Title or Credential?

[Jim Miller]

Another thread frankenthreaded into a discussion about titles & credentials, which is unrelated to the original topic. Let's give this new topic a thread of its own...

The difference between a title and a credential is more than a matter of semantics.

Title is defined by the dictionary as: "...a descriptive or distinctive appellation, esp. one belonging to a person by right of rank, office, attainment, etc.: the title of Lord Mayor." A King or Queen may bestow the title of Knight or Lord. There is probably some sort of achievement or authority being recognized with that, but it may not be quantifiable or qualifiable by any standard. Proving knowledge, achievement, or anything else probably is not involved. Passing a specific, standardized test is probably not involved. So, a title mostly represents the opinion of the person or group that bestows it, with no real evidence of what it represents.

Credential is defined as: .."Evidence or testimonials concerning one's right to credit, confidence, or authority: The new ambassador presented her credentials to the president." Unlike titles, credentials come with evidence. Credentials are earned by some specific achievement, not simply bestowed. "Doctor" is a credential, not a title, because it is earned by specific achievement in standardized education and training. There is evidence; proof of what he/she has done to become a doctor.

"Certified Picture Framer" (CPF), "Master Certified Picture Framer" (MCPF), and Guild Commended Framer (GCF) are earned credentials, because they all involve specific achievement; passing standardized tests. And the two PPFA credentials also require continuing education in order to maintain the credentials. Otherwise, they expire, and no longer apply (exception: grandfathered CPFs). In any case there is evidence. There is proof of what he/she has done to earn the designation.

...I DO call myself a CPF or Certified Picture Framer because I earned my certification from PPFA in 1994 and recertified in 1998, 2002 and 2006. Officially, and on my business cards I am Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF® Master Framer. I don't think I'm violating any trademarks or codes of ethics by doing this...or am I?...

You are most certainly entitled to the CPF-R designation for as long as you are currently Recertified and recognized by PPFA. Kudos to you for earning and maintaining that credential. But when you combine your earned credential with the title of "Master", which is someone's opinion and not an earned credential, misunderstanding may be invited. I doubt you would hear from PPFA about it, so long as you make sure CPF-R is well separated from "Master", so that it could not be mistaken as "Master CPF" which collides with PPFA's MCPF, an earned credential.

...People have rightly called themselves Master Craftsmen(women) for centuries; those doing such having earned the title by virtue of their work and experience....

That may be true, but such titles also are used unrightly, too. Centuries ago there were no testing agencies and in many cases, no established standards. Seth, your title of "Master Framer" represents your position of authority in your shop, and that may be all your coworkers/subordinates need to know. However, the title is not verifiable, and your qualifications as a "Master" may be entirely different than those of another framer, in another shop across the street, who is also called "Master" by his subordinates. When you say "earned the title", what exactly does that involve?

If a King or a President ceremoniously touched my shoulder and dubbed me a "Master Framer", what would that mean? What would be that title's value to me as a picture framer? What would that title represent to others who do not know me personally? It would represent nothing specific to my customers or my peers.

These days in our industry, standards are clearly established, and credentials may be earned to certify certain levels of knowledge and skill according to those standards. Unlike a title, a credential recognizes specific achievement, which is absolutely verifiable and credible. That is, if anyone wants to know what it takes to become a CPF or MCPF or GCF, the sponsoring groups will gladly share information about those standardized exam programs.

 

[Steph]

I have to say Jim I was a little taken aback that you took Seth to task in the other thread. Could it be that you are taking his reference to himself as a Master Framer too personally? I just don't see the harm, or what the fuss is about. Quite frankly I don't see where he put CPF and Master near each other. I hope you haven't just opened a can of worms.

 

[JbNormandog]

Bottom line is ANY board that does it's own testing ppfa - Michaels or whoever still tests on what IT thinks is acceptable.

I could start a new group next week and set my standards even higher than the other two listed. Will it carry any more or less merit? No

Reallistically, there is no licensing or college degree for what we do. And I am sure I will get piled on for this but really I DON'T CARE about what anybody calls themselves. If I want to be the Master Framer here, I am. If I want to go by what the ppfa wants to call me, I can do that to.

Initials DON'T MATTER, the customers don't know or care about whatever you feel like calling yourselves.

If you are displaying the initials as a sign of recognition for things you have accomplished, good for you, you deserve it for the hard work you put into it.

If you are using them to validate what you do, then I think you have issues better suited for a profesional therapist. (You can actually check their intials with the government)

I am a real good framer, I don't care what the ppfa or MADD or pmrc or DNC or NASA thinks. The only thing that matters are my customers.

Had to vent, just get a bit tired of the semantics and self righteous attitude on here.

Bob (Framer of the first degree of the honorary matt cutters association)

Here come the arrows..........







.

 

[RoboFramer]

Absolutely agree Bob.


