"Think Like A Customer" Poll - July 2004

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From a consumer's point of view, what do you think they consider MOST important?

  • Total voters
    100
Mike Labbe

Mike Labbe

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The July monthly poll and discussion was prompted by recent threads about factors consumers may take into consideration when selecting a frame shop, and why ~85% don't use our services.

There are three questions in this poll. If you select OTHER, feel free to explain with a post. While votes are anonymous, your name will appear on any posts. Discussion encouraged!

1) From a consumer's point of view, what do you think they consider MOST important?
2) From a consumer's point of view, what do you think they consider LEAST important?
3) Why do you suppose 85% of consumers DO NOT use the services of a custom picture framer?

Please click on VOTE to participate. You'll be able to select a few choices for each question. Polling ends July 31st at 11:59pm.

Mike

PS: Other recent polls:
Backing Paper Survey June 2004
Deposits Collected (%) and Turnaround Time (days) May 2004 Poll
Closed Corner Frames Survey April 2004
Antivirus, Spam, Spyware Security Poll
Marketing: What is effective? March 2004
Moulding, Mat, & Glazing Survey Feb 2004
2003 Framing Technology Survey: CMC, POS, WEB, EMAIL, INET@WORK
What OTHER items/services do you offer?

[ 07-01-2004, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Mike-L@GTP ]
 
Ok, on the third question I wanted to check "PERCIEVED Price too high" as opposed to the "Price too high" choice. I am convinced from many comments that many consumers believe we are too high priced, but are pleasantly surprised once they try. The problem is getting them to "try."
 
This is a tough one because I don't believe that there is one single item for each catagory. I think there is several. I wish we could quantify these rather than just pick one. But very intresting poll. I don't know how well I "think like a customer." If I knew what the customer wanted you all would be out of business! :D
 
Cliff: For the sake of this poll, lets say that "Price too high" means both. It won't let me go back and edit the wording now that folks have voted.

Jay: It's not limited to one choice. You can pick as many as you wish...

The software is somewhat limited.

Hopefully this topic will generate some interesting discussion.

Mike
 
For Question One: Most Important, I added to the other category. In addition to Location, "How the customer is treated" is key.

Already (With only 18 votes), I'm surprised by the equal split in LOCATION being in the top most important (to which I concur), but also being in the top least important. In truth, surveys show that location is typically the number one reason people patronize any business. Think about where you go for groceries. You often settle for your second choice, because it's on the way home!

John
 
In my store the people who have inquired about framing and/or had me do a framing job are not interested in conservation style framing. They don't appear the least bit interested in blocking UV rays or mat burns or any of it. In fact the one customer, that comes to mind, who was interested the most never came back after I quoted a price.

I know a lot of you sell a lot of this but I have to go with the flow. When I mention rag mats and UV blocking glass it is just a non-starter. So this is what the public is least interested in, at least that's the case for me.
 
Re question 3:

You're at a party or a PTA meeting or some other social situation where you mention what it is that you do for a living. Isn't the response always "I have a picture that I've been meaning to get framed"?

I think that the answer to #3 is a combination of inertia and fear of the unknown. People have no idea what they might be getting into if they walk into a frame shop.

That's why, once they bravely venture into our little domains, we hear them ask questions like:

"Do I have to leave the piece?"

"Shall I stop back in half an hour to pick this up?"

They have no understanding of what's involved in custom framing. It's easier and much less threatening to leave their unframed piece under the bed and go to Michaels or TJMaxx and buy something to hang over the couch.

It's also why they go to Michael's or HobbyLobby when they do decide to have something custom framed. The framing departments in those stores are very approachable. A customer can go into the store to buy scrap book supplies then sidle over to the framing design counter and watch what goes on there. They can't do that in an independant frame shop.

Or, more importantly, they don't think they can and would be uncomfortable if they tried.

So how do we make indpendant shops more open and welcoming?

I don't know.

Maybe it would help to reverse the traditional layout. Put production up front and the design counter in the back. That might get more feet through the door since everybody loves to watch someone else work.

Good question, Mike.

Kit
 
I am thinking about the 3rd question and why people don't use a custom framer.

I believe there are alot of people that do not undertand what it is we offer and can do.

