Stickers for framed art

nona powers

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 15, 1999
Posts
735
Loc
san diego
At the FACTS meetings in Atlanta, it was discussed that we need a sticker for the back of framed pictures that identifies what exactly is going on in the housing. what kind of mounting (hinging etc.) was used to attach the art to the backboard, were matboards buffered, is there Artcare in the housing, type of glazing, special instructions, name, date etc. Critique these and give me some of your ideas about what should be on such a label? A label like this would be very good for whoever has to take it apart down the road but it can't get too large and cumbersome.

Does anyone use such a label and if so, would you send me a copy of it?
Nona Powers
P.O. Box. 600025
San Diego, CA 92160-0025

Someone suggested it be a PDF file tied to an Avery Label that a framer could print out and use. What do you think?

Nona Powers, CPF
www.nonapowers.com
www.artfacts.org
 
Nona,
Many moons ago I made up a label that had boxes you could check off for various items that were used. For some reason I stopped using them, can't remember for the life of me why. It was and still is a great idea. A PDF file would make it easily accesible for all of us which in turn would hopefully encourage many more to use them.

Roxanne
Langley House Gallery
Proud member of: FACTS, PPFA and FramerSelect
 
Nona, Not to deride. We were thinking about that very idea and how cool it would look. I made one up and we did a mock-up frame job backing.

House label, CPF label, "What's inside" label, Cresent Label, Tru Vue concervation label, Tru Vue "AR" label, How-to-Hang label. Then because it was after 6 on a Friday night, and because it looked appropriate we added: STP, TruLine, BTW shocks, Valvoline, Home Depot, SlickTire, WintersTransmission, Nitro2, OHSU, NeurTech, NOMEX, Gatoraide . . . well, you get the picture.

We're picture framers not NASCAR.

But go ahead. Great idea.

baer
 
How about having it as a function of the POS software, or a third party program that reads it from the existing order in the POS software's database?

It could then print the info on the avery printer label. (complete with order #, date, customer name, framer, etc) The info is already there in the database.
 
Gee Mike, sounds good but I don't really know what you said. My fault, I'm sure. You want it on the POS in the frame shops? How could that happen? Contact all POS or have the framers insert it? I want it available to everyone at all times, that's why I thought the download would work, but hey, I'm open to anything that would work.

baer, I agree, sometimes the backs of my frames do look like a nascar, but the information we need is not all there. When I have to take apart something, just having a date would be nice so I know how long it's been framed but especially how is the art attached to the back or mount board. Some of the other stickers could be incorporated into this sticker.

A check off label would be very nice, what would it include?

To make it even more comlicated, wouldn't you like a sticker that says you support Fine Art Care and Treatment Standards with a web site address that the customer can go to to know what that means and find your name among the supporters?

Nona Powers, CPF
www.nonapowers.com
www.artfacts.org
 
I sort of do what Mike is suggesting and it solves Baer's problem, too. (One of them, at least. ;) )

I print labels one-at-a-time for each frame with a description of the frame, the glazing, the mats, the mounting and any special instructions. It also has my name, my shop's name and all the contact information.

This label replaces all of the other labels that used to cover my dust cover.

Nona, I'll mail you a sample sheet with six labels (I use a 6-up Avery labels) unless I can figure out how to attach one to an email.
 
Hi

What I was suggesting is to do what Ron is doing, but that it can be automated to minimize the labor involved.

All this info already "lives" in our POS systems, so it's just a matter of extracting it onto a label. This could be something the POS vendors could add, or someone could make an external program that makes everyone happy. It could a) let you enter it manually and print them in a standard format, b) go out and grab the info from various pos systems, either from their database files or from files that they have been set up to export. Most POS systems have the ability to export transaction logs on a daily basis.

I'm just throwing it on the (design?) table as a possible idea.

Mike
 
There are long round-about ways to export the information from our POS system into an Excel file that could then be sorted, rearranged, deleted, restored, etc. to print a label with the types of glazing, backing, mats, hinging, etc. A computer guru could do it in minutes. I'm still trying to figure it out.
 
I think this is a thing that definetly needs adressing and the POS print out sounds very good. The only problem I can see is are we sure that the clientel will understand what each check point means?
While it is very good to point out that there is a LOT going on UNSEEN inside a frame ,do normal customers really know what each product does for their work? Furthermore if they don't isn't the NASCAR analogy even more appropiate?
Maybe what we also need to consider is a phamplet that explains the check points good points in a bit more detail to be handed out with the finished work,or at least for a while until we can educate themas well as ourselves?
What I mean is if we in the industry need a standardisation of terms and products why do we assume that the public understands what a bunch of check points mean?I have seen and used the tags for CC glass only to see a blank look when the consumer looks at what looks like any other glass.This doesn't even begin to mention things they can't see from the exterior.
BUDDY
 
Buddy, it appears to me that this label isn't for the customer, but any framer who might take the frame apart in the future.

