Help To stretch or not to stretch?

HollyGerberz

Grumbler in Training
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Canton,GA
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Framing Manager Box Store
Hi there, baby framer here just looking for some advice/tips on how to handle certain canvas. I have recently been getting more and more “canvas” prints that my customers are ordering from Amazon or Temu to have framed. They seem to be digital prints on a canvas like material however the material doesn’t feel or behave like other canvas I’ve worked with before. Very similar in feeling to the material diamond art is done on.
I was told recently by another framer that they MUST be put onto a stretcher bar in order to be mounted and framed. However most of my customers are not pay that extra price and just want the prints in a mat and cool frame.
I guess my questions are:
1. Do cheaply produced “canvas” prints need to be stretched no exceptions?
2. If so should I then also be stretching the diamond art that comes into the shop?
3. If stretching is not necessary what mounting techniques are you guys using?
4. Can I start recommending glazing these types of projects?
I just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing for my customers and their art.
I’m open to any and all tips/techniques/resources/recommendations you can give me!
Thank you in advance
 
Hi Holly, and welcome to the G.
Stretching is the traditional method for paintings on canvas, but digitally produced art opens up other options.
If you have the capability to dry mount items, MountCor Canvas foam centered board is an option if the synthetic fabric used can withstand the heat.
I have dry mounted digital prints on canvas, and treated them as if they were on paper with matting and glazing, but I have no experience with the synthetic material.
As for the diamond dot art, it has been discussed at length here, and you can search for those discussions. The Search feature is in the upper right.
 
If prints are done on canvas they should ideally be mounted on bars, preferably with expandable corners.
The term 'stretching' is slightly misleading. They should be pulled taught so there are no waves, but not
stretched as such. Otherwise, why print on canvas? If they were intended to be matted then they should be
printed on paper. Matting a canvas print is rather counterintuitive to me. A matted print needs glazing, canvas
prints don't. (As long as they are done properly).

Of course, there is no good reason why they can't be matted and glazed but in that case drymounting is preferable
to hinging in the traditional way. Canvas behaves differently to paper and you are unlikely to get it to stay flat.
Also, if the print is large then the weight of the glass can be a prob. Why hang a huge sheet of glass when a stretched
canvas will be far lighter. You could hang it without a frame and lots of people do. 😆
 
A good non-confrontational question to ask any customer is to ask "how long do you expect to have this art displayed"? This will open up the positive conversation with the customer and the shop. You can show them your concern in properly handling their items. It also gives the sales person the ability to offer suggestions for "sell-up" alternatives. Because they cheaped-out on buying an imported digital print on canvas doesn't mean that there is any relationship to the cost of domestic services for its framing.

Just a thought, with you being member of a large organization, have you asked your immediate field supervisor as to that they have as a suggestion to handle customer relations like this?
 
A good non-confrontational question to ask any customer is to ask "how long do you expect to have this art displayed"? This will open up the positive conversation with the customer and the shop. You can show them your concern in properly handling their items. It also gives the sales person the ability to offer suggestions for "sell-up" alternatives. Because they cheaped-out on buying an imported digital print on canvas doesn't mean that there is any relationship to the cost of domestic services for its framing.

Just a thought, with you being member of a large organization, have you asked your immediate field supervisor as to that they have as a suggestion to handle customer relations like this?
I plan to talk to my boss today about this concern to see if we can find out how other stores/managers are handling these types of orders. I wanted to post here and get an outside framers perspective first so I can have some solutions already prepared. Thank you for all the information so far!
 
All of your responses have been very helpful so far, thank you for taking time to help me. My follow up question now would be, if a customer comes in with a cheap print that they want matted and framed would I be doing them a massive disservice by doing so? Would I be completely in the wrong for educating them on the potential consequences of their design choices (not stretching, matting, glazing, ect) but still allowing them to frame their art how they want? I understand that with traditional painted canvas these things are mandatory and necessary to safe guard the art. But are they with a $30 print from Temu? I believe most people are purchasing these prints without the understanding of how one would typically frame a canvas so would I be wrong for allowing them to follow through with their design choices?
 