They may think that right off the bat, "they'll be more expensive" and don't realize we can gear our work to suit just about any level - even though we all know we prefer the upper end projects for the sales and design aspects we get satisfaction from.

That - is my "other" answer.

Good poll!

Roz
 
I was talking to the woman who cuts my hair last night about framing. Her first words were "It's so expensive, I have a friend who pad $250 to frame a picture." I said that there is a wide prie range and depending on the size of the picture and the selection of frame the price could vary quite a lot. I went on to say that these things last for many years and if it is a keepsake item it will be passed on to younger family members in the future. I asked how much her and her husband spend when they go to Red Lobster for dinner. She said $50. I asked if she was hungry for breafast the next morning. She smiled. I pointed out that I pay her to cut my hair but I have to come back every three or four weeks. She smiled again.

I think our largest problem is PERCEIVED high prices.
 
Great Poll, Mike.

The real test of this data comes when we ask consumers the same questions.

As Bob Shirk points out correctly (in both his experience with his hairdresser-talk about an "expensive" service, and his assessment of perception)Perception is Reality.

If consumers are truly convinced that we are "expensive", would it be easier to "re-educate' them or to "re-educate" us.

I think we have neither the ability nor capacity to do either effectively.

But what would be your first step to bring perception closer to our objective?
 
About 1976, the ASID was wondering the same thing. Only it was why more Americans didn't use decorators.

About the same time I was helping a friend part time re-hab houses that the Los Angeles county comservator had taken custody of.

We noted that all but 2 that we had done in the previous year, (@ 30 houses), had no change of wall color since the 50s, (institution green), and had no marks on ANY walls from picture framing. This matched the PPFA's findings that less than 8% had even 'been in' a frame shop.

We, as "art aware" people tend to migrate toward other "art aware" people and therefore are used to seeing framed art on our friends walls.

But folks, the vast majority of people in America stop at taping rock posters to their walls as kids. Somehow, that habit never grows up. They just put up a larger TV.

My sister-in-law spends $250 every other year to "re-decorate". The old art and stuff gets donated, and the new was Thrift store and on sale. She regularly goes from ducks to chickens to cows........ My brother says: send 4x6 snapshot at christmas with card. It's only going to hang around till Valentines day.

I cry.

Great Poll
baer
 
Originally posted by Kit:
Re question 3:

I think that the answer to #3 is a combination of inertia and fear of the unknown. People have no idea what they might be getting into if they walk into a frame shop.
Click to expand...
My sentiments exactly! That's where "relationship marketing" comes into play. If the customer can be comfortable with us, then they will be more comfortable with what we do.

Hey, I'm intimidated by some frame shops, and this is what I do for a living! Think of how someone feels who's never been in a frame shop before. Maybe I have the luxery of "scale" (very small shop, etc) but I win my customers one at a time. Then they truly don't care about location.

Betty
 
Although I only registered last night, or perhaps I should say this morning, I've been visiting the grumble for probably a year or more. I picked 'other' for the third question in the poll because I believe the problem is due to a lack of effective marketing. Higher pricing shouldn't matter as much if the customer understands the value of the product. I know there are a lot of people who don't appreciate the value of custom framing. But I'm certain there are enough consumers out there who do. And any custom framer who opens up shop with a good business plan including a real marketing strategy, shouldn't have a problem keeping busy and making a good profit in the process.
 
Time to get beat up. I am a bit surprised at the number of voters who think price is the number one consideration of our customers. Price is important, but NOT number one. Our clients value our knowledge and selection - they realize it's not cheap but we make the experience and finished product worth every cent they pay.

For our own people to say price is the number 1 consideration show me that YOU believe it. That perception is (probably) keeping you from showing your best, most innovative and truly custom designs. I'll admit that if I didn't own a custom frame shop I probably wouldn't frame many things. But my ability or inability to BUY high-quality framing doesn't preclude me from SELLING high-quality framing.

TRUE STORY - When I was a DM for Garden Ridge I had a manager who outsold the entire company on #15 black. His numbers were sliding so on a visit I watched him closely. Oh, and he was perpetually behind in turning work out on time. Each and every customer who started out with "I don't want to spend alot..." was shown black metal, no mat, clear glass. I spent the next 3 days showing great designs, regardless of the "don't want to spend alot" comment. Stacked frames, big frames, fabric mats ruled the week. We had one of the best weeks of the year with the fewest number of pieces. Bottom line was, we showed great looks, the customer realized what custom meant, and our average ticket was much higher than normal. He sold black metal because it's what he could afford - and so put that same PERCEPTION on his customers.

