Sources for Backroom tables/cabinets/et al

cogden

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Posts
7
I'm doing the leg work for a group of Fine Art, Limited Edition Pro Landscape Photographers.

We're creating very low volume, but professional production spaces to frame our fine art photos and/or gallery wrapped canvases.

I've been unsuccessful in finding any pre-made backroom tables/cabinets, etc. I even went so far as to talk with our largest Kinko's who has some nice

They don't have to be super-rugged (ie, low volume with ourselves doing the work), but they DO have to be sized to support 32x40 to 40x60 museum grade mat/foamcore/et al. (we all print 16x24 visible images up to full 40x60s).

Does anyone have any good sources (other than custom cabinet makers) for:
production mat cutting/fitting table(s), finished goods shelves, etc.?

cheers,
-c
 
Try these folks: www.cundyscreations.com

but with shipping and such a local guy probably will be less expensive. These tables are not rocket science.

PPF bookstore also has a book by V.Kistler on building frame shop fixtures.
Kistler%20Pictures%20020.jpg

Building plans for 25 projects. Build:
  • Worktables
  • Tables for mat cutters
  • Dry mount presses
  • Tool holders
  • Frame rack
  • Frame jack
  • Support for length moulding
  • Spool wire box
  • Roll storage
  • Bin cart
  • Tables
  • Tops
  • Cabinets
  • Clamps
  • Storage for mats, moulding & customer’s goods and more!
64 pages 8-1/2 x 11
 
They don't have to be super-rugged (ie, low volume with ourselves doing the work), but they DO have to be sized to support 32x40 to 40x60 museum grade mat/foamcore/et al. (we all print 16x24 visible images up to full 40x60s).
cheers,
-c

Oh, I'm gonna just hate myself for asking this but, .................... What would be the difference in sizing the tables to support 32x40 to 40x60 museum grade as opposed to 32x40 to 40x60 any other grade of mat or foam core??? It may just be me but it sounded like the size had more to do with the grade of the materials than it did the size.:shrug:

Oh, welcome to the Grumble. You're gonna like it here!
 
PPF bookstore also has a book by V.Kistler on building frame shop fixtures.

In the interest of credit where credit is due, I believe the author of that particular book is Paul MacFarland, though it is published by V. Kistler's company. Can't tell from the image.

I just spent the better part of the weekend building some that my husband and I designed together. It was cost effective, and I'm confident they're solidly built but they aren't as attractive as what Cundy's Creations builds.

It seems that there has been a flurry of listings of shops and shop contents for sale. Check Craig's List for your area.
 
I remember that back several years ago someone had some really nice work tables for sale. I can't remember if it was Crescent Cardboard that actually sold them or if I was just talking to the guys from Crescent about how sexy they were. (the tables) The mat cutters fit on the end and could hinge down out of the way. One of them had a paper cutter built in, a Dahle I think. They had attachments for holding mounting tissues and rolls of paper. They had tape dispensers swinging about above the table at a pleasing height. They had metal rod separators under the table tops for storing matboard. It was like looking at framer porn. Maybe they still have them, if they ever sold them. Anybody remember this?








also: hehehehe... gallery wraps
 
Megan, you are correct the book is by Paul, just published by Vivian.


I do think anyone that has the aptitude for framing as the ability to build these fixtures themselves, just a matter as to if you have the proper tools and time/motivation.
 
I just recently built three 4x8 tables out of plywood. Home Despot had a sale on cabinet grade 3/4 plywood, and they look fabulous and only cost about $75 each. Each table uses a little less than 3 sheets

Looking at them edge on, the basic layout is like an H.

Your top is a full 4x8 sheet.
2 Sides are cut 38x36
1 Bottom shelf is cut 38x86
4 Bottom shelf supports are cut 38x5
2 table top length brace supports are cut 86x5
2 triangle table top brace supports are cut 14x14
2 table top horizontal supports are cut 36.5x5

Construction is easier with a pneumatic nail gun, wood screws and glue. Have the place you buy the wood from cut your sides, and the shelf. You will have to cut the braces with a table saw or circular saw. Sand edges smooth after construction, apply a finish like amber shellac, apply felt pads on bottom so you can move them more easily, screw two 72" rulers to each side edge, and lay 32x40 paper matboard down. Good to go...
 
All of my workshop tables were constructed from 1/2" particle board, with 3/4" particle board tops. Some of the boards have a durable white coating on both sides. All of them are rock-solid and have plenty of storage space beneath.

