Stop damage to old oil painting?

[Fastfar]

I have a customer with an oil painting she painted in 1958. It is stretched well but was not varnished at the time she finished it. It is cracking and flaking in spots and the damage appears to be growing worse. She can't afford a conservator so she is asking me if I know of any way to preserve the work at this time. I don't, but I am throwing the question out to see if any of y'all have some ideas.

She is a nice older lady on a fixed income just attempting to save the art she did as a younger woman so her family doesn't just pitch it when they inherit...

 

[Dave]

Wow ...sounds like there was something wrong with the ground on the canvas or it has been stored in very humid conditions ...like a basement. Not varnishing a painting wouldn't result in the damage you are describing.

Usually it would cost nothing to have a conservator look at it. I would recommend going that route to determine if anything can be done to arrest the problem.

About the only suggestion other than getting advice from a conservator that personally inspects the painting would be to frame it with glazing to protect what is still there but even this would likely not stop the paint from flaking. That's caused by something else that is destroying the adhesion to the canvas.

Maybe Hugh will chime in here.

 

[JFeig]

Cracks, blistering, flaking are indications of water damage between the paint surface and the substrate. Sorry to be the messenger of sad news. That is a job for a conservator, not a framer.

 

[Prospero]

Sounds like she was a bit sparing with the oil in the mix. Happy dabblers (sorry, amateur artists) frequently use too much turps as it makes the paint flow better and easier to do fiddly bits. Unfortunately it makes the paint come unstuck after a few years drying. Does the painting look matt rather than semi-glossy? One (cheap) way to consolidate the flakey paint would be to give it a going over with a transperent medium. Liquin or something like. Work it well into the cracks and it may fix the whole thing together. It will also give the painting a tough protective coating. When it's dry it can be overpainted to touch up any missing bits. (preferably by the Lady)

 

[Audrey]

I do conservation work. wwwAudreybrownartstudio.com
I work pretty reasonable. You woud need to line it to reattach the paint. I think the best idea is to look around for different conservators. Feel free to give me a call and mabey I can help.(309) 788 3462 I feel for the woman. I know how important it can be to pass on something that means alot to you. Best Wishes

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Just curious if you can tell if the canvas has any sizing on it. Where the paint is missing are you able to see a gesso coat or is it just straight linen.

 

[Fastfar]

Thanks much for all of the replies...

Cracks, blistering, flaking are indications of water damage between the paint surface and the substrate. Sorry to be the messenger of sad news. That is a job for a conservator, not a framer.

I gotta agree with that, both the moisture causing damage and it not being a job for a framer...

Sounds like she was a bit sparing with the oil in the mix. Happy dabblers (sorry, amateur artists) frequently use too much turps as it makes the paint flow better and easier to do fiddly bits. Unfortunately it makes the paint come unstuck after a few years drying. Does the painting look matt rather than semi-glossy? One (cheap) way to consolidate the flakey paint would be to give it a going over with a transperent medium. Liquin or something like. Work it well into the cracks and it may fix the whole thing together. It will also give the painting a tough protective coating. When it's dry it can be overpainted to touch up any missing bits. (preferably by the Lady)

The paint does look matt, and while she is a decent artist in terms of composition and technique, it appears she was a bit heavy on the turp....curious about a substance to seal the surface and protect from further damage...and she has been known to touch up her art, including right at my counter

I do conservation work. wwwAudreybrownartstudio.com
I work pretty reasonable. You would need to line it to reattach the paint. I think the best idea is to look around for different conservators. Feel free to give me a call and maybe I can help.(309) 788 3462 I feel for the woman. I know how important it can be to pass on something that means a lot to you. Best Wishes

Thanks for the offer, I will ask her how far I should go with this...

Just curious if you can tell if the canvas has any sizing on it. Where the paint is missing are you able to see a gesso coat or is it just straight linen.

There is a layer of something under the final coat, reddish in the sky where a large-ish flake is missing...when I talked to her about how she prepped the canvas (it was 50 years ago) she didn't recall...

 

[Rebecca]

Your client is in the same position as many institutions are in - they have the art, but no money to conserve it.

In cases like these, good storage is always an excellent option. Stored flat (face up) in custom made box from coroplast or a/f foam board, labeled prominantly as to what is in it and which side is up with "fragile" stickers, that is not a bad alternative. Doing nothing is always an option, and not a bad one.

Rebecca

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Are you able to post a couple of photos? Because this piece is her own work you may be able to varnish the painting to help hold it together. It sounds like the paint is fairly loose so it would most likely need to be sprayed on very carefully. Also it would be safest to apply multiple light coatings.

