The Grumble not The Grumpy


MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Apr 18, 2004
:( After reading past threads and current ones, I have to comment on a concern. I have been a registered member of The Grumble for over a year and a guest before joining. The rude responses are escalating--I am a big girl and can take it. However, new grumblers have posted beginner questions and have been lambasted for asking :mad: . Yes, I think all professional framers should take courses and attend additional classes as I did and do, but it obviously takes years to learn all the correct terminology and processes. Please remember you were once a beginner as well. You did not become a "know it all" overnight, or maybe some of you think you did. Please be respectful of other grumblers' questions and comments.
You've addressed an ongoing problem. Various, different 'veteran' G'ers answer new framer's questions in various ways.

Some are helpful, sincerely, and some need the **** slapped out of them. I don't frame any more, there are those who say I never did, but I knew NOTHING about the Fone Company when I went to work there, and I survived for 30 ye-ahs.*

Perhaps the snide, derisive G'ers are feeling intimidated...Come on over to Warped! We party over there ALL the time!

AH! I just realized, yet another Southern Lady, from Alabama, no less! May I take this opportunity, my dear, to welcome you to ow-wer* group. And might I add, should you evah* find yourself in NC, and should you wish it so, we shall enjoy a cool mint julep, and discuss the horrendous situation concerning the Carpetbaggers and Scalawags.

*High Southern, spoken by few, and, sadly, remembered by fewer.
Being that all the communications are in text form, we can't always get mild sarcasm or ribbing the way we would communicating face to face.

You are right however that some of the responses seem harsh sometimes. But was it really meant to be? It depends on how well you know the person.

Maybe we all just need a vacation. I know I could use one.

Jerry is right on. It is impossible to say somethings in writing and have them not be taken as harsh.

I find everyone here to be extremely freindly and heplful. Even if they all think they know everything. How can they, I know everything. Me. Only me.

See. Could easily be taken as a nasty condescending statement, but it wasn't It was simply sarcasm.

I love the "G"
In general we are a good group, but certain topics do set us off. I am thinking of CCBoss in particular. We jumped all over him/her pretty quickly!

In support of us, some of us will read a new person's post, then go to their "Profile" to see who we are talking to. When we see offensive jokes, or deceptive info we get offended/angered. Take it as an insult, perhaps, that we are not being taken seriously.

Profiles are read. Some Grumbler Newbies have been taken to task for putting "comments" in there that they think others will never see. But please remember if your comments interest us then we may want to learn more about you, and that is our primary source.
I think it is all up for interpretation Sister. From where I sit there is hardly a blip of hostility anymore. Take a look at some of the other framing forums, we are squeaky clean. There have been some real dust ups if you check the archives.. It seems as we are not as easily provoked as we have been in the past. As an example, Cornel can't even get a rise out of us anymore.

There were a couple unfriendly posts in the thread that probably provoked this posting that were uncalled for. Or at least misguided. His original posting was not clear. I think the hostile reactions were gut reactions that somebody was running a shop without basic knowledge. Obviously it could have been said in a much nicer way. Then it turned out he wasn't asking what people though he was and then all is well.......

It is impossible to get tone and intent by the written word so I think you need to develop a thick skin if you enter the fray, I know I had to. We don't want to become a dull message board where everything is neutral, I love the dialogue.

For all the new people out there, do not be afraid. I think some in this group have been together for so long that we just automatically think everybody will "get us". For all of us old timers, be nice, not everybody is going to understand your peccadilloes. :(
I've often thought that there should be a disclaimer on the index page that if you want to join
1) you have to first log 20 hours reading past history of "stupid questions".
2) There should be a restricter that prevents you from starting a new thread before your 25th post. Which would slow down the One hit wonders like CCboss.

3) It's now 11 o'clock on a long weelkend, I'm firing up the BBQ, neighbor just brought home some road kill salmon. :D

Play nice now. and Sister, Welcome to the Grumpble
I like Baers suggestions. I might add that section exclusively for very rookie questions. Like "How do you open a frameshop?"

If you think things recently have been rude remember thread that started with these questions:

"I'm getting ready to open 144 stores and I'm wondering what you consider a big box?"

Another good one is "How can I frame cheaply myself instead of paying framers the absorbent fees they charge?"

I think these questions are way more disrespectful than any response they have gotten.

Sister I too have asked some really rookie questions. Several times I was met with a sharp tongue-lashing from a particular “gentleman”. Ironically I have as much respect for this man today than any other I have met. For that I say, “thanks for not sugar coating things.”

So is anybody out there actually paying for moulding samples these days?
Just bought some last month. Thank you.

I buy the samples, they don't charge me shipping and I get 10% off. Samples cost 2', they ship 2', and I make my own chevrons. We're both happy.
Thanks for the responses from "ya'll". Thanks, Charles; yes, I am a true Southerener through and through, and my respect for others prompted this thread in the first place. After teaching 7th and 8th graders for 28 years, I am thick skinned and got anything but sugar-coated comments. However, with fellow teachers or with students, giving advice could be sarcastic and helpful but never considered a confrontation.

