The 2006 Grumble Competition

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Posts
9,908
Loc
KY
Ok well I volunteered for this year’s competition. If anybody objects and would like to do it I have no problem what so ever passing the baton over to them. After all I wasn’t elected I was self-selected (take jokes over to warped please).

Last year the competition evolved as people weighed in on tweaks they thought should be made. I’m thinking that this year it shouldn’t be so hard to reach an agreement on the rules. However, I still would like everybody to weigh in on their ideas and I hope that this year will be just as or more successful that last.

Last year here were the categories:

(1) Objects/Shadowboxes
(2) Art/prints on Canvas
(3) Decorator Prints
(4) Limited Editions
(5) needlework/textiles
(6) collages
(7) other /weird stuff not mentioned


This year to coincide with a recent thread about washed lines I suggest we tweak the categories just a bit and do this:

(1) Objects/Shadowboxes
(2) Art/prints on Canvas
(3) Works on paper (posters, photos, LE Prints)
(4) Specialty matting
(5) needlework/textiles
(6) collages
(7) other /weird stuff not mentioned

What I did is just combine paper art and added a category for some awesome matting. I think this category would be for either special cuts or decorations. Obviously almost everything in this category could potentially go into another category (unless the matting is the art) but it’s up to you.

One other suggestion I have is for scoring. Last year there was some serious consideration as to rather we would vote or have judges. I believe we ended up with judges. I’m not sure if we ever knew for sure how the judges were to vote but I say we standardize the voting from the judges and also include the popular vote.

Why not have the G polling booth make up a part of the final score? For example why not have the judges allot up to 5 points for technical application and 5 for overall execution or something similar.

Then the popular vote would allot the winner 5 points, second 4 points, third 3 points, fourth 2 points, and fifth 1 point. (I haven’t totally thought out these numbers and this is just an example.) So the popular choice would only account for 1/3 of the final score. Anyway at the end of it we would get a score from 0 – 15 and that would determine the grand poobah.

Ohh and one other idea. I may wish I had never ever said this but I think that contestants should be allowed to enter any and all categories. Last year we had a limit of 2 categories per contestant. While this is a fun little game to find out who is a wicked awesome framer, the primary reason of this (IMHO) is to see many nice pieces. I don’t mine limiting how many times a person can win. I think you could with both categories you entered last year and I don’t mind keeping it at two but I see no reason for not entering all the categories if you wish!

Questions, comments, concerns?
 
Thank you Jay, you will do awesome. The judges mixed with the poll results is a good idea. I think there was a fear of multiple voting from the same person at more than one computer last year... but really it didn't pose a problem. Good luck, I can't wait to see the entries.

Angie
 
Hi Jay,
Good for you! Sounds like you already have a good plan.

I just wanted to comment that I am the one who insisted on judges last year. Originally it was just supposed to be for fun but once people started offering real prizes due to the loopholes in our polling system it seemed only fair to the sponsors. Plus, we had PPFA sanctioned judges last year which I think made it a bigger win. I guess it depends on whether you have prizes lined up this year or not as to how serious the voting needs to be.............

It was a real blast last year, I bet it will bew a big hit this year too!
 
I agree Kathy. I think having the polling make up only part of the final will deter cheating. Plus if somebody is willing to cheat to win, I'm willing to let them.

OF coarse everything hinges on the sponcers agreeing too.
 
Jay,
I like the idea of people being able to enter an unlimited amount of categories. I say if they're that fired up and can crank out enough entries, we benefit by having more great framing to ooh, aah and vote on.

Congrats on your willingness on taking this on... this may completely hurt your chances of getting "youngest curmudgeon" in next year's Grumbler's Choice Awards, but you'll just have to chance that!
 
I hope you will accept help that is offered to you Jay.
It's a very large job for one person alone.

Sounds like you have already given it some thought and I'm sure you'll do a great job.
 
This will probably be an evening project for me and so I won't be doing much on it durning the day. It seems that so far there has been very little debate of the small changes. Unless somebody shoots holes in the changes we will try to plug along with this in as little as a week or two?


Tonight I will start to line up judges and see if past sponcers are interested in helping out again this year.

For now I'll continue to do some behind-the-scenes stuff and accept ideas here.

Carry on.
 
Ok I just want to bump this to the top and let everybody know that things are happening behind the scenes right now!

Be photoshoping (sorry Capt. at least its not scrapbooking)your pictures and get them ready to post. It's my plan for this to happen fast and furious and I don't want to surprise anybody.

A couple of things.

Please give me input on the changes. Nothing is final but I don't want to wait till the official rules are posted then have a bunch of questions, comments, or concerns. NOW is the time to voice concerns not then so please help!

I'm working on gathering prizes. If you would like to donate anything please contact me. The prizes are a huge help to encourage participation and I intend to fully recognize all donations and their donators.

I'm planning to also build a small webpage to archive the entries. I will also see if we can get a small button or sticky note at the top of the design page to link to that site for easy access. I'm sad to see that many of the entries from last year are already gone. A dedicated page will prevent this and also give our sponsors year around credit.

That’s all for now.

Carry on.
 
Your ideas sound great to me, Jay! Sounds like you have really been doing a lot of thinking to pull this all together so fast.

Carry on!!!
 
Just bringing this back up to the top.................we have our judges. Mark Klostermeyer, Jim Miller and John Raines have all graciously agreed to serve again..........Thanks Jim, John and Mark!
 
Thats good news and thanks for sorting that out Kathy.

We need to just nail down a few small details and the offical thread will be out soon.
 