All it will do for the customer is look cool.

A phamplet for the customer is a great idea for educating them, and some of them will actually read it. But it won't help the next framer because by that time the phamplet will be long gone.

Betty
 
I have several labels that I use. They separately cover the care of:

custom gilded moulding finishes
hinges -(do not tip on side)
UV filtering glass
using 2 hangers
etc

I will fax a sheet of all of them separately.

Jerry
 
I made up a "label" like that. But I put it under the dust cover.

My shop label and "UV glass label" go on the outside, but everything you are referring to goes under the dustcover.

That way, it's all there for any framer to find, but it's not "messing up" the back of the frame.

Also, I can just use a laser printer and a piece of tape to stick it to the back of the filler board. So I don't have to buy labels.

When something comes back to me, whether mine or soemone elses, it almost always has to be opened for some reason. In almost all cases I wouldn't let the customer out without opening it in front of them. Then, I would find the slip.

Cheap, easy, and accomplishes the job I think.
 
I passed the suggestion along to the folks at LifeSaver, for their opinion/suggestions/concerns.
 
I do what Cliff does...put the information on glazing, mat colors, moulding, etc. under the dustcover. Many times I've had to search far and wide to match someones former frame job done by someone else. I personally have work order copies going back 50 years to refer to for jobs we did ourselves. All I need is the order number from the back of the frame.

Dave Makielski
 
I don’t see the need for such a detailed sticker.

On the back of each frame package, we attach a small sticker (1/2” x 7/8”) with the “work order” number on it. The customer is given a copy of the actual work order which specifies in detail (and probably much more specifically than could comfortably be placed on a sticker) the moulding #, mat board #, type of backing, type of glazing, and method of mounting as well as any other pertinent data or requirements.

We keep a copy; the customer gets a copy.

We have had several calls from other out of state framers who have called because of our logo sticker. Once they give us the work order number, we can tell 'em exactly what went on with the framing.

I believe that a sticker such as that which has been suggested, is redundant.
 
Ron

I like your sticker idea. Is there any way you could post a picture of it? EMail one to me? Fax it if you like. 207-985-6655 is my fax number, Thanks!

Cliff

I like that you put it under the dust cover. I've opened so many old frames and the mat colors are so faded it is impossible to "match". The customer doesn't "need" the info to enjoy the picture and it sure makes my life easier as a "re-framer". It also helps with the Nascar look.

Nona

I'd be willing to put a tag line on my sticker, if you paid me to :D . That is why the Nascars look so garish, they're subsidized, advertised to death.
 
As far as printing one sticker at a time, DYMO printers is the only way to go. It is so much faster and less waste in materials than the old laser or ink jet Avery labels.

I designed a sticker with multiple check boxes for glass, backing, etc that I used briefly. My customers could care less. They do however like the TruVue stating UV protection. I think a work order number somewhere on the back will suffice for any shops that are still in business.
 
I was thinking about how important this would be for the new Artcare Restore Foamboard. When I open packages that are drymounted I simply explain how some moron drymounted their college diploma. I have never offered to “unmount” the item.

It looks like we can now attempt reversing the drymounting however my sample board doesn’t seem to have any identifying marks indicating that. I think when I start using this I will identify the board in some manner so that some other framer don’t say “Im sorry ma’am but some moron drymounted it.” I might just put a handwritten note in there that says: “Dear fellow framer, I am not a moron and Nona Powers said I can use this board and its reversible.”

You think that will work?
 
Housekeeping Post:
I was thinking of a label that would provide history or provenance. What is in the housing in terms of materials that would affect the art, how was it handled, how long has it been framed. The reference number and shop name would provide the other information. The info is not for customers as much as for whoever is taking the housing apart.

I should not have said that Artcare should be on the label, I should have said additives such as zeolites or buffering. A brand name should never be used with a FACTS product. I apologize.

Using the support FACTS label, I think, should be reserved for people who actually support FACTS financially. They are the ones who care enough to keep it alive for everyone.

I might get into trouble here but I don’t want you to misunderstand and I would be irresponsible if I don’t post this. I am an education consultant for Nielsen Bainbridge but I did not say you can use restore and it works. It looks like it's a great product and can solve a lot of problems for framers but it still comes down to each individual job. I hope FACTS can set a standard that restore can pass and then yes, be considered safe for preservation framing, as I said it looks great so far, BUT, you need to understand every product you use and understand how it will behave with whatever you are trying to mount. Right now I would test and really think through what I need to do and see if Restore can help solve the problem. Artist’s can definitely use it freely; it’s their art but you as a framer would be libel if you use it incorrectly. I’ve asked Miles, product manager for Bainbridge to provide specification sheets to explain the product so we can make intelligent decisions. Unfortunately it would give out a lot of proprietary information and it might not be as extensive as we would like but I do think they will give us more than we have so far. I know Bainbridge is a company with integrity, I’ve dealt with them long enough to have faith in that, BUT, no product should ever just be accepted on the say so of a company. We need more information. That’s why FACTS is so important.


