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Rian Fabrication Services  www.rianfabrication.com

Problem Tru Vue Museum Glass 36 x 48

Jodie Prymke

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Is anyone else having problems with the plastic film sticking to the 36 x 48 Museum Glass? The plastic seems to be thicker than it used to be and is leaving wave marks all over the glass rendering it unusable. I have had 2 x batches with the same problem. The 32 x 40 and 40 x 60 however, are fine.
Has the problem been fixed?
Thanks, Jodie
 

Rick Granick

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Hi, Jodie. Nice to see you here. Hope all is well with you.

I have not had that kind of issue with Museum Glass. I usually stock just the 32 x 40, but recently used 36 x 48 and had no problem with that either.
Because you are in Australia, your supply may be coming from a different source. Have you checked with your distributor? Maybe they got an odd batch.

:cool: Rick
 

Ylva

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Not exactly the same problem, but recently I have noticed that the glass is dirtier right out of the box. Maybe the plastic attracts more dust, it being static.
One of the lites, straight out of the box, had a bit of a wave pattern, but after cleaning it was almost gone.
It was just the one lite out of 6, in the 32x40 size
 

RParrish

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I have heard several complaints like this.
 

shayla

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I've gotten it. I think maybe we were able to remove it, but can't recall. Will ask helpers to show me if we come across more.
 
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wvframer

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Has anyone talked to a TV rep? It was my understanding that the intent was for MG in all sizes to be perfect out of the box and without requiring cleaning and without the tendency to scratch that the earlier version had. I am betting they would like to hear about it and will make good on any bad product.
 

Joe B

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I have complained about the plastic separator on Museum Glass since they switched from the paper to the plastic. I've been poo pooed by many of the framers here about my complaint so I stopped complaining. I just don't pitch the Museum Glass like I use to because I have found the glass coming to me with scratches already on it because the plastic has slipped down causing the glass to rub against each other and glass to be much dirtier and seems to have some type of film on it from the plastic which makes it harder to clean. I believe in supporting my local vendors but I can't afford to waste my time with a problem product and IMO that plastic has made Museum Glass a problem product. Unfortunately I do sell less Museum Glass than I use to because I have raised my price significantly to cover the cost of the damaged glass and time consuming cleaning. Maybe TruVue will wake up and correct their faulty change by using plastic instead of paper. They would be much better off using a ticker paper separator and it would more than likely be less expensive. Just my opinion.
 

Jodie Prymke

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Mar 22, 2015
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Thanks for your replies. I have had 2 x different batches with the same problem. I tried cleaning but it didn’t remove it. I returned both boxes to my supplier who gave me credits and I’ve since been using the 40 x 60 as a substitute. It’s not ideal - it’s difficult for me to handle and frankly it’s dangerous.
I don’t know who the Tru Vue rep is in the US, but this problem needs to be addressed and fixed by them ASAP.
Thank you 😊
 
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Jodie Prymke

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I had a HUGE problem with the paper dividers. The long distance the glass had to travel from the US to Australia was problematic - the scratching on all sizes. The plastic, in my opinion, was a God-send. I haven’t complained in years! But something has changed recently and only with the 36 x 48 size. The plastic feels thicker, almost like two sheets, but it’s not. And it’s sticking to the glass so you have to peel it away. I would say only in the last 6 months or so.
 
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Joe B

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I had a HUGE problem with the paper dividers. The long distance the glass had to travel from the US to Australia was problematic - the scratching on all sizes.
And the scratching with thin paper is a problem, I agree, but the plastic I have found in more of a problem because it slides down between the glass if the box is not closed tightly, which many aren't. I believe a thicker paper would be the remedy but we will never know unless they try it. At least with the paper I never had a film that is hard to clean off.
 
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neilframer

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I just framed a number of pieces today with Museum glass with the plastic but it was 32" x 40" and no issues.
I've got about 6 pieces to do tomorrow with Museum glass but it's 40" x 60".
Haven't used the 36" x 48" lately but I do have a couple of pieces coming up and I will check it out.

Most of our glass boxes are put in a rack and we cut open the end and slide the glass out.
I never do this with Museum or even AR glass.
I take the whole box out of the rack and open the front and take the glass out of the front of the box without sliding it.
I always wear gloves when handling Museum and AR and I'm sure that many folks do the same thing.

We have also been using some GroGlass ArtGlass AR70 and ArtGlass AR99 with good results so there are other options.
 