Digital 'paintings' and diamond art I usually dry mount on MountCor for canvas. It has a stronger adhesive than regular MountCor, and is acid-free. It's much cheaper than stretching which makes the customer happy. The cheap material the digital prints come on often needs re-stretching over time. Our shop has a policy now that there is a charge for re-stretching these. If it goes out our door tight, but loosens over time, it's the material's fault, not ours.
 
I second what Echobelly just said. I've had prints like this sag over time. Putting them on adjustable stretcher bars helps, but you will still potentially have the customer showing up every so often to have the bars adjusted. The other concern is these types of prints are known to fade rather rapidly because the inks used are usually the cheapest the manufacturer could find. UV glazing helps, but customers tend to balk at the cost.
 
Welcome to the G!

These are cheap prints and in general easily replaceable. If you have a dry mount press, dry mount them. It's not on canvas, it's usually a plasticky material that sort of looks like canvas (but not really). Be careful with temperature, this kind of material can melt easily

I highly doubt these could be cleaned in any way, so glass might be a good option. That's up to your customer, only thing you can do is educate them.

I do not have a dry mount press. If I get things like this in, I either just sandwich them between plexiglass and foamboard, or mat and put glass on it. If they don't want glass, I use perfect mount (self adhesive foam board)
 
Welcome to the G!

These are cheap prints and in general easily replaceable. If you have a dry mount press, dry mount them. It's not on canvas, it's usually a plasticky material that sort of looks like canvas (but not really). Be careful with temperature, this kind of material can melt easily

I highly doubt these could be cleaned in any way, so glass might be a good option. That's up to your customer, only thing you can do is educate them.

I do not have a dry mount press. If I get things like this in, I either just sandwich them between plexiglass and foamboard, or mat and put glass on it. If they don't want glass, I use perfect mount (self adhesive foam board)
Thank you so much! That’s the perfect way to describe the material I’m referring to. They truly don’t have any give to them and in the past when I have stretched larger cheap prints they have ended up looking scratched because the ink has flaked off due to the tension. I do have a dry mount, but can you put a mat around a dry mount if the customer wants one?
 
Thank you so much! That’s the perfect way to describe the material I’m referring to. They truly don’t have any give to them and in the past when I have stretched larger cheap prints they have ended up looking scratched because the ink has flaked off due to the tension. I do have a dry mount, but can you put a mat around a dry mount if the customer wants one?
Yes, I don't see why not? But it will need glass to protect the mat
 
Thank you so much! That’s the perfect way to describe the material I’m referring to. They truly don’t have any give to them and in the past when I have stretched larger cheap prints they have ended up looking scratched because the ink has flaked off due to the tension. I do have a dry mount, but can you put a mat around a dry mount if the customer wants one?
I'm not sure I understand the challenge here. Just mount the piece to the center of an oversized mount board, over mat and trim the excess.
 
Diamond dots I've dry mounted.

The cheapy "canvas prints" I've hinge mounted and stretched. Usually depends on whether the image extends to the edge of the "canvas" or if there's a white margin around it - in other words, is the customer willing to lose the edge 1+" of the image to stretching?

In many cases though, as soon as the customer learns how much it will cost to custom frame their $30 "canvas" print, they usually walk over to the premade frame aisles.
 
It's a sad fact that cheapo prints can often involve more expensive framing practises/materials.
They are often very delicate and have inherent shortcomings that the framer has to mitigate.
We've all had vacation souvenir 'bedsheet' paintings that are a nightmare to stretch.
"What do you mean $600 just to stretch it? I only paid $5 for it". 🙄

"You can't make a Silk Purse out of a Sow's Ear" as we say over here. 🤣
 
It's a sad fact that cheapo prints can often involve more expensive framing practises/materials.
They are often very delicate and have inherent shortcomings that the framer has to mitigate.
We've all had vacation souvenir 'bedsheet' paintings that are a nightmare to stretch.
"What do you mean $600 just to stretch it? I only paid $5 for it". 🙄

"You can't make a Silk Purse out of a Sow's Ear" as we say over here. 🤣
Dear God, yes.

