Question tin foil in a frame?

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Julie Walsh

Julie Walsh

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
In Memorium
Rest In Peace

Gone but not forgotten
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This is a first for me: I opened a frame containing an original watercolour. Behind it was a piece of tin foil . Any one experienced this before? and if so, what would be the purpose?

I've painted watercolours for years and have never heard of this practice.
 
I suspected as much; however lovely masking tape was used to tape the watercolour down! so I'm not so sure it was a conservation attempt.
 
so nobody will put it in the microwave???
 
Interesting. For the record did you notice any foxing or other fun-with-chemistry going between the foil and the backing or art?
 
That was my hat. It must of fallen off while I was fitting the picture. No wonder the government has been able to read my thoughts lately.
 
j Paul said:
Carpenters are famous for stuffing all sorts of trash in the wall cavities so they don't have to carry out the trash. :shutup:
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Or stashing $10000000 dollars in small bills cooling off from the big bank heist. Urban legends, gotta love 'em. What's in YOUR walls?
 
FramerDave said:
I think this used to be pretty common in the UK, maybe Robo knows of it.
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Well if it was it was before my time!

Apart from a board that one company brought out as a combined mount and backing that was laminated in metal foil on one side.

They advertised it as 'conservation quaility' - was about as popular as a fart in a space suit - so was the company, gone now I think.

Never opened a job like that nor heard of any framer that does it.
 
I saw it not too long ago on a watercolor framed whoknowswhen. There was something skanky and acidic behind it and the watercolor was in perfect shape.

I'd say it worked in that case.

edie the wellmaybe goddess
 
Well, maybe I was wrong John. It's been known to happen. I'm wondering now where I heard about that.

Now before anyone goes running off about using cruddy boards in framing and using foil to make up for their acidic nature, consider something. Framing materials are not chosen just because they do no harm to the artwork actively, but also because they are strong and stable long-term.
 
are you saying that aluminum foil is NOT strong and stable long-term?

According to the recycle ads "2hrs in the oven, eternity in the land fill"....

or were you referring to the wearers of said hats?

And for the record, yes, I have run into this many times. Especially on Early California or Southwest watercolors done by Swenerton and Ame Moorehart. And Ame told me he did it because it was cheaper and easier than buying 180lb rag paper (we call it 4-ply now).
 
...and here we go.

Baer, obviously the aluminium foil is strong and stable. After having been on the Grumble for a few years, I was simply anticipating the inevitable question of why we couldn't just use some cheap cardboard with the foil instead of more expensive materials.

Yes, the foil would provide some but not absolute protection from the poor-quality materials. But acidic vs. not is only half the issue. The material used for a backing needs to remain strong and rigid to provide proper support and protection to the artwork. If it turns brittle and weakens, it fails and no aluminium foil is going to make up for that.

And now we sit by and wait for the "but, but I opened up a picture once and..." comments.

tinfoil-hat.jpg


And I believe this the hat wearer you referred to. Resurrected from an ancient thread about chemtrails and HAARP. That was entertaining.
 
Was the foil crumpled? Why do I ask?.... well... my husband's Grandmother was an artist (circa early to mid 1900's) called tinsel art. The idea was a water color directly on the glass with crumpled tin foil behind it (probably wrapped the fruit cake previously). The pieces are actually very cool and we have several of them in the house - the foil reflects the light a tiny bit and adds to the art. Many of them desperately need to be reframed but I will not touch them - I mean this is my husband's family history here.... I guess this is not what you mean, though???
 
Who knows if Ame ever expected his work to be reframed or even if he cared.

After he died, I had heard that his daughter went on a rampage and burned every thing of his she could get her hands on. Sad really.... how many high school teachers are world class registered artist, or visa versa?

Mostly I open up old pictures to find newspaper and baking soda in layers, like the one I showed you that day. Hmmmm, guess I should have put a picture of that in the article..... or maybe another article....

gotta go type now.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
That was my hat. It must of fallen off while I was fitting the picture. No wonder the government has been able to read my thoughts lately.
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Jeff, you are funny, funny man. :icon21:
 
Nothing to do with foil but thought I would share,

Today we took in an order that we were going to change the frame, we took it apart while the customer was there and found that the artwork, original watercolor, was stapled between the bottom mat and a piece of chip board underneath the art. Customer bought it at a gallery in Chicago 10-11 years ago and paid alot of money for it according to the customer.
At least it wasn't a permanent mount, all you need is a staple remover and it was as good as new, except for the 28 holes all around it.
 