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Jodie Prymke

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Unfortunately Museum Glass is the only viable option here in Australia. I don’t have space to house 10 x boxes at a time of any one size of ArtGlass, and TV is readily available locally, one by one, and when I need it.
I don’t know what has changed recently, but all I ask is that they revert to what was working beautifully in the last couple of years. If it was a cost-cutting measure, it would have been nice to have been consulted. I’d happily pay a few dollars more for the old, thinner plastic.
Wouldn’t silicon release paper be the ideal answer?
 

neilframer

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Unfortunately Museum Glass is the only viable option here in Australia. I don’t have space to house 10 x boxes at a time of any one size of ArtGlass, and TV is readily available locally, one by one, and when I need it.
I don’t know what has changed recently, but all I ask is that they revert to what was working beautifully in the last couple of years. If it was a cost-cutting measure, it would have been nice to have been consulted. I’d happily pay a few dollars more for the old, thinner plastic.
Wouldn’t silicon release paper be the ideal answer?
I agree with your comments.
Tru Vue has for many years told us that their product is now improved and then we have issues.
I didn't really have a problem with the paper between the glass but I completely understand that long range shipping with the glass shifting in the boxes can leave marks.

I'm not a big fan of the plastic but we have local suppliers with local warehouses and if we ever have an issue, it's easily taken care of because we are in a major metro area.
I will post what I find when I get into the 36" x 48" in the next day or so.

I feel your issue and as they say, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" so if enough folks complain, maybe they will fix the issue.
Cheers.
 
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wvframer

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I think this may have something to do with the amount of handling. My glass is trucked to a local warehouse by the truckload, then loaded onto a delivery truck and driven less than 5 miles. Once it arrives at the warehouse, it is handled by experienced people who keep it upright.

While I think it is important to bring it to TV's attention, the fact that I never have a problem but some of you do makes me think it is happening in the handling before it reaches you. This is, of course, TV's problem, but the more information you can give them, the quicker they can address the problem.
 

Joe B

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While I think it is important to bring it to TV's attention,
Why bring it up to them, they won't do anything about it. I've complained for 2 years now to the rep and nothing has happened, I'm sure the upper management doesn't really give a darn about what we say - it sort of like how long it took them to attempt to do something about the easy scratching and how hard it was to remove fingerprints - really, I don't think they did much about the scratches or finger prints.
 

neilframer

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I doubt one complaint would change a thing. But maybe if everyone who has a problem, would take the extra step of reporting it to them, it might bring results.
I agree.:thumbsup:
But, It's kind of like when I've reported powder post beetles to La Marche moulding (they're gone) and to Roma over the years.
They respond "This is the first time we are hearing of this...":icon11:
Meanwhile a number of people have complained and they know it.:shrug:
 

tedh

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Or, how about the Crescent core problem from years ago?
 
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Mike Drury

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We have had that issue with MG also. I have talked to TV and they are aware of whats is happening but they were not able to say what their plan of action is to correct this problem.
 

FramerCat

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I doubt one complaint would change a thing. But maybe if everyone who has a problem, would take the extra step of reporting it to them, it might bring results.
I agree, but I switched over to Artglass 99 because of several issues with Tru Vue and I know lots of others did the same so that's a whole lot of formerly complaining voices that are now silent. I don't think Tru Vue is going to even notice that there is a problem until they see their sales decline dramatically and then they'll just be scratching their heads or blaming the economy or any number of other things because the complaints have all gone away so the customers must be happy, just not buying.

Ed
 

Jim Miller

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...But maybe if everyone who has a problem, would take the extra step of reporting it to them, it might bring results.
Yes, and that good advice applies to all products from all suppliers. Many voices are stronger than one, of course.

When an occasional complaint comes to the delivering distributor's Customer Service or Sales Representative, the first priority probably would be to fix the immediate problem with replacement materials, and that may be as far as it goes. How often does the manufacturer actually hear from the distributor about the problem? We don't know.

Occasional complaints may get lost in the shuffle, and it's probably difficult for manufacturers, importers, and distributors to log and keep track of reported quality problems - assuming they hear about them.

Most of us would not report a quality problem directly to the manufacturer, but to the distributor who delivered the goods. And the distributor, not the manufacturer, would be responsible for the immediate corrective action.