A proper restoration would probably run into thousands of dollars and that sounds as if it is out of the question. The upside to this is that the work was done by the owner. In most cases like this you are toying with something that could potentially cause further harm.

The decision here lies solely with the customer. In most cases you would want to avoid this like the plague but like you said she is trying to preserve the memory and work of her youth.

 

[Rebecca]

I would disagree with Jeff as to the possible price a conservator would charge, because this is a blind second guess, two steps removed from the job. Only a conservator who has actually seen the piece, and done tests, could give an accurate estimate.

There is also no assurance that applying a surface varnish would fix the problem. It sounds like there are several layers involved, and getting an appropriate varnish/adhesive to flow under a single, let alone a multiple, layer is not a simple matter. (surface tension, molecular size etc.).

Doing nothing is often better than taking a risk and doing the wrong thing. Undoing others well meaning but ill advised work is a big part of what conservators do. That is why we specialize. I don't frame and most framers don't conserve.

Rebecca

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Doing nothing is often better than taking a risk and doing the wrong thing. Undoing others well meaning but ill advised work is a big part of what conservators do. That is why we specialize. I don't frame and most framers don't conserve.

Rebecca

Rebecca I agree with the doing nothing in most cases. This is a painting that was done by the owner in her youth. I spent two years working for a conservator who did framing. We undid many of these types of fixes on art that was hundreds of years old. The conservator I worked for in the early 80's required a $3,000 payment at the time the piece was dropped of for an estimate. When a customer chose to do nothing he refunded the amount in excess of the time required to properly assess the repairs. When the cutomer decided to go ahead with the work he refunded any amount above the cost of restoration. Most of the work done was well in excess of the initial payment.

The reason I asked about a photo was so those who are actively working as conservators could see the damage. We could post questions and answers for the rest of this womans life and she would still not enjoy the art that she is not enjoying today.

This is much like the argument that many framers make with customers about the use of only conservation materials on a Holly Hobby poster. By the time the credit card and finance charges are paid on the credit card the print has been thrown in the trash.

 

[Rebecca]

"The conservator I worked for in the early 80's required a $3,000 payment at the time the piece was dropped of for an estimate. When a customer chose to do nothing he refunded the amount in excess of the time required to properly assess the repairs. When the cutomer decided to go ahead with the work he refunded any amount above the cost of restoration. Most of the work done was well in excess of the initial payment."

That is odd practice, I never heard of anything like it. No wonder you have reservations about using a "professional"! Unfortunately, conservation is not yet an accredited profession; anyone can call themselves a conservator and do whatever they like. There is some measure of protection in using AIC as a referal agency as there is in asking for personal references and credentials.

I'm sorry you had such an unfortunate experience, I can see that it jaded your ideas about us!

Rebecca

 

[Audrey]

I agree with Rebecca, that seems excessive to me!!! I know painting conservators that are not that expensive and do not require that big of a deposit!!! I think you should see examples of the work they are capable of. I also think price can vary depending on the location of the conservator.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The artwork that we restored was worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and the majority of it was paid by insurance companies or wealthy individuals that were true collectors.

Now are you trying to say he was some sort of flim flam artist. Do you just assume that a museum would only refer to him because of some sort of elaborate scheme he had concocted. How did you come to the conclusion that he was not qualified to work on these pieces. Can't find him in your referal book. You won't because he has been deceased for 20 years now.

By telling this woman she can not enjoy her own piece of art which she created without paying you $350 for a repair is insane. Is $350 too low. Is $350 too high.

Should a consumer assume that only a PPFA member is competent to frame a picture. What is it that you are inferring by jumping to the conclusion that he was not the most qualified individual to work on 800 year old artwork.

Now go back and read where I asked if a photo could be posted so a conservator could see what we are talking about.

 

[Rebecca]

Jeff, I think we are at cross purposes, and it seems I misinterpreted what you wrote.

For the record, I believe that conservation treatment, which includes setting down flaking paint, should be left to conservators who are trained in this area. Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Saying that conservation treatment is "expensive" is like saying framing is expensive - the term is too vague to have any meaning. The price is determined by the amount of work required, and this is different for each piece.

Most conservators will look at a piece and give a general general condition summary and treatment options and estimates for free, or a modest fee, depending on how detailed a report the person wants.

I hope this helps clarify things.

Rebecca

 

[Jeff Rodier]

Sorry to have gone off on you Rebecca and for the record I believe 100% in the value of conservation and restoration.

I have witnessed and been fortunate enough to be part of the miracle of true restoration. I also know some items only warrant being salvaged for a time.