Suggested Permanent Bond Heat Activated Tissue to be used with fibre based papers and Max Metal?

[SMGlass]

I’m a professional commercial photographer that dabbles in printing and mounting for family member prints, as well as a handful of retail and commercial clients. I’ve been mounting the ink jet prints on Grimco’s Max Metal which is a very smooth material it is basically a dibond type material; see the following link:

Grimco | https://www.grimco.com/Catalog/Product/MM843MW

I have been using Seal’s Print Mount Ultra pressure adhesive. I adhered it with a inexpensive manual roller. The Seal product worked great on pieces smaller than 16”x24”, but the adhesion fails on larger pieces. That said, I’m looking to use a heat press / dry mount press to adhere fiber based fine art papers to the Max Metal substrate. I do NOT need it to be archival. I want this stuck, stuck, stuck and never to come off. What type of “dry mount tissue” / “heat activated tissues” would any of you suggest? Again, I want a permanent bond. I just picked up a very used (hammered) Seal Dry Mount Jumbo 150 press to begin experimenting with.

Thanking all for your responses!

Ps. I also bought the book, Mounting And Laminating Handbook (3rd Edition), based on other threads I have read on this forum. It has yet to arrive, but I’m excited to dig into it!

 

[wpfay]

Hi, and welcome to the G.

My understanding is that the ACM panels are not ideal for high temperature heat mounting as the core is plastic (Polypropylene I think) and will soften in the process.
Mounting is usually done to ACM with cold roller presses and specialized adhesive films.
That said Kool Tack does make an ACM panel called Competition Plate with a proprietary heat activated adhesive on one side that has a low temperature bond. I have had success with it on photos up to 40" X 40" in my Seal vacuum press.

 

[LaFontsee]

We have some experience mounting larger pieces onto ACM with a cold roller press. Even with ideal conditions, we have had some failures. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is, but if I had to guess, I'd think that the expansion/contraction rate of dissimilar materials loosens the adhesive over time and causes a failure.

Like Wally says, ACM isn't an ideal substrate for high heat. KoolTack's competition plate uses their sprayed-on adhesive that reactivates at a relatively low temperature (150-160 degrees). We have used fabric adhesive wet on sanded ACM to mount more robust artwork. There's a much higher risk factor and learning curve when doing a wet mount.

As an artist, would it be possible for you to print directly to the ACM? I know there are printable materials available at sign suppliers. I don't know how the print quality stacks up to paper prints.

 

[Jim Miller]

I'm not sure, but maybe acrylic gel medium would work well for your purpose. As an experiment, use a paint roller to apply a thin coating to your board, position your print, and put it in a 160-degree press for about five minutes - or whatever time it takes to come out dry. Alternatively, maybe drying overnight under weight would work, as well.

If acrylic gel works as an adhesive, then it would be chemically stable and inert, so it should not weaken over time. But since it is a water-borne acrylic emulsion, the paper would have to be porous enough to allow evaporation. If the paper is very porous, then drying should be reasonably fast; if the paper is not porous at all, then the acrylic gel might not dry for a long time.

 

[SMGlass]

Thanks for all the input! I'll chew on all of it and I'll do some testing and report back on what I find. And BTW, the heat issued hadn't even crossed my mind with the polyethylene core - doh! According to the spec sheet the ACM I'm using can only take 90C or a 190 F. So that limits a lot of the heat press options.

My best adhesion was using 3M 77 Super spray. I mounted a 40"x60 piece and it's been holding for 6 months with no problems with a problematic paper. However I just hated the process of the spary - it so stinky and difficult to work with. When I made that piece, I lighted scuffed the surface of the ACM by doing a light sanding block thinking the rougher surface would give more "grip" for the glue to bind to.

And I agree with you Lafontsee, I do think it has to do with the different expansion / contraction rates between the substrates that cause it so much grief . . .