It would be very helpful to have a label that says Restore has been used however and what do you know, Bainbridge has one that comes with the order, which explains how to restore the art.

OK, now everyone who wants to shoot me can. Might even be NB, but I had to, as FACTS Steering Committee Chair post the preceding.

Nona Powers, CPF
www.nonapowers.com
www.artfacts.org
 
I should have also said that a pamphlet is being worked on by the marketing committee and will be forthcoming. I hope by Las Vegas, but who knows. It will cover what FACTS is, briefly, how to handle the art and how to support FACTS, website included.

Nona
 
Of coarse I was just kidding about that Nona but your response has prompted me with this question.

How accountable are companies when it comes to the products they sell?

If Bainbridge says (and they do) “Artcare ™ Restore ™ is an archival heat-activated foamboard that allows art to be reversed to its pre-mounting condition,” why do I have to question that?

How would I question that? I’m not a scientist. I can’t frame something and test it 20 years from now to decide if it’s safe. Now I’m not talking about mounting anything exotic. If their claims are accurate, then there should be no problem whatsoever mounting a diploma to this stuff and removing it later. RIGHT?

If not, how is it my fault? I didn’t make or invent the stuff. When is it just enough to say “I’ve seen it work and I believe what THEY TELL ME.” To me the liability is on the shoulders of the ones making, testing, and selling the product.

I’m not just referring to Artcare ™ Restore ™ but to every company who makes the claims. Crescent has a “lifetime warranty” program when you use their Ragmat ®. Can’t I accept their claims as accurate?

How many tapes out there claim to be “reversible”? We know they are not and don’t use them as they say we can. So why don’t we, once and for all, put the burden on their back by making them responsible for what they say. Why do framers have to carry this burden?

What am I missing? Thanks.
 
WOW Jay, you really have put a lot of thought into this.


I feel the way you do, however, if I have heard this once I've heard it a thousand times by suppliers and others in our industry, "acid free is acid free". I don't currently follow that statement to be true. You can test the backing paper of a decorative mat board from any of the big manufacturers and get a near pH neutral reading if the board is not very old, but does that mean it is acid free because they added enough calcium carbonate in the form of lime to balance the scale?

I guess it has become our responsibility because we are at the end of the road. When we put the package together we make the final decision.
 
If McDonald's tells you their fries are now good for you, do you take their word for it? No, you eat McDonald's fries three-times-a-day for a year and then have your blood pressure and cholesterol checked against previous numbers.

I use some Epson and HP photo papers that the manufacturers claim resist fading for 150 and 75 years respectively. I am skeptical. But the Wilhelm Institute does independent accelerated fade tests and the results seem to coincide with claims.

Maybe we can't know for sure what will happen with this new mount board in 20 years, but a number of framers - unrelated to Bainbridge - are running their own systematic tests and sharing their findings.

Some of them are Grumblers.

If you are the cautious sort, you may say, "Sounds good, but it's yet unproven" and use the product with extreme caution.

But some items that have sentimental value (e.g. newspaper clippings and rolled-up or creased certificates) just beg to be dry-mounted and the possibility of doing that more "conservatively" is very compelling.

BTW, I started to scan and post a sample sheet of the labels I use when I realized there are a number of errors, such as listing Premium Clear glass when I actually used Conservation Clear (and then talking about 97% UV-blocking.)

Back to the drawing board.
 
Although I think we all try to avoid forcing hour-long classes on our customers, have you ever told a customer "this glass blocks 97% of UV Rays". Be honest. You've said that!

What if it only blocks 80%. Is that your fault? Are you liable? I don't know how to accurately test UV blocking glass, pH in mats, color fastness in fabrics, or reversibility of drymounting boards. To tell you the truth I don't care to learn. I'm perfectly comfortable mixing a little common sense with claims from reputable companies. I throw caution to the wind and move on with reckless abandon.

McDonalds is reputable. Common sense tells me that the fries might not be “healthy” unless you’re comparing them to apple pies. Boy those are one nuclear hot pocket of heaven aren’t they?
 
That's why we need FACTS, although - to be perfectly honest - FACTS needs a whole lot more operating capital to be able to actually support any independent product testing, and a bigger share of the funding needs to come from the framers instead of the manufacturers.

The reason I mentioned McDonald's fries is because of a piece I just saw about some trouble they are in. It seems they made a commitment a couple of years ago to make their fries "healthier" by eliminating some of the particular fats used to fry them. They ran ads about this but there has apparently been very little progress in the right direction.
 
Sometimes I really like Ron's approach to framing - "life"....