I've spent the last few days in the hospital with my mother. Each and every person I've met follows up the "what do you do?" question with "wow, that's expensive - must be a good business to be in" - FROM DOCTORS!!!

The results from this question, for me at least, adds more fuel to the fire that PERCEPTION is our biggest problem. Not only do our customers believe we're expensive, we think they think there's a problem with our prices!

In our shop we've got high end, value price, and in-between price mouldings. We try to be everything to everybody. We still fight the impression we're pricey. But at least we're pricey and worth it. That's the challenge.

BTW Mike - great poll!
 
I'm with a few others on the third kwestion, Don has made a great first post, welcome along Don.

My research in the local market has indicated that a lot of consumers were not aware of the existance of Picture Framers, let alone be worried about having the opportunity to even create some "perceptions" about our pricing or have a fear of the unknown.

I am planning to run a focus group in the near future regarding a variation of this issue, some of the past groups have demonstrated the lack of retention for customised furniture services - it seems that many people just plain don't want to remember.
 
Question 3 When I first started having things framed several years ago, the "coupon" drew me in, the price drove me out. Yet when I was ready to pay the price I still went to the big "M" because it was less intimadating and I felt if I went into an indepedant I was obligated to buy, I knew I could walk out of "M" and nobody really cared.
So how do we make it a less intimadating experience for our customers
 
This may come as a shock to a lot of you, but there are legions of folks who a) have no interest in having anything framed and/or b) don't have the money to spend on such things. They buy their furniture at Value City, it falls apart in a few years, but that's OK, because they have moved to another rental and didn't plan to take it with them because it was all dirty anyway. They leave it at the old place (I know this for a fact, because we haul them away all the time...)
 
Originally posted by AWG:
Not only do our customers believe we're expensive, we think they think there's a problem with our prices!
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!!

The interior designer came in last week a little upset because one of her clients had "complained" about her high fee to the seamstress. She was hurt that someone would go around saying her services "were so expensive".

I asked if she had called and cancelled their next appointment. No.

In my opinion, the lady wasn't upset about the prices, rather, she seemed to be bragging in a round about way that she could afford them. (Who says "I just bought a new Mercedes: it was so affordable"?) So, the next time someone complains about price, instead of becoming defensive, show them your "stripped down" model. (Don't you have a stripped down model?) Educate their eye; point out the details that set your work apart. The next time they might go for the loaded model.
 
i am with bob, depending on where he went to get his hair done could make a big difference. it is like going into Hair Cuttery or going into A Fine Hair Salon. You can get it done in the first, but what will you really get? ask a stylist at a salon about the local Hair Cuttery, they will not be pleased. Same with framing except that name tends to be Mic;;;;; or Hobby LObby. When you go into the Fine Hair Salon you expect things, however it makes you feel akward. You dont want to be told that your hair is not kept and it needs expensive treatments. So we like the customer shy away from what we dont know. That is why when the customer comes in for the first time you need to have an intervention of sorts-explanation of rag boards and uv glass. if you have displays and explain correctly it will help. make them feel like they learned something. the first time they gget that piece framed correctly and it looks great they are happy and will come back. after that the selling gets easier and they will go for the more expensive options, because they are open to it.

a rambllllllllllleeeeeeeeee

d
 
Least important? Customers do not appreciate conservation framing...it means nothing to them. We put so much effort into doing it right and it's mostly lost on the average customer.

And average sometimes translates into mediocrity. WE have a food court in our mall and even though it is a food court, there is a large variety and some offer better quality and more interesteing food than others...wonderful Greek food, sushi, creative salads, etc. I always look around. It seems that more than half!! of the people are always eating McD's.

Most people just go for the ordinary. In our case, that means buying a ready made frame, or just putting something on the wall that costs $50, art and frame.

I think many just aren't even aware of the possibilities in which case, the BBs might be a good thing because it exposes many to the concept of custom framing who might otherwise never step into a framing shop or, heaven forbid, a Gallery.
 