We had the Van Gogh traveling exhibit come through here several years back and had quite a few people show up with the souvenir poster wanting it framed. It was some stupid measurement like 12" tall and 24" wide or something. Completely non-standard. Most lost interest when they found out it would be $150+ to custom frame their $20 poster. 😲

On the plus side, it was a cool looking poster and one of the joys of this business is seeing some nice art come through the door.
 
I heckin love mountcor canvas. I rarely even attempt to stretch the cheapo nylon canvas prints that come in because as mentioned, they will stretch to the point where the inks flake off. I've used it on originals paintings under a certain value as well, with clear explanations and permission. Like I had a few paintings come in from a safari trip to Kenya with absolutely no margins, and my customer fell in love with a pretty shallow frame and obviously wanted to save money since she had so much art to frame at once. They worked out so perfectly. Also recently had a non-framing type customer that was just trying to mount a fabric panel in the back of a shelving unit. He wanted me to cut down a piece of foamcore to wrap the fabric scrap around and I convinced him to let me do one better and drymount it to mountcor canvas so it would finish ironing out all the little folds. Looked so pro.
Also as mentioned, I use it on diamond dot paintings all the time. I used to use the peel and stick self adhesive foamcore, but over a certain size, the weight of the beads is enough to pull it away and make waves... or occasionally you'll get one in that has a bit of a fold in it from being squashed while rolled in the package. Drymounting will help smooth out and adhere it strongly to overcome both unsightly problems.

Starting in a background where we drymounted almost NOTHING, I've sortof surprised myself lately at the things I am routinely comfortable recommending that technique for.
 
If prints are done on canvas they should ideally be mounted on bars, preferably with expandable corners.
The term 'stretching' is slightly misleading. They should be pulled taught so there are no waves, but not
stretched as such. Otherwise, why print on canvas? If they were intended to be matted then they should be
printed on paper. Matting a canvas print is rather counterintuitive to me. A matted print needs glazing, canvas
prints don't. (As long as they are done properly).

Of course, there is no good reason why they can't be matted and glazed but in that case drymounting is preferable
to hinging in the traditional way. Canvas behaves differently to paper and you are unlikely to get it to stay flat.
Also, if the print is large then the weight of the glass can be a prob. Why hang a huge sheet of glass when a stretched
canvas will be far lighter. You could hang it without a frame and lots of people do. 😆
Professional artist and former picture framer here. In my opinion nothing should ever be stretched. Stretched canvas is far more susceptible to expansion and contraction issues with changes in weather/temperature/humidity etc. This leads to waviness on some days and tautness on other days. With original paintings, this leads to cracking over time. With prints, perhaps not so much, but the waviness is still an issue. Especially with those cheap print on demand canvas that is some sort of plastic material. They are especially prone to sagging.

Canvas can be and should be mounted onto a rigid support. But that does not mean it needs to be matted and glazed. I agree with you, if it's on canvas what is the point in glazing it? A mounted canvas print left unglazed and framed as a painting would has the same appearance of a stretched canvas without the waviness issue.

As an fyi, for my original paintings, I mount my linen canvas to acm (aluminum composite material). I use solid core for smaller sizes and corrugated core for larger sizes. They are far more rigid than foam core and don't bow or buckle. They are quite light weight relatively speaking (not as light as foam core or gatorboard, though). I realize most people wouldn't use acm for prints, but it is a great product to look into for those rare occasions that you need something more durable that foamcore.
 
Bondartistbond; I agree that everyone is allowed to voice their opinion on what they do.
If that is the case that 'nothing should be stretched', why is it the #1 method still used by museums around the world as well as many professional artists for their paintings.

With the world of art and picture framing framing being a very broad conversation topic there is room for many options based on many varied situations with the most being - in no specific order:
  • customer expectations
  • customer budget
  • expected use
  • display requirement
  • environmental conditions
  • value of the art
  • liability for viewers, the display area, and the art
You have not identified your picture framing experience to this group other than you were a picture framer. Some of us on this forum have decades of picture framing experience in all levels of this industry. Some of us also have knowledge far beyond that of basic picture framing.
 
Hi Bondartistbond and welcome to the G.

