The S word....

Paul N

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Posts
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Loc
CT, not far from the LI Sound
Let the battle begin!

Customer walks in carrying a heavy load. Literally.

She wants to frame 9 antique tiles (11 x 11) each and weighing around 4+ lbs, each, in one single frame. So, there will be 36+ lbs of bricks on a foamboard (or whatever can support this quarry).

Those who hate Silly-Cone, err, Silicons, what do they suggest to attach this mass of masonry to a backing and put in a frame??

PS: Although they are antique, this is not a conservation job, so a glue lasting till the next millennium is fine.
 
ditto - researched this a while ago and concluded to use thinset on thin backerboard or equivelant that would hopefully not add to much to the weight. Customer wouldn't go for the price!
 
By S-Word I'm thinking you mean Subflooring?!

Mounting them all separately? Styudio on their website had a grid of frames within frames that could dothe job.

Bad description but how's this. Make 9 11 by 11 frames nail them to each other then surround this with a frame.
 
Check out thinset or mastic, like a tile setter would use. You would need to mount it to a rigid board that would not flex. When repairing damaged tiles I have been known to use RTV silicone.....not that I would recommend that in a frame.....let it air for a long time.
shrug.gif
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You might also look at the small metal clips that are used to hold mirrors onto walls when there is no frame.

If you wanted to get really creative after the tiles were glued on you could put grout in the gaps.....

James
 
Just my $0.02 but I have a concern with thinset. This job is going to be heavy enough that you won't be able to stop it from flexing somewhat. Wouldn't it be beter to go with some type of flexible adhesive? Liquid Nails comes to mind but I'm not positive this would be the best solution. I would be concerned about thinset cracking though.
 
I would recommend at least 1/2 inch thick plywood as a backing. Cover this plywood board with a nine hole mat (so that you can bond the tiles directly to the plywood).
Drive brads into the plywood at the bottom of each tile to support the weight mechanically.
Bond the tiles with the same acrylic mastik used for bonding paneling.
Attach D-rings directly to the plywood to hang on two hooks. The frame won't have to support any of the weight.

Or.... as Bob Doyle suggested - nine seperate frames. Screw through the back of the plywood into each frame to support the weight. Frame the plywood.
 
Grout has no holding properties that is why tile setters use mastic or thinset.

Mastic will probably be a bit lighter and hold REAL strong.
 
Paul -
I would NOT use thin-set mortar. I would mount on 1/4" masonite, using a liberal amount of "liquid nails" on the rough side of the masonite. That way, if the frame is moved (and that does happen) it should have enough "flex" w/o letting the tiles come loose. I would use GE silicon for the grout for the same reason. It also comes in several colors as well as clear.
For hanging, most likely use a "Z" bar hanging cleat.
 
Liquid nails, just a few spots, if you can sink mount the tiles too.

Use more if glueing onto back mats directly . . . and don't forget to 'key' the backing to get the LN's to hold (shouldn't be an issue on the clean tile backs).
 
Thanks for really great ideas.

I like Greg's idea and was thinking about a similar scheme but he really elaborated on the project nicely.

I did ask the customer to go home and make sure the wall will support 2 such frames (I forgot to mention she wanted TWO of those beasts!).
 
OK, Paul, I read your title to mean you were talking about a "Sword" and I couldn't figure out how you segwayed from "Sword" into "Antique Tiles" so easily with no mention of the danged Sword to begin with!!

(This cold and the resultant effects of the drugs I am taking to kick the brute are weighing heavily on my senses!)

I have absolutely nothing additional to offer as I think you already have the best answer to your dilemma posted prior on the thread.

Framerguy
 
Check out a product called HardiBacker. It comes in several thicknesses and one of it's primary ingredients is Portland Cement. It was designed specifically for underlayment for tile. I'm using it for said purpose on the countertops in the new kitchen. All the other substrates mentioned react to water, this one does not. If you use the 1/4" thick board, you may need to screw it to a plywood support (yes, it will be heavy, but I think that was a given). And grout it with grout amking sure to seal the grout well after it cures.
Use an adhesive specifically designed for tile.
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
OK, Paul, I read your title to mean you were talking about a "Sword" and I couldn't figure out how you segwayed from "Sword" into "Antique Tiles" so easily with no mention of the danged Sword to begin with!!

LOL, it is a long running joke here that Silicone (hence the "S" word) is a controversial issue.

Many claim to hate and would never use it. That's why I approached the subject stealthily... ;)
 
Right on, Paul, if you dig into the archives far enough back, you will find that I use silicone in certain cases and am not bashful one bit in owning up to it. It has its place just as cardboard, paper mats, and masking tape all have and you simply have to know what short and long term effects products will have on the contents of a frame package or their general use around the frameshop and whether it is appropriate to use those products accordingly.

That is not to assume that I condone using ANY of those products in custom framing, rather I think that you should educate yourself on the effects both good and bad of anything that you introduce into a framing package from a straight pin in a needleart mounting to a piece of self adhesive tape placed anywhere close to valuable paper art. And silicone should also be scrutinized closely before using it for adhering anything in conjunction with anything else inside an enclosed frame package.

There are MSDS sheets on most all the products that we use in the framing field and they are available online easily from the manufacturers of the products and elsewhere. The information on these critique sheets along with the R&D from organizations such as FACTS and the first hand experiences of framers such as are met here on this forum should all be ingredients in any decision to use a product of doubtful intent.

Framerguy
 
I was thinking further on this, and thought about using 33-13 Neilsen mouldings for the "inner" frames I would think an omni hanger put in backward would "grip" 2 frames together. The thin lip could be a nice "grout line".

You could then use fome core behind the tiles to help make it lighter. And while you're not looking for "conservation" these could be easily removed and wouldn't be as likely to "pop" should the frame be moved.

The outer frame could really be anything (that is sturdy enough!) that the customer likes. Maybe the Roma Galleria line.
 
You've given this a lot of thought, Bob.
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I, on the other hand, can only think of a coworker who, just yesterday, was lamenting her young daughter's first use (within earshot, anyway) of the "s-word."

"Your daughter said 'silicone'?" :eek: was probably not the response she was expecting from me.
 
Originally posted by wpfay:
Check out a product called HardiBacker. It comes in several thicknesses and one of it's primary ingredients is Portland Cement.
As a former Professional Contractor specializing in Kitchen, the above is the correct advice. Using any type of plywood is eventually going to fail as the moisture is drawn out of the thinset and into the wood layers. Use a cement board product if you are using mastic. The right material for the job. If not doing this, then make sure you use some other type of mechanical fastener. Do not rely on liquid nails on plywood.
 
There is a product on the market for attaching large mirrors directly to a wall. I have used it to attach both mirrors and tiles with out any returns; so it must work. I do not remember the name but it has great strength. Tried once to remove a mirror attached with the stuff and removed the silvering from the mirror. Word of caution, do not attempt to remove an attached mirror or you will remove the silvering. It is permanent. Suggest that you ask a glass store for the name.

Jack Cee
 
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