DTWDSM said:
Nothing to do with foil but thought I would share,

Today we took in an order that we were going to change the frame, we took it apart while the customer was there and found that the artwork, original watercolor, was stapled between the bottom mat and a piece of chip board underneath the art. Customer bought it at a gallery in Chicago 10-11 years ago and paid alot of money for it according to the customer.
At least it wasn't a permanent mount, all you need is a staple remover and it was as good as new, except for the 28 holes all around it.
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I don't think that was a framing error, but that the artist wet-stretched the watercolor paper before painting, and left it on after it dried. Many of our watercolor friends use a gatorboard base for the same purpose. None have had them framed that way, but there is always a first time...
 
Would love to say you could be correct but the customer bought the art and then had it framed by the gallery. Plus the artwork was staples to both the bottom mat and the chipboard. I am guessing that there was no atg to attach the mat to the chipboard
 
LOL, Jeff. Better not tell the diamond people that. Things could get ugly.
Then again, it would make shopping for wedding rings a lot cheaper.
 
shayla said:
Then again, it would make shopping for wedding rings a lot cheaper.
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It would really mess up the classes system because everybody could afford the biggest size. "Hey baby, I didn't go for the 10 yard roll because you are worth every penny the 60 yard roll costs".
 
I've taken apart a few watercolors that were backed with aluminum foil and wood. I have to say that in all cases the foil stopped acid and moisture migrating from the wood. It had to be an accepted method at one time. Where are you, Hugh? Do you have an answer for us?
 
Well, if they can make prom dresses out of duct tape, and they do, they can surely accessorize with it. You're right about the class system, though. And then there are the people who just have to be different than everybody else. Personally, I'd be tempted to go for some Gorilla tape instead. I wonder if it comes in both matter and glossy? If only they would come up with a 'sparkly' option, their wedding ring sales would go through the roof.....
 
Aluminum foil would certainly keep pollutants out, but it would also oxidize, creating a staining reaction that can be observed when aluminum wires oxidize near white backing boards, on old frames. Aluminum foil that has been sandwiched between polymers (Marvelseal 360 and the like) provide the same highly effective barrier, without the oxidation potential.



Hugh
 
I love the tinsel art idea - thanks for mentioning that Jody.

I do remember that in the 80's and earlier, textile collecting ladies commonly covered cardboard tubes with aluminum foil as a barrier between tube and textile. So it must have been promoted in some conservation literature and/or by word of mouth as an alternative for collectors before the better grade materials became commonly available.

Rebecca
 
I've seen it just one time, many years ago. Even though masking tape was used to hold the picture in place, I am sure it was a conservation attempt.

Masking tape was pretty much the standard tape for holding pictures in place back in the fifties, and sixties probably a little earlier. So a knowledgeable framer of those days used the commonly accepted tape, masking tape.

Like today, there were just as many framing "experts" who developed and used their own unique methods of conservation, that set them apart and above (at least in their minds) their competition.

Metal is an acid barrier, and that is probably the idea behind using it.

John
 
So Hugh,

Can we assume that aluminum foil tape IS a barrier BUT it will likely oxidize and stain the art that it's in contact with? Does Lineco aluminized tape fall into this category - is it really foil or sputtered aluminum particles on some tape backing? What about the really thick aluminum foil tape used by HVAC technicians for sealing air conditioning ducts? I would think that a good quality aluminum foil would be a safer backing than corrugated cardboard or chip board as long as it was covering some stiff substrate.
 
A metal foil functions as a vapor barrier, as long as it is not puncured. Foil tapes can be used to line rabbets and exclude dust, from frames, but it should not be in contact with art on paper, since its adhesive might creep around the foil and one would have to ask whether the paper on the tape has been specified for contact with paper born art. Air conditioning tape will form a good seal, but it is very easy to puncture. A tape that combines the properties of heat sealing foil laminates (puncture-resistance, non-reactive surface coatings, and high vapor barrier potential) with a durable adhesive would be a useful addition to the market.


Hugh
 
Something like your roll and slice of Marvelseal (or alternative) in the BPG article! You should be at the Olympics mixing pleasure with outsourcing manufacturing business : )

R
 
Since mixing metals can cause electrolysis, it seems to me that should a staple or nail make contact with these barrier metals, more problems could arise than actually get solved. Lineco Tape has a paper overlay that would prevent condensation from forming, at least to a degree, unlike plain metal duct tapes.

John
 
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