On the third question I feel that many customers here "custom framing" and a cash register goes off in their head. They fear the word "custom" because they think its going to cost a fortune. I have so many customers that bring in their "odd-ball" size work, and when I tell them that it would have to be custom made for them, you can just see the look on their face. Most often reply is "gee..custom that sounds too expensive, cant I just mat it and stick it in your readymades?" I think if they just realize that put forth a couple extra dollars and get something thats going to last longer, and is better in presentation then those readymades. Framing is an investment, that pays off in the end is what I always say.
 
Least important? Customers do not appreciate conservation framing...it means nothing to them. We put so much effort into doing it right and it's mostly lost on the average customer.
Click to expand...
As much as possible, we take the time to educate, especially first timers, what we're doing. An open, visible work area and an explanation of what/why/how we're framing their stuff, etc make them understand. Once we've done that they realize this won't be inexpensive, but it will be worth what they pay and won't be lost on them. It's hard to explain full p/c framing for a $10 poster. The previous post about art that gets left behind, etc is valid - why should they spend BIG bucks on every thing they get framed? It may sound blasphemous, but full conservation framing isn't always appropriate. An appropriate level of conservation may help ease sticker shock, let them feel comfortable (not intimidated) and help change the perception of expensive custom framing. BTW, about 90% of what we do is full conservation framing. But we do sell clear glass, regular foam and drymounting.

I have so many customers that bring in their "odd-ball" size work, and when I tell them that it would have to be custom made for them, you can just see the look on their face. Most often reply is "gee..custom that sounds too expensive, cant I just mat it and stick it in your readymades?"
Click to expand...
So do you go ahead and show something custom or pull out the readymade? Just because it sounds expensive doesn't mean it will be. What is expensive to me may be couch-cushion change to someone else. The demographics of the average custom framing customer says it probably is.

Tony
 
Originally posted by dns ynko:
When you go into the Fine Hair Salon you expect things, however it makes you feel akward. You dont want to be told that your hair is not kept and it needs expensive treatments.
d
Click to expand...
Denis, are you speaking from personal experience?



Kit
 
Yeah, dennis, how can any reputable hair dresser call a 5 o'clock shadow on a cue ball, "unkempt"???

Framerguy
 
It's been a very long time ago but, I vaguely remember a PPFA survey that stated that PRICE was the Number THREE thing customers considered after quality and Craftmanship.

I haven't seen the recent survey Bob Carter has done for PPFA/PMAI. However this Poll sure seems to contradict that opinion doesn't it?
I say that because I am sure most respondents didn't formulate their answers based on yesterdays /very recent experiences.In fact I'll bet some are based on information learned over a long period of time.

In another annalogy; I'd loved to own a Rolls (for the quality and craftmanship) but you best belive the first question I and most peole will ask first is "What is it going to cost".

So that makes me wonder "where does those craftmanship over price" concepts come from?
Could there have been some vendors complieing the information? I seem to remember a vendor who suggested that your mark up was better based on higher costing moldings at a lower markup which brought in MORE DOLLARS even though your percenatage was lower( useing a preformulated chart).Could they have been trying to SELL their HIGHER priced ,slower moving inventory by getting you to sell higher dollar frames with less profit percenatge by telling you that customers didn't worry about COST ?
BUDDY
 
Hi Buddy-For clarification, I have been working with the pros at PMA on setting up surveys that will monitor consumer opinions to help us understand he consumers point of view better.

I haven't done any surveys at all; don't have either the capacity or ability to do it. Way beyond my pay grade or resources.

What I have done is to try and take all the prevailing surveys and research and try to weave a consistent picture of our industry from the consumer side.

It has been as difficult a challenge as trying to understand political ads (from both sides).

Every survey, intentional or not, has a bias. The purpose of doing them is to validate, in most cases. We are trying to set them up with a more purely research perspective.

But, let's start with what we do know from recent surveys on the price component.

When asked how much consumers spent on their last framing project more than half said it was under $100 (I don't have exact figures in front of me) but when framers were asked what THEY felt their average ticket was, the figure was significantlty higher. I'm going with the consumer, on this one

When asked where the consumer had their last framing project done, 2/3 said it was someone other than a gallery/frameshop. It doesn't take a quantuum leap of faith to figure that they stores that were utilizing a pricing advantage as part of the marketing strategy were coming up more frequently than were we.