We need input from the judges.............the idea is to include a poll for popular choice winners and to include those choices in with the judges over all scores for the final winners. The judges aren't completely comfortable with that. I think we need to defer to the judges because they are experienced in this area and they will need certain criteria to give us their best efforts...............

But, as judges is it possible to include popular choice as a portion of the overall score?

Either way, we need to have popular choice selections as part of the contest because that is fun for us all.

Jay wants a public discussion so he isn't making all the decisions. This is a big deal guys, once again generous offerings for prizes...........please speak up with thoughts. Let's hammer it out now so we are all on the same page.
 
Why don't you just have a people's choice award again?
That makes sense to me.

The judges will make a decision based on their more formal criteria and Grumblers can vote for the pieces they like the best.

Anyone else want to express and opinion?
 
Originally posted by Emibubba:
...we have our judges. Mark Klostermeyer, Jim Miller and John Raines have all graciously agreed to serve again..........Thanks Jim, John and Mark!
You have at least one sponsor, too, American Choice.
 
I guess we could just award ribbons and certificates to the popular choice categories. Either that or see if the sponsors will increase their generosity to 8 winners and we can have one popular choice winner of all the entries. Or Jay was considering eliminating one category and replacing it with the popular choice category so we can keep it at 7.

I'm assuming that first prize in each category wins a prize and second and third will get ribbons and certificates?

Here is your round table discussion Jay. Hopefully, people will post their thoughts here instead of emailing privately so it will be an open discussion......................
 
Yes Cornel, I didn't mean to leave you out..............Jay will make an official announcement in the official thread. We are just hammering out the small details.........Thanks for your generosity too by the way!
 
I woudln't be opposed to dropping a catagory. I would suggest that our sponcers are already going above and beyond the call of duty.
 
Which category Jay? Maybe collages? Or just leave the categories in place and we will just award ribbons and certs to popular choice winners?
 
I take that back....why not eliminate "Other"? The entries will just have to fit a category.............I like that!
 
Hey Jay, it looks to me like the decision will be up to you if nobody else chimes in. If you give fair warning and nobody speaks up then call it as you see it. As it should be considering you are orchestrating the whole thing. Just do what you see fit.
thumbsup.gif
 
I didn't realize how much the fact that i can't eneter has upset me until i posted the following reply on the "Color Coding "thread by mistake.

I mean this in the nicest way. However I have tried to avoid reading this thread for a long time. It is the thing I miss most about not having a shop anymore. I don't have any way to generate work to enter and while competing was a major fault of mine ( instead of learning to be a businessman) I do truly miss the competition here and everywhere else that I used to enter. I am only sorry I never won any recognition in a PPFA contest like Barb + Angie and Pam .But I will be watching the entries and do hope you havea popular choice categorie.
BUDDY
 
Yep, looks like I'm the only opinionated one around here so to echo Kathy, do as you see fit.
 
Thanks guys. We are nearing the end of the beginning.

As the mechanic of this, I have just about collected all the info I need to indeed carry on.

I think "other" is out and we will remove "other" and award contestants with a popular choice chance. Without any conference, all three judges had concerns with the popular choice being added into the final score. While I disagree, popular choice rules.

While I sort things out and get ready to run the formal contest the only request I have is if anybody has an inside tract and could possibly arrange for some additional awards, that would be great. We have some really good ones lined up but is there really too many? I think not.
 
What kind of "awards" are you looking for ??
 
Jay, I think the judges, [being long time official international judges...] have it right.

Popular Choice is a catigory all it's own. I must not be allowed to interfer with the the judging.

It also allows for a winner to also double up and be a PC also.

OR a non-winner to win as the PC.
 
I agree with Baer - last year when I did my Art Horse project, all of the entries were judged and awarded points, 1-5: 1 being the lowest and 5, naturally being the highest. All the judges did was mark down points for each horse and then I added up all of these points in each category of both artists and horses.

Ribbons were assigned by points. The Art Horse with the overall best score from all 5 judges won the "Best of Show."

On the actual night of the auction, each attendee was given a ticket to vote for his favorite Art Horse and obviously the one with the most votes won The People's Choice Award.

So this system works quite well - or at least it worked for us!
 
Depending on the number of entries it might owrk bettter to do 1-10 scoring. This would separate the scores a bit more in hopes of not having any ties.

I would say it is fine to leave out other and do a peoples choice.

To get more prizes you could talk to some of the companies you buy from and explain what is happening and see if they would go for it? I know that is so basic you already thought of it...just thought I would throw in Mr. Obvious' idea.

Pl
 
Again, it seems that it will be the same this year as well as last. I disagree and always will but I won't change it.

The primary reason I disagree is because the judges can't hold these pieces. They can't disassemble them nor always know what mat, mounting, moulding is used. Sometimes the pictures are horrible and some are quite nice and doctored. So it’s not completely an even field to begin with. So if its not going to be fair then we should do everything possible to make it fun.

This isn't to fly in the face of the judges and their sharp eye. Without the judges the same would happen and the competition would lose significant flare to it.

Again, this was an issue last year. Angie seemed to have addressed it correctly. Unless you feel the need to speak up on the other side, I'll consider this a dead issue.

As far as prizes, I'm not referring to anything specific at all. We have two really great sponsors already and if anybody wants to ante up and join in the fun, they are welcome to jump in.
 
Hey Patrick - thanks for the idea about using 10 points for scoring instead of 5! We did end up with a lot of ties last year - this year I'm stealing your idea! THANKS!

Carry On Jay!
 
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