If I put a qualification after my name I'd want it to represent something I sweated for - and I don't mean in experience blah blah blah. I mean in time spent at the institution that taught and practiced me in skills before testing me.

The letters after my name in my signature stand for Best Framer in Angmering - I use it in some correspondence - no-one asks me what it means - no-one cares. But it's true!

 

[FrameMakers]

I could start the Society of Custom Picture Framers and we could give out our own 3 letters. Just send me $10 and you too can become a member and get your letters.
IMO the whole CPF program was designed to sell more books from the PPFA book store. Earning 3 letters, give me a break. I know too many CPFs that know the right way but don't frame that way in practice.

You can mail your checks to:
Society of Custom Picture Framers
9856 Brewster Ln
Powell, Oh 43065

 

[Jim Miller]

...Could it be that you are taking his reference to himself as a Master Framer too personally?

Not at all. I don't take any of this personally, but I have some experience on the topic. Seth and I are friends, and I respect him as a framer. Have you seen his book? This fellow has great experience and knows what he's doing, IMHO, and deserves our respect.

He gave his opinion: "I don't think I'm violating any trademarks or codes of ethics by doing this...or am I?" Since he asked, I replied. He does not use "Master" and "CPF" together, but it could be a problem if he did.

Seth's question inspired this thread to clear the distinction between titles and credentials. Titles are commonly used to establish who's who in a business, and that's what Seth is doing. Many framers could be called "Master" by subordinates in their own shops.

 

[Jim Miller]

I could start the Society of Custom Picture Framers and we could give out our own 3 letters. Just send me $10 and you too can become a member and get your letters.

You're right, Dave. "3 letters" aren't worth much. Your point is well taken; the title you offer would be a $10 ripoff because it isn't earned. Thanks for reinforcing the point I mentioned above.

This was not intended to be a referendum on credentials. Earn them or not. Respect them or not. It's a personal choice. Certification programs are made for framers who believe the education and achievement are worthwhile. Framers who disrespect that kind of achievement might be just as happy with your "3 letters" for $10.

It doesn't matter if you think credentials are trivial, but here's a question: Can you explain why so many framers want to give the impression that they have them, by advertising titles of no substance?

 

[brian..k]

In my 17 years as a picture framer I have never taken the time to take a test that tells me what I already know. I am a highly skilled well educated picture framer or HSWEP. I have framed original paintings by "Master Painters" (who quantified that? But we accept that they are) such as Renoir, Matise, Degas, Monet, Picasso etc. etc. Personaly I think that a CPF title just means you know the things that any decent framer with 4 or 5 years of experience should know. Granted, continuing education is important but I don't need letters after my name to prove that I am on my game. The PPFA didn't make me the framer I am. The hard work and studying I put in made me the framer I am. At the end of the day, my clients content knowledge that their art is being properly cared for by me is all the title/recognition I need.

 

[Framing Goddess]

brian..k, I took the CPF test 5 years ago with a mere 21 years of experience under my belt.

If I would have taken the test without studying, I probably woulda flunked.

Think again.

Edie the eternalstudent goddess

 

[Framer Jim]

It doesn't matter if you think credentials are trivial, but here's a question: Can you explain why so many framers want to give the impression that they have them, by advertising titles of no substance?

The question should be "who determines what is substance? "

The individual framer has determined that what he advertises is important and that creates why it is important. Sometimes it maybe an adjective describing their skill as they view it or as their customers view them.

It is the same as who determines the value of an object being framed. Do you or anyone determine the value of the object or art piece and judge it not to be suitable for framing.

IMO I think that certifications mean nothing to the average customer. As long as the customer gets what they expect; what real difference does it make. No one really looks at framers as being professionals except for other framers.
Most consumers don't go to framer because they are professional; they go because they like the person, the work they do, or the location.

The only time a certication is important is if you must be licenced by the state. Insurance agents, realtors, doctors, financial advisors etc. I don't see any licenced framers,

 

[Bob Carter]

iI will say that Jim Miller may be one of the few people i know that really do not have an agenda when he makes a statement about credentials. i don't think he takes it personally at all

Knowing Seth from this forum, I do not think he is being "cute", either. His "Master" designation is probably deserved, if not officially sanctioned.


We, internally, do designate our counter people as "Design Specialist" and then "Master Design Specialist" on their biz cards. I hope our clients perceive the same level of separation as we do; but, really hope the employees acknowledge the differences, too

 

[brian..k]

brian..k, I took the CPF test 5 years ago with a mere 21 years of experience under my belt.

If I would have taken the test without studying, I probably woulda flunked.

Think again.

Edie the eternalstudent goddess

Not to be argumentative here Edie but in my post I did mention that I think that continuing education is important and that I "study" my trade. I have read many books on framing technique, history and design that far excedes the information required of the CPF testing. I am not saying this to brag mind you.