The technology is simple, really. They assemble like a puzzle. Here are instructions for a simple design:

1. Cut top & bottom sheets to the table size

2. Add 1x2 firring strips around the perimeter of the bottom sheet, and across the width of the table about 12" apart. These will contact the floor and keep a small air space under the table. Leave some gaps between the boards, to allow slight air circulation under the table.

3. Fit the top & bottom sheets with slats of 1/2" particle board about 8" wide x table length. Arrange the slats in a mirror-image pattern and fasten them by screws to the top of the bottom sheet, and the underside of the top sheet, precisely 9/16" apart. These will provide slots 1/2" deep x 9/16" wide, into which you will slide vertical supports.

4. Arrange the pattern of slats, to include at least two vertical supports that are perpendicular to the rest. An "H" pattern works to provide vertical support in all four directions. The perpendicular vertical supports must be fastened to their mating supports by angle brackets (I used cut-to-length 1-1/2" aluminum angle stock) by screws.

5. Have a local lumber company cut the sheets of particle board to your specifications and deliver the pieces, so you can simply assemble them on site.

As soon as my previous images have been deleted from the forum, I can post a few photos -- It seems my limit has been reached.
 
I'm doing the leg work for a group of Fine Art, Limited Edition Pro Landscape Photographers.

That sure is a bunch of adjectives.

I think I will adopt the title of "Fine Art, Limited Edition Pro Picture Framer".

It has a certian panache to it doen't ya think?

Carry on.
 
I remember that back several years ago someone had some really nice work tables for sale. I can't remember if it was Crescent Cardboard that actually sold them or if I was just talking to the guys from Crescent about how sexy they were. (the tables) The mat cutters fit on the end and could hinge down out of the way. One of them had a paper cutter built in, a Dahle I think. They had attachments for holding mounting tissues and rolls of paper. They had tape dispensers swinging about above the table at a pleasing height. They had metal rod separators under the table tops for storing matboard. It was like looking at framer porn. Maybe they still have them, if they ever sold them. Anybody remember this?

I remember these. I wanted them when they came out but didn't have the space or $$ (they were expensive). Now that I recently opened a new store, I went looking for them but they aren't available anymore, unless you can find a used one. Go figure...
 
Here is the tables I use...

http://www.keencut.co.uk/proteus/proteus.htm

The product line is sold through a company in Florida. I can get you the contact info if you need it.

The best part is, they are light, very very strong and you can knock them back down in short time if/when the times comes to move.

Every built table I have ever had has been a bear to move.
 
I use 3/4" particle board for tops.

I love my tables. I also have two of them stacked for matboard storage.

I have one last 'homemade' work table that I still do fittings on. I will be replacing it soon.

It is amazing how strong these tables are to be so lite.

I do not have one of the sheet cutters. I looked at one in Atlanta several years ago and loved it.
 
That sure is a bunch of adjectives. I think I will adopt the title of "Fine Art, Limited Edition Pro Picture Framer". It has a certian panache to it doen't ya think? Carry on.

apologies if it came across wrong -not trying to sound high falutin' - just trying to be specific as to what our niche needs are (ie, we're not general purpose framers needing to worry about 3D lightboxes, stocking every mat color under the sun, etc.).
 
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Many thanks - got the book - the only one I could find on the subject (plus the similar book on "Frame Shop Plans" - which is just a tease in it's lack of detail).

The work tables are indeed straight forward but then it opens the question about surface(s) to not scratch black wood mouldings (which ding when looking at them) but still be cleanable/not trap scratchy fragments, et al.

The trickier ones are large wall units to store raw materials and finished goods.

Found some great units at the local kinkos that look mass-produced (translated, sized correctly, modular, and presumably less expensive). They fit together with barrel locks, etc. The challenge is now working through Kinko's bureaucracy to find where they get them.

I also have a call into Cundy's; if end up being too expensive, if nothing else they are a source of ideas!

THANKS!
 
Oh, I'm gonna just hate myself for asking this but, .................... What would be the difference in sizing the tables to support 32x40 to 40x60 museum grade as opposed to 32x40 to 40x60 any other grade of mat or foam core??? It may just be me but it sounded like the size had more to do with the grade of the materials than it did the size.:shrug:

Agreed that size is size. The comment about the grade was one, to give more background info around our specialized needs and two, that the cost of the materials is really high, so want to be extra sure that we don't ding/mangle/munch the stuff if we can help -- maybe it doesn't make a difference, but I've seen some backroom setups of just 2x4's and somewhat splintery materials, etc. and am thinking that if our Finished Goods and Material storage is finished to a higher grade (yeah, I know, more expensive) that it would likely be worth it from saved material waste. As well, if clients do come by, it would project a "higher quality in all we do" image ("everything communicates").
 
