what keeps paper conservators in business. You've undoubtedly seen the results of age on pressure sensitive adhesives - a nice brown stain that shows through the paper and residue embedded deep into the paper fibers. Very hard to remove these stains.
 

Baer Charlton

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Greg, Peter brought it up, and a few weeks ago in a conversation with me he happened to mention that you irradiate you paste.

That got me just a little curious, and I understand that Eugene not really being a part of the Peoples Free Republic of Oregon and operating under the Anarchy Rules of Governing and Nuclear Control and Babysitting or Tree Squatting Consortium ULtd.....

Do you just take a batch down to the local hospital and have them run it through the Cat-scan? Or just drive a few passes on the river near Hanford?
 

Greg Fremstad

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Baer,

Our first batches of NORI were radiated in a very expensive process in Chicago. Now we hav changed to a much easier, faster, and less expensive method. The Tong has warned me not to divulge this old secret. Rest assured, NOTHING will grow in a sealed NORI packet until the packet is opened. Then you have about 2 days 'til the mold starts growing. Just the same as if you'd cooked your own wheat starch paste. And don't put it in the fridge cause mold loves cold.
 

Rick Granick

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Greg- Does Nori paste (unopened packets) have a shelf life? I found a couple that sneaked to the back of my drawer that may be a couple of years old. Would they still be safe to use?
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
Rick
 

preservator

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More info on Hiroim Paper International:
HIROMI PAPER INTERNATIONAL

2525 Michigan Ave Unit G-9
Santa Monica, CA 90404

phone : (310) 998-0098
fax : (310) 998-0028


Hugh
 

Framar

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Here's another question about Nori and longevity.

I have opened the packet, used a eensy amount, and resealed the packet with a small clamp, then double-bagged it in ziplocks. If no mold is evident, is the paste OK to use, or does it lose its strength or holding power?

I bought a small bottle of what is called Nori paste from a rubber stamp store (from the Yasutomo Company in Japan) - $2.25 for 1.84 oz - I have been using it for a year (although not for hinging). Oddly enough, it says on the label to refrigerate after opening to prolong use (which I have not done - it's been over a year now and the paste is still unmoldy and sticky...).

I realize "nori" means "paste" in Japanese - but let's talk about shelf life here. This small bottle of paste is sealed about as well as your average bottle of Elmer's.

Hmmmmmmm.....
 

Greg Fremstad

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FrameTek's first NORI packs had expiration dates just to be safe. After 4 years we have tested for mold growth and found nothing. (Didn't really expect to). Our NORI paste is pure wheat starch paste. If the bottled Nori paste is wheat or rice starch, then they have added something to keep it from growing mold.

Museums and conservators won't gennerally use any products
that they don't know EXACTLY what's in them. Any cooked wheat or rice starch paste in an open container will grow mold quickly.

Is it worth the risk to use moldy paste between a hinge and an important piece of art?

Do not refrigerate NORI paste packets. Mold loves cold.

The whole principle of these teeeny packets of pre-cooked ready to use wheat starch paste was so the framers who wanted a consistant thickness paste available instantly without the mess and hassle of cooking could just open a little packet and be ready to go.

No excuses for ever using tape of any sort on important art.

If you do all your hinging on one day of the week, one little NORI packet will do 100-150 hinges. Charge each of your customers the 99 cents for the one NORI pack and finally be profitable doing proper hinges.
 

preservator

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The Japanese product may have an anti-biological
agent in it to keep the mold away. Some of these
additives have been shown to discolor paper. For
that reason, conservators, as Greg said, make their own so they know exactly is in it. It is
safest to keep it pure and simple.

Hugh
 

Framar

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Greg - pardon my little LOL here - but if I had 100-150 hinges to do in one day, or one week, or even ONE MONTH - I'd be RICH!

Maybe some day.....
 

Rebecca

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The Nori packets are a great idea for quick and easy, but for those who are familiar with cooking, it is very fast and easy and cheap to make paste from scratch. About 5 minutes and under a dollar to make a weeks supply.

And yes Doctah, PAT is not just good press, it is an actual test that indicates a high level of stability. http://www.clearfile.com/online/PAT.htm

Rebecca
 
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