At 21 years experience did you realy feel that a CPF would change your customers opinion of how you conduct yourself as a framer? Does knowing the proper Ph level of a sheet of acid free matboard or how many 11x14s you can get out of a 32x40 sheet make a diference to the quality you provide to your customers?

 

[FrameMakers]

Edie, not trying to sound flipent, but what was your reason for taking the CPF? Remember education can be had without taking a test.

 

[Jim Miller]

Again, this was not intended to be a referendum on credentials, or whether a framer needs to be certified to be qualified. There are very good framers who have earned no credentials, and I am pleased call a lot of them my friends.

In my limited experience, framers who are interested in verifying their framing knowledge are more humble about their abilities than some who are not, contrary to JBNormandog's comment about "self righteous attitude". To wit:

In my 17 years as a picture framer I have never taken the time to take a test that tells me what I already know. I am a highly skilled well educated picture framer...Personaly I think that a CPF title just means you know the things that any decent framer with 4 or 5 years of experience should know....

How's that for self righteous, JBN? Every time the conversation turns to certification, the "I don't need no stinking test" comments come up. I have personally never heard a CPF or MCPF, or even a GCF say, "I'm a better person than she is because I passed a test".

Knowing that the CPF exam has a failure rate of about 40% for first-time candidates, I seriously question whether some framers who disdain credentials actually know as much as Brian thinks he does, at least about some aspects of framing.

Another comment that usually comes up is something like "If I don't already know it, I don't need to know it", or "Passing a test doesn't prove anything". Well, yes it does. It proves the person who passed the test has acquired the knowledge tested. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jim Miller]

...IMO I think that certifications mean nothing to the average customer.

I think you're right, Framer Jim. To my knowledge, neither PPFA nor FATG promote their certification programs as a marketing benefit. Some who hold the credentials promote them, though.

I believe the main benefits of certification programs are to A) provide a useful study guide for framers who recognize their need for knowledge, and to B) verify knowledge acquired, and to C) provide comprehensive continuing education for framers who want it.

To put it another way, certification is to improve framers, not necessarily to impress customers.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

I love this place!

Thanks Guys for livening up my day.

 

[RoboFramer]

I'll second that - this place always, or sometimes, reminds me of the Monty Python 'Argument' sketch......

"An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition - Not just contradiction"

"No it isn't"

"Yes it is"

"NO it isn't"

Etc

So - is this the 5 minute argument - or the full half hour??

 

[Jay H]

I believe the main benefits of certification programs are to A) provide a useful study guide for framers who recognize their need for knowledge, and to B) verify knowledge acquired, and to C) provide comprehensive continuing education for framers who want it.

To put it another way, certification is to improve framers, not necessarily to impress customers.

I would agree with everything you said, even though I don't see what difference any of this makes. But I would add that a certification program isn't the only way to accomplish A B or C. Nor does a certification guarntee A B or C.

There are plenty of framers, like me, that haven't mustered up the desire to get a CPF. I may one day or maybe not. That doesn't say anything for my skill level. Nothing at all.

In the referenced thread, Seth suggested that his claim wasn't from anybody but his own opinion. Why is that not good enough? His claims seems to align with your defined words.

 

[danny boy]

John, I paid for the full half hour....

 

[Barb Pelton]

I hope I don't regret this....

I will add my 2cents to Jim's ABC's...

I also view the credentials as being valuable to our overall industry; beyond the self. Everyone speaks of educating the consumer of our expertise. It stands to reason that the best way to accomplish this goal is to have industry standards, and in some way, convey to the public that there are standards and that the individual standing before them on the opposite of the counter is one who believes in those standards and can preform the level of work that those standards are based on.

There are so many out there that know so much; are so skilled, and yet do not become PPFA Certified. That is their choice. However, the next time you complain about consumers balking at your prices because it's "just" a frame, or that they "don't get" what we do as opposed to the "other guys (whoever they may be), then please stop and take a step backward so you can see the big picture.

Industry wide certfication is just one piece in the big puzzle of our industry's public image. We will never be viewed as true professionals until we present ourselves as such. I am certain that there are true professionals among us that don't need credentials on a personal level. But please consider for a moment about contributing a little to the industry that you love. The more certified framers there are, the more we all benefit.

 

[Framer Jim]

I would call framing a skilled trade.

 

[Steph]

I must say this thread made my head hurt and still don't quite understand its existance. That being said, I am a grandfathered CPF, took my exam in 1992 and occassionally I consider starting over and recert'ing and going for the MCPF. Mostly for the challenge, personal pride and a chance to pimp out the acchievement, much like I do now.

I'm proud of having become a CPF, but unfortunately where I was employed during that time, we weren't allowed to use our education and knowledge of proper practices. The owner basically just encouraged us to take the exam for his marketing purposes. In fact he took it and passed, and I must say he would be the last person on earth I would allow to frame for me. Because I know how he would really frame it. The certification does no good unless you practice what you learned.