A slip sheet of paper matboard will keep things from being dinged just fine - cheap, replaceable, smooth, and it comes in a variety of festive colors!

It is amazing how good cabinet grade plywood can look - they make cabinets out of it ya know. :P
 
Agreed that size is size. The comment about the grade was one, to give more background info around our specialized needs and two, that the cost of the materials is really high, so want to be extra sure that we don't ding/mangle/munch the stuff if we can help -- maybe it doesn't make a difference, but I've seen some backroom setups of just 2x4's and somewhat splintery materials, etc. and am thinking that if our Finished Goods and Material storage is finished to a higher grade (yeah, I know, more expensive) that it would likely be worth it from saved material waste. As well, if clients do come by, it would project a "higher quality in all we do" image ("everything communicates").

OK, now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. I wondered what your reasoning was for digging for better ideas for benches and I see that you have the same outlook I had for the appearances of your work areas. I want to show you one of the very first projects I took on when I opened my first frameshop back in the late 80's. I too searched around and even got bids from professional cabinet makers to build some benches that would have the capabilities that I needed and also looked good. I got bids that started around the $5000 range and went up from there for 4 benches and that didn't count the customer counter that I also needed.

So I built my own.

I bought a half pallet of Baltic birch 12 ply plywood, some rough sawn red oak, and some sycamore for drawer carcases and linings along with the necessary hardware and fittings. I am not a cabinet maker, just a lifelong woodworking hobbyist so I had no professional background to fall back on, just my gut feeling about how I wanted the benches to look and some basic joinery practices that I used for other wood projects that I built. I feel that anyone who is capable of basic joinery skills, does revelant reading and studying of what he wants to do, and uses some common sense, can do just what I did when faced with a choice of paying someone else 2 states away over $5000 and not know until all was finished what he was getting or do it himself and make the benches exactly the way he wants them.

choptable1.jpg


This is a photo of my cutting room with the Phaedra chop table on the left, the joining table at the rear, and part of my moulding storage rack on the right which I built from some 2x4's, 1x6's, and a few wooden closet poles cut into lengths.

choptable2.jpg


Closeup of the chop table with storage underneath for spare blades and other hand tools that I use in the frameshop. Storage was of paramount importance in designing and building these benches.

fittingtable.jpg


Closeup of the joining table with a Stanley miter vise in the corner and set down so as to allow the top of the bench to support the moulding when using the vise. There are drawers for storing V-nails, a Barton angle guide book, and other small tools and putties and pastes used to touch up or fill nail holes and imperfections. Adjustable shelving on both sides allow for storing shorts of moulding that I chose to keep for smaller frames and other projects that I built later on.

joiningbench2.jpg


The other side of the joining bench showing the drawers and storage shelves. If you are concerned as I was about finished looks of your benches and utilizing every square inch of space to its fullest, you may get some ideas from these photos.

mattable1.jpg


Here is one end of my mat table. I fit in non-adjustable shelves and offset the table top by the thickness of the mat cutter bed so that the mats would be flat on the table top when in the cutter. I also covered the top with indoor outdoor carpet to pad the table top and provide a soft working surface that didn't abrade the components of the frame package. With carpet you have to be aware of keeping staples and such off of the carpet so that they don't become embedded in the fibers but I wanted the carpet and I set my mind to keeping it as clean as I could.

mattable2.jpg


Opposite end of mat table showing storage shelves and dust cover paper. If I had it to do over again, I probably would have built this end solid and allowed for a number of paper roll dispensers on the end for dust covers and plastic bags.

glassbench.jpg


My glass storage bench, which also was home for my oval cutter and my shrink wrap machine. Pretty straight forward, I stocked a number of PC sizes and a few CC sizes along with some plexi.

custcounterfront.jpg


I had some supplies and wood left over and, by coincidence, got a very good deal on a custom built 12' long formica counter top that was built with the wrong color formica. It was perfect for me as it was a beige combination so I bought it and built a customer counter out of it. I ripped off the back splash and front rollover and trimmed the edges with 2" oak strips all around. I covered the front with indoor outdoor carpeting and used the remaining baltic birch plywood for the adjustable shelves. It was the perfect end to a very satisfying wood project and the solution to a serious need for my shop.

custcounterback.jpg


Backside of the customer counter showing the adjustable shelving. I simply installed a strip of oak on the edges of each birch plywood shelf and also the partitions to give it a finished look. The difference in a bare plywood edge and a nice finished solid wood edge is remarkable and so easy to make happen.