Is that like Bond, James Bond, or more like Run Forest, Run!?

I see your point, and wish that framers were able to be more involved in the prep rather than having to try to correct botched technology well after the fact.

At the certain risk of being redundant; The artist is free to make decisions about the treatment of their art, whereas the framer is limited to providing the least damaging methods of preservation and display with whatever comes through the door. As a former framer you should have been exposed to those challenges.

It would be a wonderful world if all art somehow magically appeared already mounted, but that is far from the reality, and the specifics here are even more limited because of perceived value. Mounting to ACM isn't inexpensive, and it is highly doubtful it would be a high demand item with tourist trade items such as the ones mentioned in this thread along with the diamond dot art.
The other twist is that mounting paintings to a solid backing after they have been painted comes with their own sets of challenges and limitations.

Mounting canvas to ACM in advance of painting sounds like a smart move, but this is the first instance I have ever heard of doing that.
One of my concerns would be the reversibility of such a mount if it became necessary. Something to kick down the road to a conservator of the future...
 
Bondartistbond; I agree that everyone is allowed to voice their opinion on what they do.
If that is the case that 'nothing should be stretched', why is it the #1 method still used by museums around the world as well as many professional artists for their paintings.

With the world of art and picture framing framing being a very broad conversation topic there is room for many options based on many varied situations with the most being - in no specific order:
  • customer expectations
  • customer budget
  • expected use
  • display requirement
  • environmental conditions
  • value of the art
  • liability for viewers, the display area, and the art
You have not identified your picture framing experience to this group other than you were a picture framer. Some of us on this forum have decades of picture framing experience in all levels of this industry. Some of us also have knowledge far beyond that of basic picture framing.
Valid point about museums stretching instead of mounting. But, that is because as preservationists / conservationists, museums prefer to keep the artwork as close to how it was originally created/displayed as possible. If the original was created as a stretched canvas, the museum will preserve it on a stretched canvas. If the original was painted on panel, the museum will preserve it on panel. Altering it from its original state would decrease the value of it. Museums don't necessarily do what's best for the longevity of the artwork. They do what is historically accurate and in keeping with it's original state. Altering that state could decrease it's perceived value in the market.

But evidence is quite clear that the expansion and contraction of the support is one of the leading causes of cracking in the paint film of a work of art. Yes there are other factors at play, but even the best practices to minimize those issues are largely negated by the instability of stretched canvas. Stretched canvas expands and contracts far more than any other option. Wood panels also expand and contract, but not as badly as a stretched canvas. Foam core and gator board also expand and contract. But again, not as much as a stretched canvas. I use ACM for my original art. Of all the options available to an artist, ACM or copper panels are the most dimensionally stable options and therefore provide the most protection against cracking of the paint film.

When it comes to inexpensive prints, crafts, or art then my opinion is more a matter of aesthetics. The waviness from a stretched canvas is unsightly.

Regarding many professional artists using stretched canvas, some prefer the "bounce" that occurs when applying the brush to canvas. It's a matter of the way it feels. Many artists also don't know how to prepare their canvases and simply purchase pre-stretched canvases from art stores. Others simply do it out of tradition. Others simply haven't educated themselves on what other options are out there. For the amateur artist, the art student, and many professional artists, they choose stretched canvas out of convenience and cost.

I have been a professional artist for nearly 30 years. I sell my original art. It is my only source of income. I used to stretch my own canvas, but learned of the inferiority of it many years ago. I then began to mount my canvas to wood panels, but larger sizes became problematic. I then used gatorboard, which can be a great option, but it is very easy to puncture and the edges and corners are easy to damage. When I discovered ACM, that was a game changer.

As a professional artist, I know a lot of other professional artist. The amount of professional artists painting on a rigid support (whether cradled wood panels, gatorboard, or ACM) is actually a very large percent. I can't speak for all sectors of the art world, but in the realm that I am most familiar with, which is representational art, many if not most artists in the top levels paint on a rigid support. Of those who I know personally, which are many, nearly all of them use a rigid support. Of those who are represented by the same galleries as me, I see their work in the galleries, most of them are on rigid supports. When I attend major shows and visit other galleries where other top artists exhibit, most of them are on rigid supports. Many of the artists I follow, but don't know personally, show their process on IG or Facebook. A large percentage of them use a rigid support.