I know framers who are CPF's who do not follow standards, I also know framers with no certification who are true professionals and who I would be proud to have them frame something of my own.

As a framer I have learned volumes about proper framing practices since taking the exam, and take great pride in what I do. But I do think it is important to remember that this program has done so much for the education of the framer but at this point I just don't think it is all it could be. I have never had a customer come in and already know what a CPF is. (I hate when you tell them and they laugh, like you just made this up) But this does pose an interesting question, should this program be marketed to the public more, especaily by the PPFA?

Aside from that, I absolutely can't blame the framers who stood up for their professional abilities and choice to not have taken the CPF exam. If you practice the skills and techniques to frame a piece, and are always looking to educate yourselves in up to date framing practices, well I say my hats off to you. You can call yourself Master Framer anytime in my book. In the same regard, if a framer is a CPF and also abides by the same standards and continue to learn, I don't feel they have to defend why they became a CPF.

So now that the can of worms has spilled out, I think I'll go fishing!

 

[Framar]

OK - Steph, you have gotten me to thinking!

I am also a grandfathered CPF (from 1986) and, aside from the fact that I have never ever used a power saw or an underpinner or a chopper (so MCPF is out of the kwestion for me) I do not think I would bother to pursue any further strings of letters after my name because of the astonished reaction I always have gotten from even my best and oldest customers when they notice those letters after my name on my business card or on my framed certificate that hangs in a prominent location in my shop.

I launch into a perky little speech about "what the framing industry is trying to do with this certification program" and I lose them every time - they are astonished that I refer to an "industry" much less a certification program.

Then they glaze over and their eyes roll up in their heads and my little spiel trails off into silence.

Astonishment is also expressed whenever I have mentioned trade magazines. After I had several articles in DECOR 20 years ago I thought that might impress customers.

"You have trade magazines???"

We have a darned long way to go to educate the public and we have been doing a darned awful job so far.

Mar, CPF, framer since 1969, shop owner since 1982, pessimist since forever.

 

[Rebecca]

Just as a point of clarification re the term "master", traditionally "Master" is an earned title bestowed upon one by a guild after certain criteria are met, it isn't a self bestowed title.

"By the 13th c. to become a guild man one had to go through 3 stages:

lowest was apprentice,
next was journeyman, and
top-ranking stage was master.
The same structure is present in labor unions and colleges today.

Apprentice -- usually a male teenager who went to live with a master and his family; his parents paid to have him taken on. He probably occupied the attic of their 3 story home:

The shop where he would learn his trade was located on the ground floor.
The second story was the masters' living area.
The third story housed the journeyman who was there to learn also.
The apprentice was subject to the master. During his apprenticeship he was not allowed to marry. This learning period might vary from 2-7 years depending on the craft. His training included the rudiments of the trade. The apprentice then progressed to journeyman.

Journeyman or day worker -- entitled to earn a salary.
The next hurdle was to produce a masterpiece that would satisfy the master of the guild so that he could assume the title of master craftsmen and would thus get membership in the guild. This was not easy to accomplish because:

The journeyman had to work on his own time to produce this masterpiece -- Sunday was the only day he did not work sun-up to sun-down.
He must use his own tools and raw materials which required a capital outlay that he might not have been able to accomplish as a wage earner.
Then if he did produce the required work, the state of the economy guided the vote of acceptance -- it was not desriable to have too many masters in a guild and when the economy was tight. The masters would not admit anyone to their ranks to strain the economy.
Master--Once the masterpiece was completed and the guild voted to accept the journeyman as a master, he could become one."

Rebecca

 

[Baer Charlton]

How's that for self righteous, JBN? Every time the conversation turns to certification, the "I don't need no stinking test" comments come up. I have personally never heard a CPF or MCPF, or even a GCF say, "I'm a better person than she is because I passed a test".

I think you might just listen to yourself Jim.

For general information, internationally, the terms Master Framer and Master Picture Framer are registered, copyrighted, trademarked and salesmarked.

Thank you Rebecca. Sometimes the colonists forget what used to pass for common knowledge.

In certain locations that aren't under the recognized domain of PPFA, the "Master" is not always the shop owner... but in all instances is a teacher.
The ability and willingness to teach and pass on experience and education is the most important consideration that is made about a "Journeyman" who wishes to progress to "Master" or "Maesto".

One such organization's motto is "Learn, use/refine, pass on/teach"

and for the lighter side, and something to ponder.. Norm Abrams business card since at least 1983 has read "Master Framer".

 

[Jim Miller]

For general information, internationally, the terms Master Framer and Master Picture Framer are registered, copyrighted, trademarked and salesmarked....

Baer, that tantalizing bit of information begs the question: Who owns the registrations, copyrights, trademarks, and salesmarks on those combinations of words?