When asked where the last framed art was purchased, we (framers/gallerys) were listed only 12% of the time. 88% went elsewhere. Not only were not getting the sale, we weren't even on the radar screen.

The truth is, we really don't know much about our industry and our customers. If asked, we will tell you in depth, how we all understand our consumers needs-that we have the pulse thing down.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

It points out how much we don't know and why association with PMA can be of great help. These are real pros and can get powerful information to us.

Now, if we use it or not.....
 
Bob your statement:
"Nothing could be further from the truth."
Is a loaded one to be sure.

My point was that I suspected that some suggested priceing was based on what was best for the Vendor ,while they tryed to show how we could make more DOLLARS while giving up Markup percentage.

It also was that I suspected that some older surveys were trying to enourage better craftmanship ( maybe even C/P) while telling us that higher cost ( which make no mistake are justififed) were no detreant to these type of sales.But this poll and others like it even yours seem to say this just isn't so.

I also suspect that a reason for some of your Data not jiveing could well be that some proud farmers are actually doing a lot more low ticket sales but brag on their BIG tickets as though they were the rule rather than the exception.You know it is much more impressive among your peers to sware tht all you take in is expensive high dollar work which the hoy paloy are just tracking you down to have it framed.When in reality they do take in more than most but they also take in a lot more small jobs then they want to be known for.
(It's sort of like the habitual gamblers .They always tell you about the big wins,but they forget to mention that they continually contribute a continual investment to the house much more than their BIG WINS amount to.But to hear them talk they win every day.Makes you wonder how the Casinos stay open.LOL)

I have a smi-well known Framer friend that every time we meet tells me about the Mamoth job he just did that brought in big bucks. Only problems are that I hear the same stories over again some times. He also forgets we use the same suppliers whose rep is only to glad to share his budget woes with me "IN THE STRICTEST PRIVACY" as I am sure mine are.

Point being Vendors and reps aren't the only ones in this industry that imbellish their stories to make their point of view look Impressive.

Why can't we ALL just tell the truth ? Then we might not need so many INVESTAGATIVE SURVEYS.But I really appreciate what you aredoing and it's discoveries.

BUDDY
 
Hey Buddy-I liken those inflated responses to 17 yr old buys predicting the "outcome" of their Sat night date on Friday and then talking to them on Monday morning.

Sure, some are going to "fudge", but bet your bottom dollar that the "success" rate is always lower.

Skillful analysts tend to figure those "probabilities" into the equation. And what you are really looking for is the comparatives.

Never forget that most every survey has a bias-unfortunately with the raw data, you often see
what the payer wants you to see.

But, if we only believe the "pre-conditioned" response, we are simply rationalizing the outcome.

And, to think we have around 4 months of this type of useless surveys heading our way.
 
Bob Says:

When asked how much consumers spent on their last framing project more than half said it was under $100 (I don't have exact figures in front of me) but when framers were asked what THEY felt their average ticket was, the figure was significantlty higher.
Click to expand...
This may NOT be inconsistant. I'll use myself as a sample of one. My Mean frame job runs about $145. My Median frame job runs about $82. Therefore, more than half of my consumers paid less than $100 and I "averaged" more than $100 per frame job. BOTH numbers have significant value in my decision process going forward!
 
Good point, Cliff.

But suppose that your offerings excluded the "more than half of the consumers" that walked into your shop?

My only point is to have as many options available to satisfy as wide a clientele as practical.

What do you do that attracts the $82 client? I'll bet that very few do many jobs at all under $82.

The fact that you recognize the differences speaks well to your knowledge of your business.

Please share how you do this as I'm sure many could learn the lesson that you did
 
Ok Bob ;) ,I think you and I started to get to some of this in email, but, what I have done is purchase some moulding in "modest" bulk. That is, I bought enough to get a 40% off length list. I then offer that at enough of a "discount" that I can satisfy some of the "lower priced shoppers."

For clarification, I price everything at 3x chop plus a labor charge, then "discount" a black, gold, and silver 1/2" wood moulding 20% to hit some necessary price points. (There are other mouldings I buy at the same rate I do not discount.)

I also have created a display for a single poster (actually an 8 x 10 of The Girl with a Pearl Earring") that I have framed six ways from a $25.00 plaque to a $327 suede mat with fillet and alternatives in between. This let's customers know they can purchase "at a reasonable price," but encourages spending more, because they can see what "more money" might buy.

