shrink wrapping ... toxic fumes!?!

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Printmaker,

What kind of shrinkwrap machine are you using??

I have a Cavalier that I bought 15 years ago and I use their shrinkwrap material also and I have not noticed any "noxious" fumes coming from the materials.

Do you notice this when you are heat cutting the shrink wrap or when you are heating it with a heat gun?

That is a strange one for me. :confused:

Framerguy
 
During the sealing process (not the shrinking process) I have noticed that some films smoke and stink and leave a black residue.

You might try a different shrink film. Price doesn't seem to be the determining factor. I've actually had the best results with United's shrink film in the heaviest available weight. It's also one of the more economical.
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
Printmaker,

What kind of shrinkwrap machine are you using??

Do you notice this when you are heat cutting the shrink wrap or when you are heating it with a heat gun?
Click to expand...
The machine is from United.

The smoke (no black film - just a bit of wispy white smoke) is when the wire cuts/seals the wrap.

I've tried a number of brands over the years (United, S & W, Larson etc); I prefer some to others, but they have all produced a bit of smoke and odour...

One or two pieces would not be a concern. However, I usually have to wrap a minimum of 50-100 matted pieces at a time. With each piece producing "a bit of smoke", it accumulates, even with the exhaust fan going.

I had noticed in my Grumble search, that others had switched to plastic bags because of this problem, so I know I'm not alone. Plastic bags is an option, I suppose, but I would prefer staying with shrink wrapping, assuming I don't find out that the technique is killing me...

On the other hand, I can take solice in the fact that these fumes cannot possibly be more harmful than the traditional printmaking methods and materials I've employed over the last two and a half decades. :rolleyes:
 
that is like Black and white photography...the smell makes you wonder when you are going to keel over. But as time goes on it is a great smell, but you are not suppossed to put your hands in the chemicals. And most people that have been doing it a while can't smell the chemicals and put their hands in the chemistry. I know it is not safe, but it is part of it. Something that you do, or you can be that person in the darkroom that has all the gear of Darth Vader. I have seen this come out of a darkroom...it is quite scary at 2AM.

d
 
Many shrink wrap films do give off toxic fumes when heated. Usually very small amounts of molecules that break down quickly.

You'll have to go to the manufacturer of the particular brand you use to get the chemical information. I wouldn't worry about it unless you do a LOT of wrapping. You probably get more toxins in your breakfast cereal.

Just make sure you have good ventilation. That's a good idea in a frame shop anyway, with all the weird stuff we use.
 
There are two types of shrink film used in this industry. They are PVC and Polyolefin. Generally speaking PVC is bad for you and the Polyolefin is okay.

The normal way to tell the two types apart is by their feel. The PVC is harder and crinkly in feel to the touch. When you grab a handful of it and crush it in your hand it is like crushing up paper. The Polyolefin is soft and easily squeezes into a ball in your hand. The following are from a couple of web sites discussing the environmental and health problems with PVC or Poly Vinyl Chloride.

“Many people do not know the dangers of burning PVC. Burning of PVC produces hydrogen chloride gas in the smoke as well as dioxins and chlorinated furans, two of the most toxic cancer-causing substances known”

“PVC contains 56% chlorine. When burned, PVC produces large quantities of hydrogen chloride gas. When breathed, this gas combines with water to form hydrochloric acid in the lungs. Dioxins and furans can also be produced. These highly toxic cancer-causing substances are either inhaled directly or are deposited on soil, water and crops which become a part of the food chain.”

You are not going to be burning the PVC like would happen in a open fire or flame. However there is a fair amount of burning that takes place when the heat wire burns through the PVC. The smell alone from PVC film is more pungent and foul than the smell coming from Polyolefin. When you switch from PVC to Polyolefin you will immediately notice the improved odor when using it.

Also for heat wire to work properly and not burn excessively on the PVC and the Polyolefin they should be covered with Teflon tape. The Teflon tape prevents the burned gummy part of the shrink wrap from sticking to the wire and burning to a crisp each time the wand is brought down on the film. Also you should frequently take a small piece of corrugated cardboard and slide it along the wire at 45 degrees to scrape off the small bits of film that have attached to the wire and/or the Teflon tape. If there is tape over the wire, the bits of melted film come off on the cardboard scraper easier. Shops often renew the lower Teflon tape on the hold down pad, but generally once the original tape over the wire is burned through they don’t bother to replace it.

We quit selling PVC shrink film 10 years ago due to the health problems associated with this the product. Those who switch over to the Polyolefin sometime do not like the tendency for the Polyolefin material to pull together or shrink right after the heat wand is lifted up off the film. PVC will generally stay in a nice long straight line without wanting to shrink in length.

If you are using PVC it should be used with a smoke hood and a vent system to remove the fumes from the work area. There is no way you would be able to use PVC shrink film today in a production operation without the Workers Compensation organization insisting that a venting system be used.

I would make sure that the film you are purchasing is Polyolefin although many major framing suppliers are still selling PVC film. There is a place for PVC films in industry, but not in frame shops.

Alan
 
Thanks so much for a very good comparison of the films that are available. I never knew most of that information so it was a learning experience for me just to read your post.

It also explains exactly why I have never noticed the fumes or smell with my shrink wrap outfit. Apparently the Cavalier Company never has used PVC in their roll products as all of the shrink wrap I have used has had a soft pliable feel and it sort of "draws" up when you lower the wand down and cut it, particularly on the roll side of the material.

I also have a large roll of "mystery" stuff that I never quite knew what it was used for and I'll bet that it is the PVC version! It is crinkly like cellophane and sounds like a fire burning when you wad a piece of it up. I have tried it for a couple of things over the years but haven't had it work for anything yet. (Never thought about shrinkwrapping something in it because of its characteristics being so different from the stuff I use).

