THE new way to hang a picture

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Mrs.B

Mrs.B

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
225
Loc
Huntington, Indiana
Just had a customer bring in something she had framed at Michaels. It's an old political poster of Bobby Kennedy. Really cool. It fell off the wall and split one corner of the frame, but didn't break the glass. What surprised me was it doesn't have a wire, just a sticker on the back that says: "No wire, please hang from D rings on screws". The picture is 22x38 and only weighs maybe 15 pounds. Seems like a complicated way to have to hang something. You know, make sure the screws are the right distance apart, and level! Maybe Wallbuddies don't fit into their budget or they don't know they make wire to hold that kind of weight. Just an observation.
 
I’ve encountered the “D-ring – no wire” arrangement a few times, but I‘ve seen it with the pre-framed art that folks pick up at the Big Box stores – you know, with 14,000 staples still stuck in the corner protectors.

The D-rings all seem to be secured with two screws fastened vertically (and never exactly level with each other) so that they cannot swivel, and can’t be leveled the way they suggest without an advance degree in trigonometry.

I usually express my astonishment (I’ve got the act down to perfection) at this silly arrangement, and suggest to the customer that they let me remove one of the screws allowing the D-ring to swivel, then string wire (#4 or #8 [if I’m feeling particularly mischievous] to match the over done D-ring), and present them with a 80# hanger.

Throw some bumpons on the bottom and they’ll think you are a framing genius.
 
That's what you get with quick "education" passed through a revolving chain of framers who weren't taught right themselves.

That was the M.O. in the two Michaels frame shops I worked in.
I remember thinking early on, "then what's the big wire for?" cause it seemed we never used it unless we ran out of smaller wire and nobody ordered more.

Of course every framer had their own "it's too big for wire" size.
What's worse is the "it's not too big for a single hammer-in sawtooth" method....Scary.
 
Probably they just couldn't bother with stringing the wire. Anyway, that's why Michael's is so much cheaper than the rest of us -- we charge our customers such ridiculous amounts for our fancy-schmancy "museum wire" :nuts:
 
Kev@Frames said:
how big is too big for wire? :popc:
Click to expand...

G'day Kev,

Probably not so much size, but weight.
I put together larger mirrors framed from time to time.

For round frames up to ~ 15kg (~33lbs) I use 2 sets of double screw d-rings, and 25kg (55lb) rated wire, strung intertwined but fully independent (back up).
I give clients instructions to use 2 wall hooks / pan head screws of suitable style for the mirror, and of an anchor type to suit their wall material.
For anything heavier than 15kg, I'd use 2 large d-ring straps either side ~ 1/3 to down from the top.

Ali Z-bar would be my choice on rectangle / square frames, or side stile d-rings would probably suffice.

Of course, panoramic style framing could use side stile d-rings with a lot less weight, unless you can be absolutely sure that a client can be trusted to use 2 very widely spaced wall hooks.
Giving them a very much exposed wire set (if they used one hook) up can MAKE them do this.
 
hi les :)

yeah, I "bottle out" at anything near a full sheet of glass for wire or cord- 36x48 inches in the UK (thats actually a "half sheet").
Anything anywhere near that and im encouraging the customer to seriously look at alternative fixing methods, AND styrene acrylic glazing to be on the safe side.
 
I see this all the time

It is a common practice to use "2 d-rings w/o wire" method in the art gallery world. We have pieces come in that are huge (4 ft by 6 ft or larger). They need 2 people to hang them, they are so heavy. The d-rings are attached vertically and hung in 2 nails. If measured well when attaching the rings and using a level when nailing your nail... it works like a charm.
 
Whenever I use that hanging method, or Wallbuddies, I make the customer a cardboard template with holes at the proper positions. All they have to do is hold up the template, mark, and hang. They think I'm some kind of genius.
This also serves to protect the glass during transport, and is a great way to recycle large glass boxes.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Kev@Frames said:
oh dear. it wont be long before we get that on this side of the pond then :-(

how big is too big for wire? :popc:
Click to expand...

The problem here is not the dead weight of the frame but the forces at work on an angled cord. There was a previous post on the Australian grumble website about this which incorporated a formula for calculating the strength of wire/cord needed.

The problem is that as the load is imposed the cord pulls inwards on the sides of the frame with a consequent bulging upwards of the top and sides. there is also some twisting action. You can easily demonstrate this by picking up an aluminium frame.

If memory serves me correctly the formula is to divide the sine of the angle the cord makes from a horizontal line into the weight of the frame. The result (and the sine is a decimal) is the stress imposed on each anchor point. If the cord is stretched so tightly that it only deflects 2 degrees the force is 17 times the weight of the frame on each anchor point.. At 10 degrees this is reduced to around 7 times (I think).

I will hunt up the article on Monday and post the relevant URL here as it makes sobering reading.
 
When I saw the name of the thread I thought you were talking about the "magic-marker" system. I'm seriously thinking about using this system when it becomes available in a month or so. Ever since Cliff pointed it out to me I have had three or more orders I have thought they are perfect for!

What kind of issues can you foresee in using them? My real main concern is customer education. Oh and badly warped moulding!

Artfolio, the Facts website has a drawing of the issue you mention. Good picture to print out and keep on the counter for customer education purposes!
 
Rick Granick said:
Whenever I use that hanging method, or Wallbuddies, I make the customer a cardboard template with holes at the proper positions.
Click to expand...
I've always done that for security hanging systems. Not a bad idea to do it all the time. I always put that sheet of cardboard on the front to protect the glass anyway. Rick, I think you just might be a genius! For a few customers I might even label "TOP" & "Front of Picture" too.
 
That Magic Marker system looks pretty cool but I can't see a lot of customers being able to follow those instructions - and it seems kinda confusing for hangers to be allofasudden called markers.

Hmmmmm.....

And if you aren't supposed to need any measuring devices how does one determine 1/3 of the way down the frame??? ;)

Are they aiming their pitch at framers or framees???
 
artfolio,

The F.A.C.T.S. standard (FRM 339) describes what you are referring to, I think.

As you point out, a more acute angle on the wire places more tension on the wire, so (using a F.A.C.T.S. example), a frame weighing 10 pounds hung with a wire that is angled at only 15° will have a tension of 19 pounds.

Following their math, as the angle approaches zero, the tension will approach infinity, and, therefore, should always break.

But, we’ve all seen “home brewed” examples where wire has been strung like a tightrope, and it has supported a frame for years.

Increasing the angle of the wire is not always practical (or, to my mind, always necessary). I do think we should always be aware of the stresses that will imposed on the wire when we are fitting a frame, and use a gauge of wire that exceeds the tension that will be imposed on it.

I’ll bet that the vast majority of frames we do are well under 30 pounds. The number 8 braided wire we use is rated at 145 pounds, so even with a reasonably acute angle, I think that that is more than adequate.

Besides, if the frame hits the deck once they get home, we can always blame it on them, and charge them again for a refit. :)
 
Studly Spacing

The stud spacing comment was a good one. Whenever doing oversize pieces with the double D-ring, I make loops out of #3 wire for each ring. I coil it through the loop 3X & finish the wire toward the top of the loop. It ends up looking like a small noose. The distance between the top of the loops should be a multiple of 16". I also staple a note to the loop with instructions.

Hanging the piece for the customer is the way to go, but the insurance can be a bit steep. Sometimes it's better to let a local art handler do that for you...and hopefully reciprocate by throwing some work your way.:beer:
 
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