I believe I still need to add some "ready mades" (I have only photo frames now.) to cut down on some of my "walk outs."

But you asked, "What do you do that attracts ...?" I wish I had a better feel/understanding to answer that question! My concern/problem is that I still believe MANY people go elsewhere (or NO where) because of percieved cost rather than real cost.

I think I have a handle on getting sufficient margin out of the "smaller" jobs. I also either have implemented or plan on implementing things to "make the sale" and, better yet, "make the sale quicker" once they are in the shop. (Obviously quicker is better because less sales time ALSO yields higher margin because there less labor expense.)

BUT, I am still wrestling with getting them in the door!
 
Originally posted by Cliff Wilson:
...I am still wrestling with getting them in the door!
Click to expand...
Sounds familiar. That is exactly the problem I have, too.

By all indications, ours isn't a price problem, or a management problem, or a customer service problem. It appears to be a marketing & advertising challenge, which consists of two major issues: 1) knowing what to do; and 2) funding it.

These days, if profit percentages and quote-vs-order ratios are in line, raising prices might drive away customers we should be retaining.
 
Since this has been bumped to the top again,and it is widely known that the written langauge isn't my strong suit,could Cliff or someone else explain the differance between the two definitions I looked up online?

As defined by what I could find online:
Mean-Something having a position, quality, or condition midway between extremes; a medium.

Median-Statistics. Relating to or constituting the middle value in a distribution.

So my question is what (in addition to writeing skills) else don't I understand or what else am i mixing up? Aren't thses two figures the same?
BUDDY
 
Mean and Median have mathematic definitions.

The "Mean" is the average of a set of numbers.
The "Median is the "Middle Value" of a set of numbers.

So, given the follow set:
{2,2,2,2,3,4,6,6,9}
The Mean is (2+2+2+2+3+4+6+6+9)/9 = 4
The Median is 3 because there are four numbers less than 3 and 4 numbers more than 3.

In the case of "Average frame job" being discussed you have to consider what your value distribution is. In other words, if you almost all your frame jobs are around $100, but you have one or two around $1000. Your "average" or Mean may appear artificially high. If your value distribution is uniform, your mean and your average could well be equal.

I contend that Median value is a equally interesting value in comparing businesses. Unfortunately, if the question was asked no one could rely on the data, because most people think the Median is the Mean.

That wasn't supposed to be an insult Buddy! I wasn't trying to be mean. ;)

Edit: Oops needed to fix that math! Hope nobody saw that!
faintthud.gif
 
Cliff Thanks for the explanation but i am definately one of those "Most people" since I obviously thought that mean and median meant the same (even after looking it up online).I wonder how many others where smarter than I?

When you stated;
>>>>That wasn't supposed to be an insult Buddy! I wasn't trying to be mean. <<<<<<

I wouldn't have known if you were insulting me .I'm still trying to digest the help you gave me. And you wouldn't be defined as "MEAN" since you certainly are anything but average.LOL But so am I .I just don't know a clever pun for "BELOW AVERAGE"which may prove my point in more ways than one.LOL
BUDDY
 
Poll Results: "Think Like A Customer" Poll - July 2004

From a consumer's point of view, what do you think they consider MOST important?
53% Price
38% Quality/Craftsmanship
33% Trust
31% Location/Parking/Hrs
19% Selection
09% Turnaround Time
06% OTHER (see comments)
02% Framer Credentials

From a consumer's point of view, what do you think they consider LEAST important?
61% Framer Credentials
25% Turnaround Time
25% Location/Parking/Hrs
09% Selection
05% Quality/Craftsmanship
05% Price
04% Trust
04% OTHER (see comments)

Why do you suppose 85% of consumers DO NOT use the services of a custom picture framer?
54% Price too high
43% Experience can be intimidating
28% OTHER (see comments)
08% Lack of Trust
04% Poor Location/Parking/Hrs
02% Poor Turnaround Time
01% Poor Quality/Craftsmanship

Please note that these results represent only a small sampling of the industry, and should be taken lightly. This poll is for entertainment purposes, not business planning. There were 102 participants. Thanks to all who participated!

Discussion welcomed.

Mike
 
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