PPFA owns the rights and marks for the combinations of letters and words associated with the credentials they offer. I would guess the Fine Art Trade Guild similarly owns the rights and marks for their offered credentials, as well. If there is a third entity in the world that provides professional credentials for picture framers, who is it?

 

[Jim Miller]

Just as a point of clarification re the term "master", traditionally "Master" is an earned title bestowed upon one by a guild after certain criteria are met, it isn't a self bestowed title....
Rebecca

Thanks for that reminder of history, Rebecca. In centuries past, that was a workable way to assure credentials on a local or regional level. That method of passing knowledge from one to another was roughly equivalent to what we call a certification program today, although the results were inconsistent in the olden days. That is, a Master in a particular village did not receive the same training or education as a Master in another village.

Today our industry has two entities that would compare to the "guilds" of past centuries, as you described them: PPFA and FATG. Both of these groups offer educational and certification programs intended to serve the purpose of educating and qualifying picture framers, and they are applied very consistently.

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, credentials come with evidence of accomplishment. The Master, as you described, had to accomplish something specific (if not consistent among them all) in order to earn the right to be called "Master". That is a credential by modern dictionary definition.

In centuries past, if someone claimed to be a "Master" without following the established educational path and earning the blessing of the guild, he might have suffered some consequences. Today, there are no consequences for claiming unearned credentials in our industry.

So, I started this to discuss the difference between a title and a credential, as those terms apply in the 21st century New World. It's OK to have a title, and it's OK to have a credential, but let's not confuse the two. That difference matters.

 

[Framer Jim]

For general information, internationally, the terms Master Framer and Master Picture Framer are registered, copyrighted, trademarked and salesmarked.

I searched the US Patent and Trademark records and found that Master Framer and Master Picture Framer were not copyrighted or trademarked in the US. I also could not find anything about them being registered or salesmarked. I may have just missed it. Where can I find this information?

PPFA is trademarked.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

The race is on!

I will trademark it and charge anyone who wants to use it $19.95 a year.

 

[BUDDY]

Not to muddy the water anymore.

I think this has gone as far astream as it can. If I am not mistaken the entire debate started with the question of whether or not anyone was imitating or unjustly claiming a Registered trademark. Not whether or not the designation was of any value. That would be a question only each individual could answer.

However the imitation and/or deliberate deception practice of useing Self appointed Titles in what seems to be an effort to fool the general consuming public ( and maybe a few In the Industry as well) may be a violation of ANY registered Trade Marks. And IMHO may require the proof of having EARNED the awarding of such.

Now if there are many who have REGISTERED the SAME TITLED that would be a problem for the courts to hash out, when one of the REGISTRANTS decide to litigate what they think is the unjust use of their TM.

I know some think that once a TM/Copy right/ Designation is registered NO ONE else is awarded the same . To that I suggest you do some research. I can quote a few examples if you wish. Some time back I was told that Planned Parenthood Federation of America was the original PPFA by that very organization . Could it be that they registered the Planned Parenthood federation name while Professional Picture Framers Association was also and planned parent hood didn't go by PPFA? I also recently was speaking to an Artist Daniel Rhodes who obtained a COPYRIGHT for a work in 2004 called Cras-De -Lis ( combination of a Crawfish and a Fluer-de-lis deign)only to discover that after Katrina and the surge of interest in Fluer-de-lis designs someone else had registered the NAME Cras-De-Lis after 2005 or in 2006.

My point and a fact I was told directly by the USA copyright office when I registered some of my own art work , was they don't check to see if any other duplicate registrations exist , they leave that to the applicants . all they do is act as REGISTRY and the disputes are settled by the COURTS by who filed first when they are duplicates or which is a recognizable copy of the original when the secondary work ( duplicate work) is registered.

I think if you do some research you may discover other disputes that centered around the use of names like BEEF EATERS. I know of a local Restaurant that was made to change their name when the well know Gin manufacturer obtained a Cease and desist order for the use of their REGISTERED TM name, since that didn't want a Steak restaurant to be associated with their International Distillery.

My point is if you don't see any value in obtaining a CPF. MCPF, GCF that is for you to decide. If however you advertise your own designation that is easily confused for ( deliberately or even unintentionally) a REGISTERED TM name , TITLE, Or Earned Designation you may be subject to litigation from the Legal Holder of such Tile/ Designation/ or CREDENTIAL depending on the Registrants desire to litigate.

But as in a lot of such cases you may be seen as too insignificant to be bothered with or the problem may be too expensive to persue. But IMHO you may be flirting with a court date and that isn't determined by me or any of the violators, that is what the REISTRY system is designed to facilitate. And there are some Titles / Credentials REGISTERED as TM. But that is just my opinion , so roll the dice you may win or they may not choose to litigate.

BUDDY

 

[Framing Goddess]

Not to be argumentative here Edie but in my post I did mention that I think that continuing education is important and that I "study" my trade. I have read many books on framing technique, history and design that far excedes the information required of the CPF testing. I am not saying this to brag mind you.