In short, the top representational artists in the country are using rigid supports because it preserves their artwork better. From my experience, the up-and-coming artists, students, and amateurs are the ones primarily using stretched canvas. I know this is purely anecdotal, but we artists do talk among ourselves and those who are the most serious are very aware of best practices in regards to how to ensure their art lasts.

And finally, you asked me about my experience. Before diving into art full-time, I worked for 7 years in the picture framing industry. Most of that time was in your typical frame shop framing for everyday customers. Everything from cross stitch to photographs and shadow boxes etc. The last 2 years was at a shop that mostly did very high-end framing. We're talking hand-carved, hand-gilt karat leaf museum quality frames. During the entire 7 years I was also an aspiring artist. When I quit my "day job" to become a full time artist, I built my own frames from scratch...meaning...raw basswood molding, hand carved elements in the corners, hand gilt with either karat gold or imitation gold. Patina applied by hand. For many years I made my own frames and still do on occasion, but since it takes longer to build a frame than to do the painting, I now buy most of my frames from professional gilders. The frames I use are now exclusively karat gold (no imitation gold) on hand carved museum quality frames. I sometimes use a black frame with only gold on the lip. But again, it's karat gold and hand crafted frames. Closed corners. No chop frames.

As for my stretching vs mounting experience, again, 30+ years.

I do realize that for certain situations stretching is the better option based on the points you list. But in my opinion, those situations are rare. But in most cases, mounting is a far better option, whether cost, aesthetics, or conservation of the artwork. If I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a rare, historical, expensive work by an old master, I wouldn't mount that either. Why? The same reason the museums wouldn't. Because that is not how the artist did it. It would devalue the work because it would alter it from its original condition. Though I would argue that it would hold up better in the long term if it was mounted. Sometimes concessions are made.

Anyway, those are my two cents worth.

Yes, there are those that disagree. And that's fine. I did start my original statement saying it was my opinion.
 
As an artist, you can create your art any way you see fit. So we are basically all saying the same thing here. As a framer, you cannot alter the art (and permanently mounting is altering of course)

What do you use to mount canvas to ACM? We have had that question a few times, so would be good to know what works well and how you do it?

I don't mind stretched canvas, as long as they have the keys. Most ripples or sagging are easily 'tapped away'. If there is enough space in the frame of course.

For framers, a lot of times we deal with artists who didn't do their due diligence and now expect the framer to provide a solution for their already finished art.

We all have examples like that. For me: a pastel artist who created a pastel extremely oversized and framed it with plexiglass. Artist sold it and then the clients came back because the plexiglass was pulling the pastel off the background. They wanted a refund or a solution.

At that point, the only solution I could provide was Optium Museum Acrylic. Of course the artwork sold for less than the price of that.

I don't know how it ended. Probably a refund.
 
Hi Bondartistbond and welcome to the G.

Is that like Bond, James Bond, or more like Run Forest, Run!?

I see your point, and wish that framers were able to be more involved in the prep rather than having to try to correct botched technology well after the fact.

At the certain risk of being redundant; The artist is free to make decisions about the treatment of their art, whereas the framer is limited to providing the least damaging methods of preservation and display with whatever comes through the door. As a former framer you should have been exposed to those challenges.

It would be a wonderful world if all art somehow magically appeared already mounted, but that is far from the reality, and the specifics here are even more limited because of perceived value. Mounting to ACM isn't inexpensive, and it is highly doubtful it would be a high demand item with tourist trade items such as the ones mentioned in this thread along with the diamond dot art.
The other twist is that mounting paintings to a solid backing after they have been painted comes with their own sets of challenges and limitations.

Mounting canvas to ACM in advance of painting sounds like a smart move, but this is the first instance I have ever heard of doing that.
One of my concerns would be the reversibility of such a mount if it became necessary. Something to kick down the road to a conservator of the future...
Yes, I acknowledge the challenges faced by a framer dealing with whatever the customer brings through the door. I do know that working with something less than ideas may result in a less than ideal solution. That said, I do stand by my opinion that whenever possible, mounting is superior to stretching.

