There's a surprise in every package!

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hangupsgallery

hangupsgallery

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Posts
948
Loc
Lincoln, Nebraska
Here's a project that came in, customer just wanted to add a small emblem to the collage. Opened it up and here's what I found.

Thank goodness for brown packing tape.:(
 

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Leaves me speechless. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe it.
 
OMG! :help:
 
I've seen stuff like that before. Looks like a good quality cardboard box was used for the backing too!

Years ago I had to replace glass in a frame (that was made in Canada), for a customer. The framers label on the back touted that the business was a "Quality" framing business. The cardboard box used for the backing, not only had the product information printed on the inside of the backing, but also black marker writing relating to delivery information!

I guess there are all levels of "quality" and this one wasn't one of the higher levels!

The sad thing is that customers rarely see what's going on inside and they think they have much higher quality framing than they actually have.
 
I'd flog them silly just for taping the flag. Framed or unframed.

Absolutely unbelievable. I bet the customer was really proud of it beforehand, too.

That has to go into a Hall of Shame.
 
I have a frame in here for repair that looks very familiar to this disaster only they used clear packing tape instead of brown. All the medals are siliconed in and the center tile (10 lbs of solid brass) was attached the same way. Guess what came loose and scratched the acrylic and left silicone trails all over the double mat. Now bent rod mount supported, new mats and CC acrylic. Takes much longer to match somebody elses work than to do it originally. The job has been sitting here for 90 days waiting for pick up. Of course it was a rush job for a memorial service. It was for one of the Navy Seal team 6 members who was killed in the helicopter shot down. Original request was for Optium but was too cost prohibitive for the budget. Still not picked up--still to expensive?? I underscharged for the job as it was. Makes one wonder about respect for the flag and proper care.:nuts:
 
OMFG

The worst thing about this is that from the front it looks like a nice design that was well executed. Instead someone should be executed for disgracing the flag in that way.
 
Really!?!? Did you GASP and cry out in pain when you opened it? Was the customer standing there to hear you cry? I make them watch, I want them to feel my pain. :cry:
 
Yeah... if you didn't open it in front of them, you REALLY need to show it to them!!!

If it was framed by someone in this country, I'd call them and give them he**!!:fire::fire::fire:

I've done it before!

When I clicked on the image, I only managed a "Holy **it!!!" and then felt a bit sick to my stomach.:vomit:
 
I just reframed a very nice old watercolor that was framed about 40 years ago.
I unframed it while the customer was there and I mentioned as I was about to tear off the paperbacking that often people back then would just use any old cardboard box that they had laying around as backing and also that they would sometimes use lots of masking tape or packing tape.
I ripped off the paper and there was the old corrugated box as backing and lots of masking tape holding the art to the mat.
The customer thought I was a psychic or something but I explained that after 42 years of framing I've seen just about everything. :icon11:
 
FrameMakers said:
The worst thing about this is that from the front it looks like a nice design that was well executed. Instead someone should be executed for disgracing the flag in that way.
Click to expand...

This.

Every good framer needs copies of these two pictures in 8x10 glossies. I've never seen a better illustration of why preservation framing matters and why two jobs that look the same are not the same and usually have two very different prices.

And I'm sure the guy who did that thinks he's a darned good framer.
 
FramerDave said:
This.

Every good framer needs copies of these two pictures in 8x10 glossies. I've never seen a better illustration of why preservation framing matters and why two jobs that look the same are not the same and usually have two very different prices.

And I'm sure the guy who did that thinks he's a darned good framer.
Click to expand...

I agree! I have dragged those pictures off and I have them on my desktop on my computer to be used as examples of "what you see is sometimes not what you get".
 
Very sad to see a burial flag handled that way. It's actually a nice presentation from the display side, well laid out and obviously a lot of work on the fillets, etc... Why not the same attention (and respect) to the mounting?
Kind of "don't look behind the curtain" thing.

I would be super pissed if I was the customer bringing in my grandfather's military history and saw that.
 
That is way to small for a burial flag. It is more then likely a flag that flew over some instillation in Iraq or a retirement flag.
 
