The poster only cost $35

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kframe

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
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Loc
Kauai, HI
The poster only cost $35, why so much for framing?
I'm sure everyone gets that - pretty much daily?

I periodically hit the customer with this.

You get your pictures processed or print a 4 x 6 or even an 8 x 10 photo on your home printer using photo paper.
Cost? About $ 0.25.
Then go to WalMart/Kmart and get a ready-Made.
Cost? About $8.00.
If it was based on the cost of the print/photo etc., you should be paying $1,120 for the framing. :bdh:
 
I get those on a daily basis. Had this one come in today. He only wanted to spend $30 "at the most" Told him he'd be lucky to get the mat at that price. He then went grabbed a crappy 18x25 frame and some black poster board. He then used double sided tape and taped a vintage 1930's newspaper add onto the poster board and popped it into the frame. Yowsa. Couple hours later, a lady had no problem spending $300+ on a lil 8x10 print. :bdh:
 
$200 tires on $20 rims.

$2,000 window treatments on $200 windows.

$200 dress with $20 shoes (or vice-versa).
 
Funny, but reality

I remind them that it is custom and they are asking me to build just one. At this point, SOMETIMES they interject and say "well, I am bringing you 4 to frame" And then I say, "that doesn't make a difference. That is a small quantity".

(This is when it gets good. Phil's Micro-econ class for the customers)
I tell them that if they asked me to build 10,000 then the cost would be $30.00 each. At that point I am reaching economies of scale and am purchasing 100,000 feet of moulding, instead of 10 feet. I am buying a truckload of glass, instead of one 6 lite box. Then I tell them that it is more time consuming to build one because of the set up and teardown time of every phase. With economies of scale, there would be one person doing the same process all day (coloring corners, cutting 20'' rails, puttying, etc.) Set up and teardown time is minimal.

Then I like to give them the car example. I say, "Can you image what it would cost to ask Ford to build a custom car? If you went to Ford and said, I want you to build me a car with 6 wheels, 6 wheel drive, 6 doors, a hovercraft option, and I want the quarter panels to be clear so that you can see all the internal components. They would look at you and say, yeah we can do that, but it will cost $256,000,000.00 Or..... you could just buy one of the cars from our mass produced fleets for $15,000 - $50,000."

This snaps them back to reality real quick and they always always always say "yeah, I guess you're right". Works like a charm every time.

Custom anything is expensive. Custom Cars, Custom Motorcycles, Custom Blinds, Custom Suits, Custom homes, etc.

regards,
Framer Phil
 
Dang it!!! You all beat me to that light bulb example.

Yeah, what a coincidence that we all came up with the same comparison. I am actually going to put an illustration of that idea on my website I think. And in my baskin-robins book (that I get from www.shutterfly.com).

dave.
 
My favourite comeback is this one:

" If you pull up at the pumps in a beat-up vee-dub and I pull up in the latest Mercedes the juice still costs the same. The pump doesn't know what the car is worth and the frame doesn't know what the artwork costs."
 
I tell them that if you put a $200 frame around that $35 poster, you now have a $235 poster, and it looks like a $235 poster, and it will look like no-one else's, because we custom made it just for you. Otherwise, you just have a $35 poster. Fun to see their attitude change, for the better.

I ordered LJ's "the steps to making a frame" model at the show. A picture being worth a thousand words, and all that.
 
artfolio said:
" If you pull up at the pumps in a beat-up vee-dub and I pull up in the latest Mercedes the juice still costs the same."
Click to expand...

Aww. Why's it gotta be a dub? :(
Anyway, the vw will appreciate the gas (or the diesel, as it may be) more, because it probably has way more soul than the merc. :thumbsup: ;)

><
 
I like most of these responses but to say them to a customer seems awkward and almost too defensive. I guess it depends on how it is said and the mood and attitude of the customer themselves.

When a customer asks why the framing is so expensive when they only paid $ 10.00 for the print it is such an irrational thought process that one of two things is happening:


1.) The customer is an ignoramus, a nut case or at least somewhat disconnected.

or

2.) They are setting you up to bargain as if they were at a garage sale or a flea market.


My first reaction is to refrain from being offended. I then size up which of the two is going on and which tack to take to gain control of the sale.

Most often in either case I respond with:

"Mary ...I'd charge the same amount for this framing design if you brought me a blank sheet of paper to frame. If you'd like to look at a less expensive approach I'd be happy to show you something else."

Usually they then either "get it" or realize you're not going to cower. More often than not they realize what a stupid remark they made and we go forward with the project.

On the other hand, when I quote a customer and they have sticker shock I realize they aren't use to the cost of having custom services performed. I respect a customer who admits they had no idea what the cost would be and I try to go out of my way to accommodate whatever budget they feel they can afford.
 
That's a very good way of looking at it, Dave. We must always respect the customer. I like to keep a little humor in my interaction with customers in general (unless they are a stick-in-the-mud type, which fortunately isn't too often), so sometimes I could get away with the bulb/lamp type of analogy.
As to the "volume" issue, Jay Goltz always says that just because he takes 3 boys to get their hair cut he doesn't get a quantity discount... In that case I do invoke the "economies of scale" argument, explaining that if I am doing a show for an artist who is using the same materials for 20 pieces, I can buy in bulk and pass the savings along, but regular custom framing is just that- custom (individualized)- no matter how many individual pieces are done at one time. Then I might offer ways to get closer to the budget without spoiling the overall design approach.

:cool: Rick

P.S. A sign of inflation: When this topic has been discussed before, it was usually, "The poster only cost me $15".:icon11:
 
I hear the same thing. I am tempted to offer them 4 thumb tacks for $1.00

Another one: "I paid $20.00 for the poster, I don't want to pay any more than that to get it framed"

 
FramerDave said:
A light bulb costs about $2.00 and a nice lamp can run $200 easily. Yet one is useless without the other.