I do have one sampel that was weird, I mounted a 16"x24" with the Seal's Pro Mount Ultra and had no problems. It was a experimental piece and has sat in my cold (below freezing) / very hot (above 100F) garage for two years and it hasn't pealed at all . . . it was a fiber based paper too. I wonder if my pressure adhesive had just gone bad. I only had it for just over a year and I always keep it sealed in a plastic bag, but I wonder if my batch had become too old. So much to learn!

 

[Jim Miller]

My best adhesion was using 3M 77 Super spray. I mounted a 40"x60 piece and it's been holding for 6 months with no problems with a problematic paper. However I just hated the process of the spary - it so stinky and difficult to work with...

3M 77 is among the worst adhesives you could choose, and "stinky" may be the least of its issues. For more information that might save your art or your life, search the archives of this forum for terms like "spray adhesive".

 

[SMGlass]

Jim Miller! Ha! Thanks for your comment! It made me laugh, since I've only used the 3MM 77 - ONCE! And I thought, this can not be good. The bottom line, is I do NOT like spray adhesives and want to move to something that is not spray dependent. I figure there has to be a great solution. Alreay my post on this forum has been great and I'm super appreicative of all the thoughtful input - including yours. I have some supplies coming to experiment with the ACM and a heat press , as well as the Mounting and Laminating Handbook so hopefully soon, I'll be on a path that gives great, repeatable results utilizing a process that I enjoy. Thanks again for the comment.

 

[SMGlass]

Thanks for all the input! I'll chew on all of it and I'll do some testing and report back on what I find. And BTW, the heat issued hadn't even crossed my mind with the polyethylene core - doh! According to the spec sheet the ACM I'm using can only take 90C or a 190 F. So that limits a lot of the heat press options.

My best adhesion was using 3M 77 Super spray. I mounted a 40"x60 piece and it's been holding for 6 months with no problems with a problematic paper. However I just hated the process of the spary - it so stinky and difficult to work with. When I made that piece, I lighted scuffed the surface of the ACM by doing a light sanding block thinking the rougher surface would give more "grip" for the glue to bind to.

And I agree with you Lafontsee, I do think it has to do with the different expansion / contraction rates between the substrates that cause it so much grief . . .

I do have one sampel that was weird, I mounted a 16"x24" with the Seal's Pro Mount Ultra and had no problems. It was a experimental piece and has sat in my cold (below freezing) / very hot (above 100F) garage for two years and it hasn't pealed at all . . . it was a fiber based paper too. I wonder if my pressure adhesive had just gone bad. I only had it for just over a year and I always keep it sealed in a plastic bag, but I wonder if my batch had become too old. So much to learn!

Jim, do you have an acrylic glue that you would recommend?

 

[Jim Miller]

Jim, do you have an acrylic glue that you would recommend?

Any brand of acrylic gel medium would probably work, and you can buy it where acrylic painting supplies are sold. I suggest choosing a glossy gel with a high solids content (generally, cheaper isn't better). Use a smooth paint roller to apply a very thin, smooth coating to the substrate.

This is a water-borne polymer, so allow plenty of time for it to dry. It is water-soluble while wet, but when dry, it is like a permanent, thin layer of acrylic -- chemically stable, non-reactive, and inert.

 

[SMGlass]

Thanks for all the replies! I've had time to experiment with my substrate and it holds its form very well all the way to 210F and the polystyrene (the middle plastic layer) does not start melting / deforming until about ~230F. That said, what types of dry mount papers would people recommend? I'm mounting fiber based inkjet prints to the very, very smooth non-porous substrate. Since my original post, I've read the Mounting And Laminating Handbook (3rd Edition) and it was excellent. From reading, I need a dry mount tissue that is porous, permanent and temps not to exceed 210. I've read specs on-line and I'm leaning towards one of the following three products.

Question 1:
Any recommendations or thoughts to my below list or other products that would work well?
Considering these dry mount tissues:
- Drytac Trimount Heat-Activated Permanent Dry Mount Tissue
- D&K Ragmount Heat-Activated Tissue Adhesive
- Drytac Flobond Heat-Activated Mounting Adhesive

Question 2:
Also, does anyone know stores where you can buy just a few sample pieces to test with? Speciffically a larger sheet around 16"x24" . . . as that seems when the trouble begins.