Sometimes, if a problem is caused by something beyond the manufacturer's control, such as poor warehouse conditions or rough handling/transit, could the manufacturer prevent that? Maybe, but the first issue is for the manufacturer to clearly understand the source and scope of the problem.
 

wpfay

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Unlike a simple complaint, returning the product probably has real impact.

The distributor will want the manufacturer to credit them for the defective product as well, so the word will certainly go up the chain of command.

I have a history of pointing out TV being more focused on marketing than quality control, so I'm not surprised that it is occurring again.

I have also switched to ArtGlass99 and am very happy with the product. I still get TV products, just not the Museum Glass.
 

Jim Miller

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Anti-reflection glazing is among our industry's highest-technology products, and I'd be reluctant to single out one particular manufacturer for two reasons. First, while one company and its products may not always be perfect, most framers remain happy with them. And second, the other company could have occasional problems with such complex products, too.

Perhaps the operative difference between these two makers of anti-reflection glass would be that, since GroGlass is a much smaller company with a smaller distributor network, they may be able to react more quickly to problems reported. But that is not to say Tru Vue is unconcerned; I know better from personal experience.

Disclaimer:
I currently work with ArtGlass on some projects. I've also worked with Tru Vue in the past. I have a great deal of respect for both companies and their products. I have no ax to grind here.
 
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Joe B

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I agree, but I switched over to Artglass 99 because of several issues with Tru Vue and I know lots of others did the same so that's a whole lot of formerly complaining voices that are now silent.
Ed
And I would switch over to Artglass too but there isn't a vendor here that carries it. TruVue has a plant here in Minnesota so the Vendors prices for shipping is much lower, or at least I think that is one of the issues. I had absolutely no issues with Artglass.

I bought some Artglass from a frame shop that shut their doors and I liked it.. The quality is, in my opinion, was better that TruVue because it was easier to handle and did not scratch near as easily. With that said I use a lot of TruVue Museum but since they went to the paper dividers I have had not but problems with them with scratching issues when removing a lite from the box. That stupid plastic fall down and glass is against the next glass without the protection. The paper dividers did not slide down and one more issue, in this day of Eco Friendly products that plastic sure doesn't fill the bill and a company like TruVue should be looking at that.

Unlike a simple complaint, returning the product probably has real impact. The distributor will want the manufacturer to credit them for the defective product as well, so the word will certainly go up the chain of command.

I have a history of pointing out TV being more focused on marketing than quality control, so I'm not surprised that it is occurring again. I have also switched to ArtGlass99 and am very happy with the product. I still get TV products, just not the Museum Glass.
Wally, I totally agree that we should send it back but in many instances we just don't have the time, framing project have to be done as promised or our customers will go somewhere else. Our customers don't care what our vendors think or do one way or the other, they are concerned with the time we, as the framer, needs to finish their framing project. If we have to send product back then we are already late. So keep more in stock, there are many framers that do not have the funds necessary to have a large stock of glass, mats, or moulding and they just can't order extra just in case what they receive from the vendor is damaged.

But that is not to say Tru Vue is unconcerned; I know better from personal experience.
Jim, I don't agree with you. We have complained for years about the easily scratched Museum Glass and the hard to remove finger print marks. People using ArtGlass couldn't understand why we wouldn't switch because they were having none of those issues. A couple years ago TruVue said they rectified those issues, yup, can't prove it bu me, we still have problems with scratching and finger print removal, and truthfully I can see very little difference. Then TruVue comes up with the plastic lite dividers - that is pure and simple the dumbest idea. The plastic drops down and the glass get scratched, paper separators didn't drop down so you didn't have scratches from shipping or when removing the glass from the box. Now, TruVue in their infinite wisdom, have decided not to use the corner protectors inside the box and the cardboard re-enforcement in their cases of 40 X 60 Museum Glass, at least in the last 3 cases I have purchased so far this month. They have thicker boxes but the boxes flex much more than when they had the re-enforcement cardboard sheet and I have had one lite break and then scratch the other lite in a box. Since I pick the glass up from the Vendor I cannot say for sure who broke it, including me so I did not try to return it. Luckily I was able to use the majority of that box but I still had several square feet that had to be thrown out at my expense. They have, with the 40 X 60, gone to doing it cheap without concern for the frame shop so, no, I will not agree with you about TruVue's concerns from framers. Sorry...
 

shayla

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....TruVue in their infinite wisdom, have decided not to use the corner protectors inside the box and the cardboard re-enforcement in their cases of 40 X 60 Museum Glass....
They're leaving them out of the larger sizes, as well. (At least in the 48 x 68 that we've bought.) I wish they were still in, as they really have a good function.

