The similarities are amazeing despite how much we ALL try to denie it.


SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Founding Member
Nov 23, 1997
Mandeville, LA USA
Recently I joined in a thread on HH about the validity of Glazing Oil Paintings. My first post was a suggestion for all on HH to come over to TFG and use the search feature and find the 15 or so threads that date back to 2000.You may recall my saying the same thing here a while back.LOL

Then I was thanked for pointing out the opinions of Hugh and Rebecca ,despite the fact that PPFA's recert program teaches the same thing.

Then I got curious because someone mentioned a post I didn't remember seing and I used HH's Archives only to discover the following ,which I posted on HH and thought some of you might find amuseing and informative.

This is my last HH post;
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:24:19 EST
Subject: Re: Glazing issues need expert input

I appreciate the fact that some are impressed with my post on the topic of
Glazing Oils. However I did some back tracking and I used the Archives of the
HH and I was somewhat shocked. The very same results that I mentioned finding
on TFG is also available on the HH archives ( especially if you expand the
number of post viewed to the max) .But even more impressive is when this is
done some of the same names that are expounding on their particular views where
also doing so back in the year 2000 .Some even mentioned seeing the glazing
being done in Museems in of all places Washington ,D.C. If I'm not mistaken
that is where the NGA is located and where Hugh Phibbs earns his pay.( along
with Instructing for PPFA and other framing tradeshows and periodicals)

So ,I guess the question is ,since none of this is NEW GROUND and much of it
has been defended and instructed by noted experts ,WHY do many refuse to
accept it's correctness?

Could it be just like many "Urban Legands" they take on a life of their own
and refuse to die no matter how much they are refutted by knowledgable people
in the industry? ( maybe even the very Association we all belong to.[The
PPFA's recertification Program]

Sorry for not bringing this up earlier ,but you can do so by going to the HH
archives and inserting "Glass on Oils" and expanding the nuber of post to
50.But after you do this still go to TFG and do the same and see how much even
Non-Member framers agree with HH theories.In fact some of the Framers have the
same names.LOL
Charles BUDDY Drago

Maybe I should just make CC and post every thing on both Forums. But then MANY would get annoyed reading things I say twice( once here and again on HH) but then why don't we accept what we are told regaurdless of on which forum when it is well documented?
Buddy, you should post your poem here too.

Bren, the HH is a bb for PPFA Members.
Originally posted by bren:
Please define "HH" for me.

"HitchHikers" is the nickname given to PPFA's Online Exchange, for members only. It is a good forum moderated only by its creator, Merrill grayson. Unlike The G, it is a broadcast email list.
Jo I don't know what "POEM" you are refering to.As all know I have enough trouble with the English language with out worrying about Ryhming schemes and Onomonapia .LOL

But as for posting the same message in both forums "I HAVE " as all of you have. In fact that was the message .There may be TWO DISTINCT forums but they share a lot more than just some very familiar names.They both stated refutting the "Oils need to Breath " thing around 5 years ago and some of the people on both forums refuse to accept the fact that the old theroy is not correct.If you check here you can verify half of what I am saying and if you are a PPFA member and join the online discussion you can see that that forum is almost Identical. It should be many of the participants are the same.Which is why I can't understand the resitance to accept the change of this old MYTH.Speaking of which do a search on "Ask the Experts" and you should get a litany of similar axioms.And if you can view both TFG search and HH Archives you may wonder like I do why there is so much resitance accepting the other guys.As Pogo said "We have meet the enemy and it is US"

I occasionally attend a life drawing workshop at one of our local colleges. The college professors teach that oils and acrylics need to breath. I had an extended discussion with them one night and essentially was told it was 4 professors against one lowly framer, therefore, I was wrong. They continue to teach that paintings on canvas need to breath.

That's why the "legend" refuses to go away I think. Not to mention that Decor published it's framing tips with exactly the same erroneous message!
Cliff, were these the same brainiacs that believe that they should only frame those painting is the thinnest cheapest narrow black frames... or the ones that paint all the way around the outside and call it <strike>blameless</strike> frameless?
Well, Cliff... that only proves the old adage:

"Those who can't do, teach."

The rest of that is : "Those who can't teach become principals." But that could be for another day.

I find that most of the artists who come in have been taught ways of doing stuff that has been shown to be wrong.
Their ideas of matting, mounting and framing are some of the worst ever brought in. Say... using duct tape all the way around their art to the back of the plain paper mat!!

Every one knows you only use one strip of duct tape across the top!

"... paint all the way around the outside and call it blameless frameless?"

Actually Baer, one of the "very knowledgeable" professors uses Black Electrical tape around his canvases to give them a "finished" look!
In part, theyt are right. The canvases do need to "Breath"... but then, the amount of air that can go though the backing is more than enough. Glazing on a painting is fine, as long as (like all art) It does not touch the surface!!!!

But that being said... find a good frame for a canvas that will have the depth for the glass, spacer, and the canvas on it's stretcher bars!
I frame all my oils behind a double layer of chicken wire for protection. I figure it makes about as much sense as glazing and looks better.
I tried that with the chicken wire, but they STILL got dirty..

While I may LIKE glazing on almost everything, those cute little whippersnapper customers don't. I want everything to stay clean and dust-free, minimum of enviro-exposure. It helps minimize the chances of getting taco sauce on my pictures. And if you think I'm joking, you've never met my family.

Breathing is a metabolic function, which requires
respiratory organs. Paintings neither metabolize
nor do they have respiratory organs. Oils oxidize
as they "dry" but slowing this process, as glazing
would, should reduce their cracking. Acrylics
dry as soon as they loose their water and surfactants come to the surface of the paint film
for some weeks thereafter, but after that glazing
is a good idea, since their surfaces a pocked by
holes left by the departing water and these holes
can gather grime. Displaying paintings on canvas
without glazing may look best, but it is not
required, since these inanimate objects do not
need to breathe. Indeed, anything breathing in
proximity to a painting, is likely to be a mold
or mildew or an insect... not welcome guests.

It should be noted and was by someone very knowledgable that I may have erroniously given the impression that some very noted experts in the industry were actually conservators and then maybe even specializeing in Works done on Canvas as well both or either here on TFg and HH as well.

I mispoke if I did. However the names I mentioned are no less knowledgeble or expert if they aren't Canvas Conservators for either the AIC or CCI. I think the information quoted by Merrill Grayson on HH( both the parody on Shakespear"The Poem" ,LOL, and the Certification Boards findings,which I will gladly FWD to anyone who wishes to read and hasent alreay) Speak volumes about wether or not this practice is safe and advisable. The choice is as always up to you. But there is definetly no harm done when properly administered and the "MYTH" is that works need to breath for years and years.IMHO But then we here on TFG have never judged what someone had to say by any intials behind their name anyway,just on it's content,even if it has been repated for as much as five years.LOL
Charles BUDDY Drago