It basically comes down to many personalities in one room (or forum if you will). My main concern is for newbies who are eager to learn. Welcome them first, then lash out. I, too, love this forum and have learned as much from it as from any other sources. My advice to newbies is to read past threads to learn the different Grumblers and their comments.

Another suggestion would be for all (newbies especially) to make questions and responses clear when read by others.

Thanks again, "ya'll".
Talk about miscommunications.

I've had more pitched battles with Kathy/Emibub than with any other Grumbler (at least any that are still here.)

Through sheer stubbornness, we both persisted in talking to, and yelling at, each other until we somehow reached some level of understanding.

Now I consider her one of my best friends on The Grumble.

Don't give up too easily.

My experience is that naive questions, honestly asked, are generally treated well. Certainly there are exceptions, but I think the politeness quotient is better here than anywhere else I've been in the cyber world.
Yeah, I agree, Ron has worked through all his difficulties and come to see the light and realized the error of his ways, we like each other now.

But, unfortunately I think it was a lot more entertaining for others the other way is kind of dull around here since Ron and I aren't misunderstanding each and every thing we say to each other. But, he is one of my favorite Grumblers now, so I can live with it. Somebody else will have to entertain the troops.....

We all have started some time, some place as green beginners and humbly learned to walk before running.
By the way, a pilot who's pointing to his airplane's propellers, and is concerned with them turning because he only saw them still, is a beginner? The answer could be YES, if you were out of that plain, NO if you had a seat in there. I for one get nervous in such instances regardless.
But that's only me, I guess. ;)


As I'm saying, don't throw good money after bad ...molding samples! Eventually you'll get them for free.

Have a good Sunday evening everybody.
I'll pay for them, just as soon as I find some worth paying for.
Maybe we all just need a vacation. I know I could use one.
After a good holiday break and a few "mint juleps" to unwind, I realize I must have been hormonal when making this original post. That's me, always trying to take up for somebody else. You should have read what I deleted before posting--Lord forbid!

OK so this does not belong in this forum--forgive me.

So is anybody out there actually paying for moulding samples these days?
We never pay for moulding samples. Just got a truckload from Roma, new ones from LJ. We are small though and don't carry but 4 moulding lines.
Sister, I LOVE your sig. line.

Not that you were even close to bursting into hysteria, the concern was valid, just reminded me of your sig. line.

Glad the holiday break has returned you to your "buds of calm!" :

Overall, the Grumble is a darn good group of folks who, I think, enjoy helping others in our craft.

As far as web sights for the picture framing industry goes, The Grumble is hands down, absolutely the best, most professionally run, most knowledgeable members, wonderful people, best looking, hardest working, funniest, you name it, we are just plain wonderful.

The Grumble is what other web sights wish they could become someday.

To suggest that some of us might have offended a newbie is just plain ridicules. That would be imposable, we are just too darn nice for such things.

I was offended when I first came on here... but I got over it. I thought... geezz what's all this attacking for... but after I forgot about that... it was just plain fun.... and yes opinions are aloud, even mine!!! I love yall!!!! Thanks for accepting me, I've learned a lot and have met some people on here I consider friends!!

Sister-I understand the hormonal posting thing.... look at my thread in warped (I'm tired of this!)
Ya know, one of my oldest friends, an uber cyber geek type, who has been in the cyber biz for MANY years - he told me that among the cyber geeks, the Grumble is absolutely FAMOUS as a really great example of how a bulletin board should be run. He was with a geek group one night and they were showing the G as an example and my friend saw my handle and said - "Gee, I know HER!!!"

So we should be VEWWY VEWWY proud of what we have all accomplished here!
Lemme see if I understand this, Mar.

All these geeks get together periodically in kind of a cyber book club and discuss internet bulletin boards?

Now I don't feel quite so guilty/foolish about watching Desperate Housewives (and a rerun, at that) last night.

I used to visit a few other framing sites. Some would go for DAYS without a single post on ANYTHING at all. Others, apparently unmoderated or moderated by monkeys, would tolerate derision, humiliation and profanity toward a poster who happened to mention a term like "home-based."

There seem to be two kinds of people who get in trouble on The Grumble. Those who come in here thinking they already know everything and they are going to enlighten us, and those who believe The Grumble is going to be the means to learn everything they need to know to run a frameshop.

Everybody else settles in and finds a comfortable spot.
I'm quite comfy now, thanks. I can appreciate what you all are saying
There seem to be two kinds of people who get in trouble on The Grumble. Those who come in here thinking they already know everything and they are going to enlighten us, and those who believe The Grumble is going to be the means to learn everything they need to know to run a frameshop.
You were right on with that paragraph, Ron. That puts it all in perspective.
(How do you get "Originally posted by . . . to show with a quote?
You click on the quote signs at the top of the original post you want to quote. Then you delete the part you don't want to include in the quote (being careful not to delete any of the formatting.) Then add your own comments after the formatting.
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
Then you delete the part you don't want to include in the quote (being careful not to delete any of the formatting.)
This is a test - if it works, it will revolutionize my life! The first time I tried quote I didn't do it right and it traumatized me so much I never tried again. Here goes!


OMG - it worked. Thanks Ron!