I'm also curious whether it was framed overseas. Had a
'shadowbox' of decorative knives brought in by an Army guy
who was home on leave. It had been framed in Iraq, with
the frame held together by staples and this sort of plastic
packing tape. The thing holding the art was also held into
the frame by that tape, and on the way back home, the
whole thing was flattened. Go figure why all that tape
didn't support it. :nuts:
 
More then likely this was framed overseas. I have taken several apart that look just like this. It does look like the 3x5 "deployment" flag that service member get while overseas.

I'm wondering about the rank and cert though. The cert says Captain and the rank is Colonel? Thats a quick promotion considering they don't give out battlefield commissions anymore.
 
Wow. The question is what made them do that? Did they not have the tools to do anything correctly and didn't think of anything better? Did they just have no knowledge? I think I need to make a photobook of work like this to demonstrate quality.
 
It's all fun and games to beat our collective chests and utter our slurs of utter
outrage - - but Steve has also not come back to tell us if there was a framer's
sticker on this project.

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Look closely and you will see that the mat was fully drawn out . . so definitely
no CMC and possibly a "knife & straight-edge" job.

The only thing that throws me from thinking this was done by a military hack
is the excessive use of fillet . . . although, that could also be the hallmark of one.

We have redone stuff that was done on a base by a personal that was soaking
the natives (other enlisted), but they had no idea until they got the
jobs home, and they started falling apart.

Lets face it . . . there are a lot of people who got their start reading a couple
of Vivian's books, bought some "equipment" from Rockler and they were
"Framers" with the credentials to go soak their friends and family.

But as some have noted here.... take the pictures and use them as a "teachable"
moment with your customers.

Just be aware, that once that idea is planted, don't be surprised if some of your
work comes back with the backing torn off... from curious customers.

Careful what you ask for, more careful what you teach.
 
WoW

i know thats the wrong way to do it

but having never done anything like that before, just out of curiosity how would you hold the flag in, like i say never done it before and wouldnt even know where to start with the flag
 
An acid free foam core triangle encasement can be built for the flag. The flag can sit inside of it and then that triangle is attached so there is nothing invasive to the flag.
 
or as i have learned from jim, mylar straps if they want to see the whole thing, as in all but one side... and not just the front of the flag.

But they sure did make it look good for such a carppy job.
 
I will cut a triangle of AFFC about 1" smaller all around then the flag and attach the flat using stainless steel T-Pins radiating out in a star-burst. I can then attach the AFFC aggressively to the backing.
 
Puppiesonacid said:
or as i have learned from jim, mylar straps if they want to see the whole thing, as in all but one side... and not just the front of the flag.
Click to expand...

You didn't say which jim, but I have not attached flags by using clear film straps. I generally sew them to an undersized substrate of alpha cellulose board, similar to the way Dave uses his pins. I have also used a shallow sinkmount that tightly fits the flag's shape, and slipped a board into the flag's open fold from behind the mounting board.

Doc Derr developed a clear film mounting technique for flags, which seems to be a sort of 'spider' mount. I have not tried it, but the clear film would have to wrinkle, and that might make some nasty reflections.
 
I guess most of us have seen things like this come into our shops. Right now we have a Celtics jersey that came in with a failed mount...it was stapled to a fabric-covered foam board. Several of the staples fell out, and the fabric came loose because it was attached by spray adhesive that failed.
FramerDave said:
And I'm sure the guy who did that thinks he's a darned good framer.
Click to expand...
There really are framers who would do this sort of thing and think it's good framing. Some of them are proud to claim many years of framing experience and think they know all they need to know. Thirty years in the back room might amount to 3 years' experience 10 times over.

Tragically, they have no idea how much they don't know.
 
I got one like this too this year. The guy brought it back with him from Afghanistan. I chalked it up to using materials they had and just not knowing any better. I ripped off all the tape and did what I could to make it better. Blows your mind none the less.
 
Jim Miller said:
Thirty years in the back room might amount to 3 years' experience 10 times over.

Tragically, they have no idea how much they don't know.
Click to expand...

I love both these statements :) Although you may be being too kind. In three years hopefully the framer would learn a little more than to do that :) Maybe more like 2 years 15 times over, of 60 iterations of 6 months knowledge :)

I know I'm 10 years and still learning every day.
 
These are done by... drum roll.....


The US Military!

These have come into our shop, the same way, from bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. They normally do not do well in duffel bag travel containers either.
 