Regarding mounting canvas to ACM prior to painting, it is more common than you think. It is fairly expensive, as you say. It is primarily used by the top level professional artists who command a high price for their paintings. There is a company Artefex that makes and sells them. I make my own as do several artists I know. It is less common than cradled wood panel, but becoming increasingly popular because it is dimensionally more stable than wood and lighter weight (when using corrugated ACM).

I also use an adhesive which is removable with gentle heat. I don't know what adhesive Artefex uses. But conservation is important to me. I will say, though, that on the occasion I did use an adhesive that isn't intended to be removable, I am able to remove it from the ACM because it is so smooth. Even though I lightly sand it to improve the mechanical bond, it is still smooth enough that linen can be removed with care.

But you are absolutely correct, for most customers walking through the door of their local frame shop, ACM is not the right product. I only mentioned it for those very rare framing projects as an option to consider.
 
As an artist, you can create your art any way you see fit. So we are basically all saying the same thing here. As a framer, you cannot alter the art (and permanently mounting is altering of course)

What do you use to mount canvas to ACM? We have had that question a few times, so would be good to know what works well and how you do it?

I don't mind stretched canvas, as long as they have the keys. Most ripples or sagging are easily 'tapped away'. If there is enough space in the frame of course.

For framers, a lot of times we deal with artists who didn't do their due diligence and now expect the framer to provide a solution for their already finished art.

We all have examples like that. For me: a pastel artist who created a pastel extremely oversized and framed it with plexiglass. Artist sold it and then the clients came back because the plexiglass was pulling the pastel off the background. They wanted a refund or a solution.

At that point, the only solution I could provide was Optium Museum Acrylic. Of course the artwork sold for less than the price of that.

I don't know how it ended. Probably a refund.
I agree that you shouldn't alter original art without the actual artist's consent. I think it is okay if you offer an artist the option to mount their original art. Explaining the pros and cons of course. Sometimes artists don't know those pros and cons. As you say, they didn't do their due diligence. I would not mount original art if the customer was not the artist unless there was no excess canvas to allow for stretching.

Regarding how I mount canvas to ACM. I have tried several different adhesives and they all work, each having it's pros and cons.

Regular PVA glue works. Preferably ph neutral such as Lineco or something similar. I currently use Beva Gel which is more expensive, but it is reversible with heat. Miracle much also works, but I haven't used that in many many years. With unfinished linen or canvas (or any fabric - even muslin), you can use something like acrylic matte or gloss medium. They each have their own methods but are also similar to each other. I would not recommend using a spray adhesive if using linen or canvas unless it is lightweight and unprimed.

Sanding the ACM lightly prior to applying the glue is important to create a mechanical bond in addition to the chemical bond. I usually use about 180 grit sandpaper with a random orbit sander. You can go as high as 220 grit, but I prefer just a bit more tooth.

Depending on the type of glue, either apply glue to the panel, the canvas, or both. With PVA I apply it to both. With Beva Gel, I apply it to the panel. There is a learning curve for sure. There are many YouTube videos showing how to mount canvas to rigid panels. Most of the videos aren't necessarily specific to ACM. There are several different methods used by different artists. Most of those methods work on ACM as well. Sometimes minor modifications are needed.

Cut the canvas oversized by about an inch allowing half inch on each edge. Work from the center outward to lay it down and remove the air bubbles. If the canvas has not yet been painted on, I use either a squeegy made of rubber or silicone. Brayers also work, though not quite as easily in my opinion. If the canvas has already been painted on, then I use high quality wallpaper smoother brush made specifically for delicate surfaces. The one I use is made by Corona and is called a wallpaper smoother. It is about 12 inches wide with soft hairs. Here's a link, hopefully it works: https://thepaintstore.com/products/corona-wallpaper-smoother-black-nylon?variant=44778991354132&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JAFsnzszbKr6bzPCUett-1VUNDEct_WsOFakpQu_JdaGcG89YCYXC8aAkg3EALw_wcB Corona Wallpaper Smoother 6930 Black Nylon

After working out the bubble and laying the canvas down, put the panel under weight or pressure. I usually use clamps, but sometimes just weights works. Let the glue dry. Then trim off the excess canvas. Depending on the glue and quality of canvas, some shrinkage will occur.