The tops of most of the benches were made 48" wide by whatever length I felt I needed for that bench. They are all 39" tall which I determined was the optimum height that I could work on comfortably and they all had a toe space that I made from 2x4's so I could work close to the benches without kicking the edges of whatever was stored in them. The ingenious thing about the benches was I could fit them all through a 3/0 exterior door without any trouble! The tops come off and the toe space platforms are removeable and, when you turn the benches on their sides, they slide right through most exterior doors. We had to remove one door at the present gallery where I work to fit them through the opening but the commercial door simply didn't swing outward and out of the opening far enough but that was the only hitch in the 4 moves I had to make with these benches.

And, yes, they are still in service today!! I have all of them but my chop saw table here in Florida and use them daily. They are as sturdy and space efficient as ever and I wouldn't trade them for any commercial bench on the market today. Again, I was not overly skilled in building cabinets or benches, but, if you know the basics of carcass construction and have a fair amount of tools to make dimensioning and assembling of the benches easy, you can build these yourself and probably do a better job than I did almost 20 years ago! All it takes is a need for work benches and lack of money to pay someone else 3 or 4 times the cost of materials to build them for you. The rest is easy! :thumbsup:

i apologize for the lengthy post but I feel that this is a very important outlay of money for the beginning framer. Any ideas that they can use to make their own benches and save all that money is time and space well spent in my opinion.
 
YES! These two posts are more articulate than I was. In the example of work tables, certainly one can easily get a sturdy table or make a simple one of 2x4's and plywood.

My hope was that someone sold custom-purpose tables and materials/finished goods storage that are specifically targetted (ie, customized to make processes faster and better for framing/stretching/finishing/storage/etc.) and reflect the experience of a successful craftsman.

For instance, this sounds sensible and excellent:

The mat cutters fit on the end and could hinge down out of the way. One of them had a paper cutter built in, a Dahle I think. They had attachments for holding mounting tissues and rolls of paper. They had tape dispensers swinging about above the table at a pleasing height. They had metal rod separators under the table tops for storing matboard.

as does:
I see that you have the same outlook I had for the appearances of your work areas.

Closeup of the chop table with storage underneath for spare blades and other hand tools that I use in the frameshop. Storage was of paramount importance in designing and building these benches... offset mat table top by the thickness of the mat cutter bed so that the mats would be flat on the table top when in the cutter... There are drawers for storing V-nails, a Barton angle guide book, and other small tools and putties and pastes used to touch up or fill nail holes and imperfections. Adjustable shelving on both sides allow for storing shorts of moulding that I chose to keep for smaller frames and other projects that I built later on. The other side of the joining bench showing the drawers and storage shelves. If you are concerned as I was about finished looks of your benches and utilizing every square inch of space to its fullest, you may get some ideas from these photos. [YES! Thanks!]

If I had it to do over again, [exactly the kind of help from the voice of experience I was hoping to get- thanks! I probably would have built this end solid and allowed for a number of paper roll dispensers on the end for dust covers and plastic bags.

i apologize for the lengthy post but I feel that this is a very important outlay of money for the beginning framer.

Thank you all for your generosity and sharing!!!!

Now if I can just find some commercially built versions of the above I'll be in business!


FWIW, thanks again to the Grumble - I've also found about Decor Atlanta and have configured another trip to allow me to attend Friday (unfortunately I have to be in Chicago Saturday to teach a Lightroom/Photoshop class for Popular Photography Magazine so won't be able to attend Saturday's dinner).

Maybe there will be a vendor there with

I signed up for the "Backroom Layout for Production" by William Parker. Hopefully he'll have some vendor sources (or maybe there will be a show vendor) for affordable items professionally made with the planning and "extras" that come from framing experience!

Thanks again for the all ideas and photos - if anyone has any more hilighting custom-features, it'd be great!
 
Wow, Framerguy, those are wonderful workspaces. Thank you for sharing. I also built my own mat cutter table with matboard storage underneath, but I won't embarrass myself by posting pictures here :-) My current location has a very small room for my framing equipment, so I had to maximize space by not only building in the matboard storage, but the whole table (cabinet really) is on lockable casters. This allows my to push the table against the wall when not in use, and pull it out when cutting mats. As I only frame items for the store or custom frame the prints we sell, it works. If I had to take in customer's work and frame "full time", I'd have to get a bigger place for sure.
 
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