Thanks and look forward to responses.

 

[SMGlass]

Any brand of acrylic gel medium would probably work, and you can buy it where acrylic painting supplies are sold. I suggest choosing a glossy gel with a high solids content (generally, cheaper isn't better). Use a smooth paint roller to apply a very thin, smooth coating to the substrate.

This is a water-borne polymer, so allow plenty of time for it to dry. It is water-soluble while wet, but when dry, it is like a permanent, thin layer of acrylic -- chemically stable, non-reactive, and inert.

Thanks Jim! This is a great idea. I'm going to currently hold the course with experimenting with dry mounting, but if it doesn't work, I'm going to look into this. I very much appreciate the thorough response!

 

[jeffasweet]

Thanks for all the replies! I've had time to experiment with my substrate and it holds its form very well all the way to 210F and the polystyrene (the middle plastic layer) does not start melting / deforming until about ~230F. That said, what types of dry mount papers would people recommend? I'm mounting fiber based inkjet prints to the very, very smooth non-porous substrate. Since my original post, I've read the Mounting And Laminating Handbook (3rd Edition) and it was excellent. From reading, I need a dry mount tissue that is porous, permanent and temps not to exceed 210. I've read specs on-line and I'm leaning towards one of the following three products.

Question 1:
Any recommendations or thoughts to my below list or other products that would work well?
Considering these dry mount tissues:
- Drytac Trimount Heat-Activated Permanent Dry Mount Tissue
- D&K Ragmount Heat-Activated Tissue Adhesive
- Drytac Flobond Heat-Activated Mounting Adhesive

Question 2:
Also, does anyone know stores where you can buy just a few sample pieces to test with? Speciffically a larger sheet around 16"x24" . . . as that seems when the trouble begins.

Thanks and look forward to responses.

Did you have any luck figuring out a dry mount process? I have a press and some DryTac Tri-mount I may try. I might also order the gel acrylic and try that. It was good to see your tests on melting points, I'll have to watch my press closely if I find a method that works.

I've been unable to source kooltack competition plate, so that hasn't been an option.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

Jeff

 

[Shooky]

Did you have any luck figuring out a dry mount process? I have a press and some DryTac Tri-mount I may try. I might also order the gel acrylic and try that. It was good to see your tests on melting points, I'll have to watch my press closely if I find a method that works.

I've been unable to source kooltack competition plate, so that hasn't been an option.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

Jeff

 

[Shooky]

I’ve used RubLev which is a archival adhesive specifically for mounting. It had some problems mounting my 24x36” fiber prints to acm panels. I scuffed the panels and had to work very hard with a brayer to get air bubbles out. some weren’t perfectly smoothed. I was hoping to try adhesive film but sounds like you’re having issues with that at larger size also

 

[Shayla]

I’ve used RubLev which is a archival adhesive specifically for mounting. It had some problems mounting my 24x36” fiber prints to acm panels. I scuffed the panels and had to work very hard with a brayer to get air bubbles out. some weren’t perfectly smoothed. I was hoping to try adhesive film but sounds like you’re having issues with that at larger size also

Just a heads-up that the product formerly called 'Fusion 4000' is now back on the market.
Chris Paschke is the North American source, at her wonderful DesignsInk site. (While there, check out her article library.)
It's an archival, heat-activated adhesive that can be pieced together. The rolls are 20.8" x 164', and price is in the link.
Sharing for whomever it might help. Once at the site, look top right, for 'Film 4000'.

Designs Ink

Original fine art, prints, note cards, notecards, cards, Paschke cards, greeting cards, Chris Paschke cards, chris pashke cards, licensed art, gift cards, abstract, sumi-e, collage, Asian, floral, calligraphy, encaustic, nudes, Designs Ink Float Frames, Sink Mount Frames, Article Archive and...

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