Thank you Jared Davis.
Click to expand...

Cheers FramerDave!
:beer:

here's another one I like -

"The curtains on your windows probably cost more than the glass itself, but can you imagine your windows without the curtains?"

another one:

"So if you got it for free, how much would you be willing to spend to get it framed then?"
 
"The price of the frame really bears little relation to the price of the art you put in it unless we are adding extra preservation and design techniques for a valuable piece of art. We have lots of alternatives for this pieces, so let's look at a few others."

Never, ever, insult the customer. Offer some good alternatives. A ready made if necessary, but get the sale. Often the customer will go back to the expensive design anyway. Keep that one on the table or visualization system so they can lust after it while you examine less expensive alternatives.;)

Jared--are you BACK already?! Jared gave some excellent advice on this topic during his speech at one of the PPFA events. He addressed all the difficult questions customers can ask. Great talk, Jared.
 
I get virtually no price resistance at all. However on the odd occation that I do, I have a rock bottom frame that I refer to as "the cheapest frame in town" becuase it is. Very very quickly I get that price out there in front of them and that ends that. We don't do any tap dancing nor do I have to figure out if they are 1 or 2. Most importantly I don't have to find some fancy come-back. I think that having the cheapest frame in the shop handy saves alot of time and cuts through a ton of bs.
 
Whether you wear a $2 thrift store dress or a $7,000 wedding dress.... it doesn't seem to truly improve whats in the package..... but look at the excited face of the groom.

"Because YOU'RE worth it." Thank you again Jared.
 
Kirstie said:
Jared--are you BACK already?! Jared gave some excellent advice on this topic during his speech at one of the PPFA events. He addressed all the difficult questions customers can ask. Great talk, Jared.
Click to expand...

I'm not back home yet, I'm still hanging around for a week or so - seeing some sights before I head back Down Under again.

Thank you everyone for the kind words and feedback after my presentation on Friday morning. There are some great stories & ideas out there. It was fun...

Thank you Kirstie, it was really nice to meet you at the Grumble Dinner - and thanks Baer too - I really enjoy Baer's "out of the square" ideas & thoughts, which are always entertaining. Finding a way to make a customer smile or laugh is a great way to overcome objections...

I can see where Jay is coming from aswell. From seeing previous pics of Jay's shop on the grumble, and from reading Jay's past thoughts and comments over the years, I feel Jay has found a great way to offer a very nice overall retail experience. I firmly believe that working on your overall shop presentation and "front counter experience" are the best ways to neutralize these questions so they don't even happen.

As they say, prevention is better than the cure...

:)
 
kframe said:
The poster only cost $35, why so much for framing?
Click to expand...

"You know, they probably make 10,000 of those photos, and if you get us to frame that many we could get the price way down there too!"
 
And as Jared knows.... it's all about how the hair feels..... and If you weren't there.. I ain't talking.

Wow $35 for a poster from Amsterdam..... that's a great price. Last time I went to Amsterdam the poster cost me $974 for the flight, $241 for the car rental, and $680 for the food and lodging.
 
My usual answer in this circumstance is something like, "If the picture (or whatever) had cost you 100x as much, the frame price would still be the same". ;)
 
I always feel like the customers really can justify the amount by what connection they have to the piece. If its their great-great grandparents or artwork their 3 year old did or a $3 piece of fabric they got from a street artist................... If it means something to them, in my opinion, they don't have a problem with the price. It usually the ones I have a problem with that find something at a garage sale and are trying to make something for nothing! :shrug:
When they get the sticker-shock glassy look in their eye..... I tell them I do have a STRETCHER in the back and I am certified in CPR! Usually that breaks in a little laugh!:p
This IS the BEST job in the whole WORLD!;)
 
Customer calls:

Hello. Ken’s Picture Framing. This is Ken
Yes. I have an 8 X 10 old photo of my grandfather. How much would you charge me to frame it?
Yes, I frame old photos all the time. How much do you think I should charge you?
I do not know. I have a budget of under $250.00
OK.
Do you think it would cost less than that?
I think that is doable.
Great, I am here until 6PM
Ok, I will bring it in today

:-)

Who am I to blow against the wind? -Paul Simon
 
kframe said:
The poster only cost $35, why so much for framing?
Click to expand...

I simply explain "If this artwork instead cost $4,000, then this frame would still be just $___". then continue to say "I've had customers find something charming at a garage sale for $5, and spend $200 to frame it".

It's the nature of custom work. A custom suit cost $300. A readymade suit may cost you $60.
 
I think you just have to explain that the price is driven by the materials chosen, and how much you need. Jay H's cheapest frame in town, on a 40x60 poster, might cost more than a much more expensive frame on an 8x10. And you have to explain that the materials chosen don't cost more or less depending on whether it's an original Picasso or a poster of a Picasso. We don't get a different price from our vendors just because the customer only spent $35.

Until they start buying more expensive artwork, there will always be a mismatch between the cost of framing and the cost/value of the thing being framed.
 
Jim Miller said:
That's a great analogy, but youy might uodate your numbers. A custom suit is more like $1,800 and a decent rack suit is more like $300.
Click to expand...

that shows how often I buy good clothes! ;)
 
Sometimes, if I am in the right mood, I will tell a customer like this that "Yesssssss! Well, now you have that much more to spend on framing!" Or if I am really in the mood, I tell them that they should spend real money and buy some real art!!!

On second thought, maybe I don't say those things at all.

A comment like that tells me I have a newbie in my shop and a little edumacating is in order.

edie the insertfootAinmouthB goddess
 
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