Brag all you want, brian..k. Anyone here on the Grumble is more likely to be a framer/business person that pursues the most up-to-date information in our biz, so I knew that about you already. BUT, again, I will guarantee that there are some things on that test that you do not yet know.

At 21 years experience did you realy feel that a CPF would change your customers opinion of how you conduct yourself as a framer? Does knowing the proper Ph level of a sheet of acid free matboard or how many 11x14s you can get out of a 32x40 sheet make a diference to the quality you provide to your customers?

I took the test to be sure that what I knew to be proper and up-to-date techniques framing in my little bubble for 21 years, really were. And yes, the more I know about framing from the mundane to the esoteric DO INDEED make a difference to the quality of framing I do. I make no assumptions about my customers' opinions of me. And read Barb's take on 'why take the test,' for an eloquent and wise overview of it all.

brian, if you were to take the test, come back here and report how there was nothing on there you didn't already know and that taking it provided absolutely no benefit to you or your shop, I would have much more respect for your stance. But you have to earn it, not just merely declare it.

For the record, I am not one bit impressed with a CPF designation for many of the reasons stated above; it takes more than a CPF to make a 'master framer.' But before I could dismiss it, I felt I had to know what the heck I was talking about. I call that an Educated Opinion.

edie the timeforadrink goddess

 

[Framerguy]

I think you might just listen to yourself Jim.

For general information, internationally, the terms Master Framer and Master Picture Framer are registered, copyrighted, trademarked and salesmarked.

Thank you Rebecca. Sometimes the colonists forget what used to pass for common knowledge.

In certain locations that aren't under the recognized domain of PPFA, the "Master" is not always the shop owner... but in all instances is a teacher.
The ability and willingness to teach and pass on experience and education is the most important consideration that is made about a "Journeyman" who wishes to progress to "Master" or "Maesto".

One such organization's motto is "Learn, use/refine, pass on/teach"

and for the lighter side, and something to ponder.. Norm Abrams business card since at least 1983 has read "Master Framer".

Baer, that tantalizing bit of information begs the question: Who owns the registrations, copyrights, trademarks, and salesmarks on those combinations of words?

PPFA owns the rights and marks for the combinations of letters and words associated with the credentials they offer. I would guess the Fine Art Trade Guild similarly owns the rights and marks for their offered credentials, as well. If there is a third entity in the world that provides professional credentials for picture framers, who is it?

As the colorful Yogi would have said of this subject, "It's deja vu all over again!!"

 

[FramerDave]

Amazing, simply amazing...

For some reason this one really gets to me. I wish I had the time to organize my thoughts and presents them a bit more coherently, but I'll just have to bullet-point them.

* As Edie mentioned, it's rather fatuous to denigrate and declare worthless a test when one does not even know its content. Reminds me of the HitchHiker who wrote off the FilletMaster as an expensive toy who did not even know the correct price and who had never even used one.

* Sorry, but self-bestowed titles like Master Framer, Framer Extraordinaire or Best Framer Around just do not mean a damned thing outside of your own mind or shop. If a curious customer ever dug deeper for information you'd come off looking pretty silly. "Oh, well yes mam it's a title I made up and gave myself."

* Part of the value of the CPF, MCPF and GCF is that they are portable. They mean the same thing and carry the same weight no matter where a framer goes or works. Unlike the Grand Wizard Poobah of Framing which only means something within the store that bestowed it.

* It's always struck me that people who value "street smarts" and put down "book learning" are the same people who have never set foot inside a college campus or cracked open a book in years. Curious...

* Earning a credential is simply part of being a professional. Are you a professional? Or is this a craft or hobby for you? If you present yourself to your customers as a hobbyist then it's no wonder they always expect a discount or whine about prices. If you don't respect yourself and what you do enough to present yourself in a professional manner why should your customers respect you? I'm talking about something as simple as how you dress. Do you come out of the back room in a filthy apron covered in sawdust? What sort of an impression does that make?

* I don't think I've ever met a framer with CPF, GCF or MCPF after his or her name who considered him or herself to be better than anyone else. Like Jim, I've found them to be more humble. I'm a MCPF and I consider myself to be a pretty good framer and technician who spends a lot of time (too much maybe) learning about our industry and trying to keep on the leading edge. That's it. I'm always a little embarrassed when coworkers brag on me. We used to have someone who told people I had a Master's degree in framing until I set him straight.

 

[FramerDave]

As the colorful Yogi would have said of this subject, "It's deja vu all over again!!"

And there's one easy way to put it all to rest.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Jim Miller]

...it takes more than a CPF to make a 'master framer.' But before I could dismiss it, I felt I had to know what the heck I was talking about. I call that an Educated Opinion.
edie the timeforadrink goddess

Ah, yes. It's hard to beat an Educated Opinion. Kudos to you for making sure yours is that, Edie.