Jim Miller said:
You didn't say which jim, but I have not attached flags by using clear film straps. I generally sew them to an undersized substrate of alpha cellulose board, similar to the way Dave uses his pins. I have also used a shallow sinkmount that tightly fits the flag's shape, and slipped a board into the flag's open fold from behind the mounting board.

Doc Derr developed a clear film mounting technique for flags, which seems to be a sort of 'spider' mount. I have not tried it, but the clear film would have to wrinkle, and that might make some nasty reflections.
Click to expand...

You, I guess gave me the idea for it... Jim Miller. The guy didn't want any holes in it what so ever. the straps don't wrinkle if you wrap it around the flag correctly. they do reflect a bit, but so be it. The customer was happy.

I should add, through your book though i know there are no examples of flags, its the only way i thought of that gave the customer the look he wanted without holes.
 
Puppiesonacid said:
The guy didn't want any holes in it what so ever. the straps don't wrinkle if you wrap it around the flag correctly...its the only way i thought of that gave the customer the look he wanted without holes.
Click to expand...

No holes? That seems a bit odd. Did he think you were going to bolt it down? I would have pointed out that the flag is riddled with similar needle holes, as all of the stars and stripes are sewn together. In that perspective, maybe he would have agreed to sewing it.

Anyway, it seems that you found a workable way to satisfy the customer's specifications. If the customer is happy and the flag is unharmed, then all is well.
 
I know it's a good idea to keep from being invasive with
framing, but I also wonder about how even well-presented
objects will fair over time. Even with conservation glass,
it seems like after a number of years any cloth item would
have a fade spot on what was visible. Likewise, with shadowbox
objects that have other things placed in front of them, or with
sports jerseys. I know we're not magicians, but it's true that
no matter how careful we are, damage can still occur.

Not a comment about how this flag should be done,
but just what's been on my mind.
 
On my first day of framing, I don't think I would have tried anything like that. I do remember struggling the first time I was presented with a large flag for a shadowbox. I don't think I would do it now, but I sewed a bit of velcro the to back of the flag to hold it in place, and allowed the bottom to be supported by the bottom of the box.

I'm in the home where it hangs several times a year, and get a chance to inspect it. The velcro did not have adhesive, so I don't think it has done any harm, but I wouldn't do it that way now. I usually build a box for it or sink mount.

As for respect for the flag, it really doesn't matter what kind of flag it is, they all deserve equal treatment.
 
wvframer said:
On my first day of framing, I don't think I would have tried anything like that. I do remember struggling the first time I was presented with a large flag for a shadowbox. I don't think I would do it now, but I sewed a bit of velcro the to back of the flag to hold it in place, and allowed the bottom to be supported by the bottom of the box.

I'm in the home where it hangs several times a year, and get a chance to inspect it. The velcro did not have adhesive, so I don't think it has done any harm, but I wouldn't do it that way now. I usually build a box for it or sink mount.
Click to expand...

That's actually not too bad. If it's sewn on with good cotton thread with stitches placed in existing seams or holes as much as possible, then the changes to the flag would be minimal and it could be undone very easily by undoing the stitches. With the flag resting on the bottom of the frame there would be very little, if any, weight on it causing strain. With the inside of the frame lined with a good quality matboard, the flag isn't touching anything it shouldn't be.

wvframer said:
As for respect for the flag, it really doesn't matter what kind of flag it is, they all deserve equal treatment.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%
 
I do get some flags that were purchased for decorative design elements and nearly always make alterations to those. I always ask if they would like me to remove the Made in China label from them and always get a yes.
 
DenKym said:
These are done by... drum roll.....


The US Military!

These have come into our shop, the same way, from bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. They normally do not do well in duffel bag travel containers either.
Click to expand...

I`m betting lowest bidder contract? Still, sticky tape...on a FLAG....I`d kick an A$$ or two! L.
 
ArmyFramer said:
I'm wondering about the rank and cert though. The cert says Captain and the rank is Colonel? Thats a quick promotion considering they don't give out battlefield commissions anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes,THANK YOU..."Miss Uber Anal" here was wondering the same thing, seriously...... L
 
I'll have this photo for when they come in and say "In [fill in name of country] I could have that framed for $2.50 (or other ridiculously low amount of money)."
 
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