Perhaps we only need one sticker that states,

<center><font size=3>This frame put together with only Good Stuff!</font size></center>

:D John :D
 
I like that, John, but if you and I had used such a label when we started, those frames would still contain some corrugated, some flawboard, maybe some masking tape and almost certainly regular glass. There might be an avocado green mat. That WAS the good stuff in 1977.

No hot glue or duct tape, though (speaking only for myself, of course.)

I caught myself telling a good and loyal customer about Zeolites yesterday and she stopped me about half-way through my little speech by putting her hand up and saying, "I trust you."
 
I heard yesterday in a political debate (gag a maggot); "People don't care how much you know, they just want to know you care."

It was true for you anyway huh Ron?
 
Jay, you are wonderful. You have articulated exactly why FACTS is so important to framers and Ron is right, FACTS needs money to operate and run tests, but mostly it needs framers to show they care about standards otherwise manufactures really feel that framers don’t care and don’t need to know. The manufactures, for the large part, just want to sell their products, not cheat framers, but sometimes they leave things out or twist things or will make misleading statements. One manufacturer for instance advertised that they used no glue in the manufacture of foamboard, not telling the reader that no company does, it’s a heat fusing process. The company is a good company, just trying to find a way to make their product sound better than others. There was an archival suede company, and everyone assumed because the title said archival it must be so. Some suede’s might meet standards for preservation framing but certainly not all due to dyes, sizing, glues, and substrate make-up. The whole acid free fiasco is a prime example. Yes, the buffering does make a regular mat board acid free but because the lignin is still in the board, it will not stay acid free and will eventually hurt the art next to it. I know for a fact that Bainbridge questioned whether to come out with this restore product because it is basically a firm no no to mount or alter artwork, even though the glue or paste on the board does come off the art. According to their tests and knowledge it does exactly what it says it will do. If you use it and it ruins the piece will they be liable or will you? Good question. A FACTS committee right now is working on foamboard to set a standard for use in preservation framing that foamboard will have to meet to be used, it is working on a standard for tapes and adhesives, we already have a standard for mat and mountboards but if you mount something that is sensitive to heat and will turn black is it Bainbridge’s fault? If you mount a very old, fine tissue piece and it tears when you are un-mounting it, again is it the manufactures fault or yours for using it on that particular piece? What FACTS can do is provide information. I think Bainbridge needs a specification sheet on this product so we can make the decisions we have to make to use it, but it will only help, not make the decision for us.

I do know that the more I know, the better off I am facing the kinds of challenges I have to face at the design counter every day. Like you I am not a scientist nor want to be. As consumers we can demand that we get accurate information from manufactures and we can support FACTS monetarily, physically by volunteering when asked and verbally when ever possible. We have to show we have a stake in this process or we basically are the losers.

End of rant, but thanks Jay for asking the questions. You have provided a much needed service just by asking them. Hopefully my rant answered some questions but mostly illustrated that we need FACTS, the Grumble, HH and more framers like you and others who have posted here.

Nona Powers, CPF
www.nonapowers.com
www.artfacts.org
 
I received a label design from Jerry and it is very helpful. Any more out there someone uses they can send me or more ideas on what such labels could say?
 
A full disclaimer is the best way to go. Cover it all. For Example...

This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your cancelled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time offer, call now to insure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only in well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flame. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Decision of judges is final.

This supersedes all previous notices.
 
but they'd have to be listed with little boxes next to them so we could check off what is appropriate. It WOULD fit on an 8 1/2 x 11, wouldn't it? hehehehe
 
Nona,
I don't remember which FACTS mtg. y'all were talking about the sticker, (I think it was the class Sunday afternoon?) but I do remember thinking,"Hey, they had this conversation recently on the G." The regulars discussed what they disclose about the framing package, and how some have incorporated it into a sticker. Some were incredibly thorough.

It would be cool of FACTS to have their very own, with logo, that had boxes to check off, (like Ellen said) and maybe some blanks for specifics on things like preservation glass, we could write, ConClear, or Museum, etc. Nothing as wordy as this post even, just bullet form and maybe two blank lines at the bottom to sign and date. The whole Keep It Simple idea...

Seems like it would consolidate all that info. into one sticker, with the FACTS website at the very bottom, for curious customers that want to know. I bet only 1 in 100 would look it up, but how cool to have a point of reference, and the reinforcement that yes, their framer has a clue about such things. Even if, as Jay mentioned, you don't give them the whole spiel at the design counter, they can see that you were actually paying attention and thinking beyond the scope of mat and frame choice. It is comforting as a customer to know their framer is educated in such things, even if they don't want those details every time they come in and frame something.

Disclaimer: Yes, we have already covered this, and no, it is not an original idea. Also note that I, like the rest of you, are very aware that it is simply not necessary to frame absolutely everything preservation.


Jara
 
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