Unfortunately it's too complex to fully explain the mounting process in this reply, but it is easy enough to learn with a bit of practice. Watch some of those videos and experiment on cheap plywood, particle board, or gatorboard panels first Then try it on smaller sizes of ACM. Larger panels are of course more difficult to do without getting a few air bubbles in it. But it IS possible to remove the air bubbles. Hope this helps.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the adhesives mentioned are all liquid. That eliminates the actual reversal of the mount because it soaks into the fiber of the canvas. It may allow you to lift the canvas from the panel, but it still leaves, for good or bad, the adhesive in the canvas. Archival mounts should be totally reversible, including any adhesive residue.
That would pretty much eliminate it from the framer's bag of tricks except in the case of "disposable" art, and then the process would be too costly.

What you are doing is essentially lining the canvas with an ACM panel. Canvases are lined when their fibers start to fail, or there is physical damage, so the use of permanent adhesives (BeVA or RSG) is acceptable to consolidate and repair.

Again, you can do as you wish to your art. Framers don't have that leeway when it comes to 3rd party owned pieces. If lining the canvas is needed the job is best handled by a trained conservator.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the adhesives mentioned are all liquid. That eliminates the actual reversal of the mount because it soaks into the fiber of the canvas. It may allow you to lift the canvas from the panel, but it still leaves, for good or bad, the adhesive in the canvas. Archival mounts should be totally reversible, including any adhesive residue.
That would pretty much eliminate it from the framer's bag of tricks except in the case of "disposable" art, and then the process would be too costly.

What you are doing is essentially lining the canvas with an ACM panel. Canvases are lined when their fibers start to fail, or there is physical damage, so the use of permanent adhesives (BeVA or RSG) is acceptable to consolidate and repair.

Again, you can do as you wish to your art. Framers don't have that leeway when it comes to 3rd party owned pieces. If lining the canvas is needed the job is best handled by a trained conservator.
I agree with you regarding framing third party owned pieces. Despite my assertion that mounting would be better for the item over time, I agree that framers don't have the right to do that without the consent of the artist. I failed to make that distinction in my original comment. I was just pointing out the science of what would prolong the life of the art. You and others correctly were looking at things from the ethical point of view of altering someone else's art. And rightfully so. I should have been more clear on my original comment. I am in complete agreement with you on that.

But for cheap prints on cheap canvas, I would absolutely recommend mounting.

Beva Gel is reversible. The gel can be reactivated and removed, especially when it is used in conjunction with Beva 371. Not being a trained conservator nor a chemist, I don't know for certain about whether the gel gets absorbed into the fibers on a molecular level. But I do know that the gel can be completely removed from the surface of the canvas unlike pva.

As a side note, adhering canvas to a rigid panel prior to artwork being created is very common among professional artists. Whether it is technically called lining or mounting is beside the point. It is considered a professional way to prepare a substrate to paint on, widely accepted in the art world. I will add, though, that many inferior practices are also widely accepted. So I will concede that. LOL.
 
As mentioned somewhere back in the beginning of this thread, the product MountCor Canvas is ideal for mounting tourist trade pieces as long as there's not too much relief in the paint (impasto). Faster and less expensive than proper stretching, and is thin enough (~1/4") to allow for a bargain frame.

Mounting canvas or paper to panel, usually a thick paper stock, has been around for a while. I have worked on a couple of vintage pieces that were on a stretched pastel paper on a solid cardboard panel with a wire edge. They were of French manufacture, mid-late 19th century.
 
Hi Holly,
I drymount most all canvas prints and up to 40 x 60” to prevent the print slippage in the frame. Only a very few want the cost of stretching added. I do mat and glaze these. I do require stretching on all actual paintings. This comes from a big box framing manager. Being a big box you’re limited in mounting. Now bigger than 40x60” is definitely a stretch situation, being a big box I doubt you can drymount larger than that as well.
 
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