A lot of other Educated Opinion CPFs agree with you, that the CPF program leaves a lot on the table in terms of framing qualifications, not the least of which is shop work. PPFA agrees, too, which is why the MCPF program was developed. The CPF-R is still an important prerequisite, because it establishes an up to date, comprehensive body of information, something like a Bachelor's Degree in framing.

The MCPF is more pointed toward particular framing techniques and manual skills. It is the most thorough test of framing knowledge anyone has developed so far, I believe. You could call it a Master's Degree in framing.

Can't wait to see what comes next. PhD's in framing? There has been talk of "advanced specialty" certifications in subject areas such as preservation framing of paper, canvas, textiles, and objects, for starters. That ought to keep PPFA and interested framers learning new things for another decade or so, at least.

The Fine Art Trade Guild has added advanced certifications to their Guild Commended Framer (GCF) program, too. I have not taken their advanced exams yet, but I have heard they are useful additions to the program. The Brits have a slightly different perspective than Americans about framing, you know.

Funny thing about learning...When we start down that road, we soon realize there's no end to it. There's always something more to learn, some new-to-me trick that makes a framing task faster, easier, cheaper, or better. And that same old question keeps popping up:
"What else don't I know yet?"

 

[Framer Jim]

Can the Office refuse to register a mark?

Yes. The Office will refuse to register matter if it does not function as a trademark. Not all words, names, symbols or devices function as trademarks. For example, matter which is merely the generic name of the goods on which it is used cannot be registered.

Additionally, Section 2 of the Trademark Act (15 U.S.C. §1052) contains several of the most common (though not the only) grounds for refusing registration. The grounds for refusal under Section 2 may be summarized as:

1. the proposed mark consists of or comprises immoral, deceptive, or scandalous matter;
2. the proposed mark may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons (living or dead), institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt or disrepute;
3. the proposed mark consists of or comprises the flag or coat of arms, or other insignia of the United States, or of any State or municipality, or of any foreign nation;
4. the proposed mark consists of or comprises a name, portrait or signature identifying a particular living individual, except by that individual's written consent; or the name, signature, or portrait of a deceased President of the United States during the life of his widow, if any, except by the written consent of the widow;
5. the proposed mark so resembles a mark already registered in the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) that use of the mark on applicant's goods or services are likely to cause confusion, mistake, or deception;
6. the proposed mark is merely descriptive or deceptively misdescriptive of applicant's goods or services;
7. the proposed mark is primarily geographically descriptive or deceptively geographically misdescriptive of applicant's goods or services;
8. the proposed mark is primarily merely a surname; and
9. matter that, as a whole, is functional.


IMHO it looks like 6 and 7 may not make trademarkable, but I'm not a patent attorney

 

[BUDDY]

Thanks Framer Jim

Jim thanks for posting those guidlines that show what PPFA and anyone else had to prove befor ethey were awared a REGISTERED TM. But most important IMO is your own comment ,"For example, matter which is merely the generic name of the goods on which it is used cannot be registered. "

Correct me if I am makeing a bad assumption but could that satement mean that if the TITLE PPFA wanted to register was seen as a vague term that might fit what anyone might call themselves as a framer , it probaly wouldn't have been allowed to be registered?

So ifit was allowed and PPFA used all the LEGAL CONSUL at their disposal to do so would it be fairly safe to say that any ambiguity in their registration was considered and avoided?

So maybe the self given names and titles individual shop owners like to know by isn't the main concern but imitation of the Governmentally Allowed TM probably is able to defended in the courts?

As I think this ."the proposed mark so resembles a mark already registered in the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) that use of the mark on applicant's goods or services are likely to cause confusion, mistake, or deception; " clearly says as well.
BUDDY

 

[Bogframe]

There are lots of framers who know as much about framing as I do. I have a piece of paper and three letters after my name that say that there is an organization that recognizes that I have the skills and knowledge neccesary to do what I do well. Does that make me better than my uncertified colleagues? No, not any more than a BA in literature makes someone better than someone who is merely "well-read".

 

[Jim Miller]

I also view the credentials as being valuable to our overall industry; beyond the self...
...take a step backward so you can see the big picture...
...Industry wide certfication is just one piece in the big puzzle of our industry's public image...please consider for a moment about contributing a little to the industry that you love. The more certified framers there are, the more we all benefit.

Barb, that is a perspective we framers seldom talk about. Perhaps framers tend to think about advancing themselves, and not about advancing the industry, because framing was a cottage industry for decades, and to this day most of us function autonomously or alone. Some (most?) framers have a hard time understanding how taking a test could benefit them, let alone benefit the industry.

As Seth the CPF-R pointed out, some excellent framers exist without earning credentials, just as some people enjoy extraordinary success in other technical industries without the benefit of higher education. But on balance, business people with higher education -- especially specialized education -- fare much better than those without. Why would framers be any different?

