So I have the friend who . . .

Create a Post
Marc Lizer

Marc Lizer

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 28, 1999
Posts
1,545
Loc
North Hollywood, CA
Yeah right!

Noooooooo. Reeeeeeeeeeeeealy. I do.


I do! I do!

So anyways, he had a customer who he did some stretching for. And the customer balked a bit.

And he wanted to check a "fair" price for what he did.

He gave me a call as the word canvas is in my name, although that is maybe about 3% of what we do.

I gave him an estimation of what I would have done on it.

I would like to give y'all the specs and get your opin's

Both are customers (vacation) art.
One was 23 x 27 (I am rounding)
and the other was: 25 x 35 (again, this is an or so number. both canvases were with assorted 1/4s 1/2s and 1/8ths).

The material used was Foster stretcher bars, cut to custom size with key corners by foster.

Side stapled and keyed to tight and square.

I told the framer to log on the The G and ask. But I am going ahead and doing it first with the hopes of further prodding him to register.

Some of you will know him instantly by his last name: Gibson
 
So the question is:
How much would you charge for each of these?

How about if you used strainers and not stretchers?

How about if you used stretchers in standard lengths?
 
23x27 $44.41
25x35 $55.16

I can get 1" increment stretcher bars from my supplier and for "vacation art" that is what I would use. I would charge the same though for non standard as well, but they would only be keyed on 2 corners.

I just got 3 painting that were "purchased from the artist" in spain. Funny how much they look like the ones from China.
 
$70 for the smaller one, and $83 for the larger one. Same price for stretchers or strainers.

And if they balked at those prices, I'd give them the option of gluing to gatorboard for maybe $50 each.

And if they still balked, I'd sell them thumbtacks for a nickel a tack.
 
PaulSF said:
And if they still balked, I'd sell them thumbtacks for a nickel a tack.
Click to expand...
Plus sales tacks? Sorry,hadta....................L.
 
I would also assume offered very tactfully too?

As an aside I would have mentioned/added the mount to board/foam/gator route, as I would have gone that way too. But for this question I thought not not add the division or derision that can be such a affront to some.

They can save the money on tacks if they just use a home stapler right on the wall too.
 
The advantage of offering the glue-to-gator option is that you can sell them a frame, too. With the stretching option, the customer is likely to want you to just put a wire on the back so they can go the "gallery" route. Also, when you mount to gator you have a lot more options for the frame, because you don't have to worry about the stretchers sticking out the back.
 
23X27 = $83
25X35 = $90
 
I don't understand the high prices for stretching a canvas. The material costs are nil on these. I use a Tensador II canvas stretcher and can get this size done in under 3 minutes including building the stretcher frame. What is it that you are charging for?

Paul, I do charge more for gallery wraps in fact, I charge double.
 
$58.75 for the strecher and $31.20 for labor.
$70.80 for the larger and $35.75 for labor.
For strecher stock from LJ.
 
FrameMakers said:
I don't understand the high prices for stretching a canvas. The material costs are nil on these. I use a Tensador II canvas stretcher and can get this size done in under 3 minutes including building the stretcher frame. What is it that you are charging for?

Paul, I do charge more for gallery wraps in fact, I charge double.
Click to expand...

Maybe your leaving money on the table.
 
FrameMakers said:
Maybe I am. But at $60 an hour are you taking 1/2 an hour to stretch the small one
Click to expand...
Are you charging by the minute? What amount of time do you expect to spend streching ? I think a half hour is pretty acceptable amount of time.
 
Price is all a range. It will depend upon sooooooooooooooooo many factors. Mostly relating to each individual shop and situation. It's not just a matter o fwhat's the markup on the wood.
Overhead.
(expected) Profit.
Hard costs (mldg)
Soft costs (expendalbes etc)


In short: The whole Megilla.

And no individual job really adequately addresses the accurate cost. Some aspects you may even thin out the margin, while fattening others.
And we know that framers notoriously undercharge for their goods or services
 
Marc, that looks like a high-end shop. I can't imagine why someone would balk at the cost to stretch a canvas when they are buying a closed-corner gilded frame.
:shrug: Rick
 
Ted's place (and now Richard's) has been there forever.

And his base did have a shock from his dad's death

It is in a "transitional" area. So higher end customers do have to make the trek.

His place runs the gamut or clientele. You did notice the size as 10,000sq

Not just High but,

High, Low, and Middle

Large or Small.

Commercial, Custom, Studios, Designer, Artist, etc . . . all the way to the Blue Haired Watercolor Ladies.

Y'know. For better or for worse, your typical framer that is all things to everybody.
 
My prices included labor and materials. I don't have a Tensador, Dave, so there's a lot more labor involved for me. I not only have to cut and join the stretcher bars, but then I have to get everything lined up just so and staple that sucker to the wood. These aren't big canvases, but it might take me half an hour to do them. I deserve to be compensated for my time.

On your side, you have to recover the cost of your Tensador. It's the same analysis as for comparing manual mat cuts to using a CMC.
 
I punched in ours and both came out 3/4 hour each + bars. Cheap if its even inches, more if they have to come from Foster. Much more if they are ovals that need to be keyed and I have to make the @#^&*(%$% myself.

$97.50 and $104.25 respectively with Fosters. four figures and 6 months if they are ovals.
 
It's sometimes hard to price stretching this sort of 'art'. I get a lot of it to do and the main prob for me is getting bars the right size. Some canvases are metric sizes. Can I buy metric sized bars 'off the shelf'? Short answer - No. Even imperial sizes go up in 2" increments pver 16".
The 'Hong Kong' variety of paintings tend to be fairly simple. Decent canvas and no 'funny' sizes. The paint sometimes cracks and drops off, but that's just the nature of the beast. The really painful sort are the ones that look as though they painted on the sheets off someones bed. They deform very badly when taken off the original bars for ease of transport. Plus, you half expect them to rip down the middle as you tension them. On the other extreme there are some done of very heavy and inflexible canvas. Had one the other week. It just didn't want to bend around the edges. Had to use extra thick bars and really bang the wedges in.

So the moral is: Don't just go by the size alone. One 20x24 might take 10mins to do. Another might take 2hrs and them some.
Also, making/sourcing odd-sized bars adds a lot to the price.
 
50 U.I. = $90.00 ($36.30 for strainers; $53.70 for stretching)

60 U.I. = $106.70 ($52.90 for strainers; $63.80 for stretching)

I know I’m going to get heat for this, but I don’t see the point of stretcher bars.

I use strainers exclusively.

1) They are easily mitered to any size (I’m not confined to standard 2” increments)

2) There is too much lead time and cost for custom sized stretchers.

3) Once joined, strainers remain square while I am stretching the canvas; strainers often don’t unless you “temporarily” staple the corners – then what’s the point of the “flexibility” of the stretcher?

4) With proper tension, the canvas stretches onto strainers perfectly without the need for keying. And, if you need to key the stretchers, they often go out of square.

5) Once in the frame, you often don’t have enough room to key stretchers anyway.
 
I know I’m going to get heat for this, but I don’t see the point of stretcher bars.

Not from me!

Let me put it this way . . . .

The only keyed corners that would leave our shop, would one where the customer brought it in, in the first place.

D'oh!
Click to expand...
 
Create a Post
Back
Top