I'm not sure if we've had more trouble with Tru Vue glass this past several months, but we've had different trouble. In years past, it was things like finish flaws on Museum and side-writing on conservation that went so far in we had to remove it. Lately it's been things like, 'This box of 16 x 20 has a scratch on six pieces about three inches in'. Or, 'three pieces of Museum in this box have a flaw here'. I do sometimes have it replaced, but when you're working to get things done, it's so frustrating to take time with this stuff. First, there's the initial problem, which is a time suck. Then, any more time you spend is even more time lost. After awhile, I start wondering whether I'm Sisyphus, or Bill Murray. Sometimes, we just throw up our hands and keep framing.

Still, I'm thankful Museum exists. For all I know, the Artglass version is better, but our regional suppliers don't stock it.
 

Joe B

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Omega distributes Artglass in the Northeast.
Yes, I know but unfortunately the cost of shipping is not outrageously high for a single shop. Can't make it work without putting together a little coop which but with the loss of frame shops there wouldn't be enough shops contributing to make it affordable. I can, and will when possible, have friends when they are in the Chicago area pick up a few cases. But that would be seldom since most people fly there and it is hard to stuff a box of 32 X 40 in the overheads :icon11:
 
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neilframer

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I will post what I find when I get into the 36" x 48" in the next day or so.
So, I have used a number of 40" x 60" Museum glass lites lately and also 32" x 40" lites without any major issues.
I said that I would post about the 36" x 48" Museum glass because I had some jobs coming up and the 36" x 48" seemed to be the size in question with quality issues.

I have done these jobs now with the 36" x 48" and I haven't had an issue...thank goodness...:cool:
It might be that we are in one of the largest cities and we get the glass with less "traveling" although our LJ Phoenix warehouse has recently closed so the LJ stuff now comes from LA.
We still have a CMI warehouse and an International warehouse that are local.

I have mentioned in a previous post about not sliding the Museum glass out of the box, take it out of the open front of the box.
Always wear gloves when handling.
Also, be very careful cutting the glass on the wall cutter.
We have 2 Fletcher 3100's and the same applies to the 3000.
Use a backing behind the glass and don't slide against the cutter.

We are also using some ArtGlass AR70 and some ArtGlass AR99.
Used a piece of ArtGlass AR99 today that had a black speck embedded in the glass.....:faintthud:
(I spotted it because I have X-ray eyes...o_O)
Oh, well....:icon9:
 
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wvframer

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There is something weird about the way the quality control issues are spread out geographically. It is interesting that Joe is within a few miles of manufacture and he has lots of problems, and I have next to no problems in WV.

I think about the old adage about not buying a Monday car. My distributor is buying by the trailer load and it moves less than 5 miles to get to me.
 
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This seems like an ok thread to bring this up on, because I've been struggling to clean my museum glass as well. I tend to use my rubber glass handling gloves when lifting a heavy lite, and it makes marks on the glass that are even HARDER to clean than fingerprints or the waves I get from humidity settling under the plastic divider sheets. Usually I use TruVue's ammonia free glass cleaner. Even with that, I have to alternate wet and dry kim wipes and heavy pressure to remove whatever residue my gloves are depositing on the surface. Getting frustrated with marks on an oversize lite today, I spotted some lighter fluid in a corner of the shop and on a whim I tested it on a spare lite that I purposefully marked up. PEOPLE.... It turned crystal clear with 5% of the effort I was putting in before! I just.... don't know how it affects the UV film if it does at all. The type I used was Ronsonol lighter fluid--a light petroleum distillate. In theory though, I just need to clean the exposed side at this point which I don't think has any UV film on it, so it should be safe. I just wonder if it acts like a solvent to the film should I need to use it on the more sensitive side one day. From my chemistry reasoning, it just acts like alcohol to strip the grease, but I notice that some specialty glass cleaners are both ammonia AND alcohol free. Is even a fast evaporating solvent like alcohol that damaging to UV film?
 

Ylva

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Go to the TV website and request their gloves, for free. I use both the cotton as well as the other ones. You can order three pairs of each at the time. I love them and use them all the time.
 
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