Barb, you make an important point about the value of advancing the industry, as framers learn and adopt higher standards in all aspects of operating a framing business. Looking back on the past couple of decades, there's no question that the industry has improved significantly in terms of quality, sophistication, and professionalism -- in the back room, the front room, and the office in between.

PPFA has certainly contributed to that by its educational opportunities, certifications, and benefits to members. The industry publishers have contributed as well, by organizing trade shows that bring us together, by 'raising the bar' of framing education, promoting it, and making it more widely available through multiple venues, as well as their worthy publications. And maybe most of all, framers who look beyond the walls of their shops and, as you said, "see the big picture" have driven the most positive changes.

Stepping back and looking from your "big picture" perspective, I wonder why some framers still prefer to isolate themselves, to be self-taught, and to reject the organized framing education, standards, and credentials that could help them become better framers, and thereby fuel advancement of the industry.

 

[Jay H]

The MCPF ... is the most thorough test of framing knowledge anyone has developed so far, I believe. You could call it a Master's Degree in framing.

Would that be a title or credential? After all, it's not really a degree of any sort.

Carry on.

 

[Jim Miller]

Would that be a title or credential?

The answer is carefully hidden in the first post of the thread.

 

[Mecianne]

I would like to publicly apologize to myself for (almost) reading this entire thread.











P.S. I think the quote button could use a little WD-40.

 

[PaulSF]

I've only been framing for a year, but I do require my employees to call me Your Lordship or Esquire, and to curtesy (even the men have to curtesy) upon entering the room where I am.

 

[brian..k]

Jim,
Arogant I may be but the only person in this thread that I see that is self righteous is you. You chose to take a comment about how I viewed myself as a framer as a statement that I think that the CPF exam is unwarented or useless. You chose to leave out the rest of my post that clearly stated that I believe continuing education is important and then you disparaged my character in an attempt to further your point regarding those of us that find the testing less significant than you do. You don't know me from Adam other than the few posts that I have made on this site. You don't know that I have tought classes on the history of framing and the proper care of art. You don't know that my greatest pride in my day to day job is expanding the knowledge of my employees. You assume that because I don't WANT to take a test that I'm fooling myself into believing that I know everything. Guess what? I don't. When I come accross something I am unaware of, I learn about it. If I find out that I am wrong about something I determine how I came to my way of thinking and learn from that experience.

I agree that continued pursuit of knowledge in our industry is important and that certification programs are useful tools for educating our employees and ourselves. BUT....to many feel that that is all they need to know or that as some have pointed out once they have the CPF title they don't conform their day to day practices with what they know to be right. I hold myself and my employees to the highest standards I possibly can every day on every piece of art and I would never imply that you don't.

 

[Paul N]

I would like to publicly apologize to myself for (almost) reading this entire thread.

P.S. I think the quote button could use a little WD-40.

That's my favorite post so far....

And PaulSF's not bad either!

 

[Jim Miller]

Jim,
...the only person in this thread that I see that is self righteous is you....

We agree that continuing education is important. Thank you for your thoughtful contribution to the discussion, Brian. If you have other insights, be sure and let us know.

 

[RoboFramer]

I have issues with our 'Fine Art Trade Guild' - for a kick off how would anyone assume, from me being a member of that, that I was a good framer?

If I became 'Guild Commended' how would that increase my turnover or make me better at what I do?

Anyway - those aren't the issues, the issues are - eg - in a recent mag of theirs - one of only two our trade has, they had an article on matboards and their standards for them. This included a list of manufacturers/suppliers and where their matboards fitted into the guild's categories.

They left Bainbridge out! Political - they have their reasons but they left the reader uninformed of the company many see as the leader in the field.

They advocate the use of ready-gummed tape, such as Hayaku for their top level of framing and so do our top framing column writers who also advocate self adhesive tape for 'conservation' framing. Silicone is OK too.

I 'meet or exceed' and I know, from reading their study guide, that I could TRAIN someone to pass the GCF test, and the advanced modules too - so - does that make be better than a GCF?

Well, their are GCFs & GCFs I suppose but the operative part of above is 'e.g.'

 

[ACFramer]

I think the point of this thread is to needlessly give all its readers either a migraine or TMJ.



geez...

 

[Doug Gemmell]

Nostalgia

I miss the Big Box bashing posts.....now those were fun!

 

[Jim Miller]

This may be a new world's record of some sort...

ACFramer's talking about migraines & TMJ, Steph is taken aback, Bob had to vent, Danny wants his full half hour, Barb is regrettably 2 cents poorer, Buddy's muddying the water, FrameMaker wants your $10, Dave is amazed, Framar is thinking, Robo has issues, Jay is agreeable but confused, PaulSF is Royalty, Brian's arrogant, I'm self righteous, and Mecianne is apologizing to herself.

Gawd, I love this business.

Maybe it's time to go for a beer.