Thanks again, Alan, for some valuable info.

Framerguy
 
If we ever had an award for Most Valuable Grumbler, I think Alan would be a real contendor.

Come to think of it, there would be a couple of other Canadian Grumblers in the running, too.

That's disturbing.
 
Alan's info is accurate, but I would like to add that PVC shrinkwrap burning (melting) with the wire of a shrinkwrap machine does not give off a high concentration of HCl during the process if any at all in the confines of shrinkwrapping. Catching the stuff on fire on the other hand and in large quantities (whole roll) in an enclosed space can be very bad. PVC because of the Cl is flame resistant so it takes a large amount of heat to get it to burn.

Polyolefin films, which most of us use today, are far less toxic when burned than PVC films, but burn at a lower temperature. Polyolefins are polymers made almost completely of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. When they burn they give off Carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and water vapor. Again, carbon monoxide is poisonous but you would really have to burn the entire roll in an enclosed space to do any damage. The odor you smell with these films are similar in smell to a oily/waxy smell, and you smell it because the odor threshold for the material is well below what could be detected on todays instruments.
 
As always, Alan has posted excellent information.

I just wanted to add that the "shrink back" characteristic of film, where the seal actually draws back, does not have to be inherent in polyolefin films. This is more a feature of the actual formulation of the film, % of polyethylene vs. polypropylene, and of the extrusion process.
The actual % and direction of the shrink can and is controlled in these formulas. All of our film
is polyolefin but does not shrink back. All Shrink Films are not created equal!

Our equipment is a hot wire system that is designed as a free wand in contrast to the fixed arm units. Our wire is exposed and does not need the teflon strip (as long as you are not using PVC). There is very little buildup of film residue on the wire, and it can be easily scraped off with a plastic scraper or your fingernail.
When I am exhibiting and demonstrating at trade shows, I can do 100+ pieces and do not need to clean the wire.

If anyone would like a sample of a polyolefin film (free of course)to compare to what you are currently using, just send me an email and we will send some to you. info@clearmountcorp.com

Hope everyone has a wonderful and busy season!
 
Alan Sturgess said:
There are two types of shrink film used in this industry. They are PVC and Polyolefin. Generally speaking PVC is bad for you and the Polyolefin is okay.

The normal way to tell the two types apart is by their feel. The PVC is harder and crinkly in feel to the touch. When you grab a handful of it and crush it in your hand it is like crushing up paper. The Polyolefin is soft and easily squeezes into a ball in your hand. The following are from a couple of web sites discussing the environmental and health problems with PVC or Poly Vinyl Chloride.

“Many people do not know the dangers of burning PVC. Burning of PVC produces hydrogen chloride gas in the smoke as well as dioxins and chlorinated furans, two of the most toxic cancer-causing substances known”

“PVC contains 56% chlorine. When burned, PVC produces large quantities of hydrogen chloride gas. When breathed, this gas combines with water to form hydrochloric acid in the lungs. Dioxins and furans can also be produced. These highly toxic cancer-causing substances are either inhaled directly or are deposited on soil, water and crops which become a part of the food chain.”

You are not going to be burning the PVC like would happen in a open fire or flame. However there is a fair amount of burning that takes place when the heat wire burns through the PVC. The smell alone from PVC film is more pungent and foul than the smell coming from Polyolefin. When you switch from PVC to Polyolefin you will immediately notice the improved odor when using it.

Also for heat wire to work properly and not burn excessively on the PVC and the Polyolefin they should be covered with Teflon tape. The Teflon tape prevents the burned gummy part of the shrink wrap from sticking to the wire and burning to a crisp each time the wand is brought down on the film. Also you should frequently take a small piece of corrugated cardboard and slide it along the wire at 45 degrees to scrape off the small bits of film that have attached to the wire and/or the Teflon tape. If there is tape over the wire, the bits of melted film come off on the cardboard scraper easier. Shops often renew the lower Teflon tape on the hold down pad, but generally once the original tape over the wire is burned through they don’t bother to replace it.

We quit selling PVC shrink film 10 years ago due to the health problems associated with this the product. Those who switch over to the Polyolefin sometime do not like the tendency for the Polyolefin material to pull together or shrink right after the heat wand is lifted up off the film. PVC will generally stay in a nice long straight line without wanting to shrink in length.

If you are using PVC it should be used with a smoke hood and a vent system to remove the fumes from the work area. There is no way you would be able to use PVC shrink film today in a production operation without the Workers Compensation organization insisting that a venting system be used.

I would make sure that the film you are purchasing is Polyolefin although many major framing suppliers are still selling PVC film. There is a place for PVC films in industry, but not in frame shops.

Alan
Click to expand...
I'm just going to throw in my two cents. I worked in a church supply warehouse for 8 years. We sold eight and a half by 11 printed church bulletin paper. They came in boxes of 500 but churches often wanted to just buy 50 at a time because their churches were small. I used the shrink wrap machine with PVC paper for the entire 8 years, sometimes wrapping 50 to 100 bundles of paper per day 5 days a week. I retired from there 6 years ago. 3 years ago a nodule was found in my right lower lobe. This month I am having that lobe removed because it has cancer. I do not smoke, I have not been around second-hand smoke, no asbestos, etc. After reading the information in this thread I'm wondering if maybe that PVC paper and the toxins from it might have caused my lung cancer. I know when the wire would come down on the paper there was always a plume of black smoke that would rise up. I would wave my hand to try and dissipate the fumes. Everyday there would be pieces of the PVC paper burned onto the wire which would create extra smoke. It did have a Teflon coating but you're right, it would wear off and the guys would not change it right away. Had I thought of researching this earlier I might have brought it up to the owner of the company because they still use the same shrink wrap system today. It is in a large warehouse so there is no fan system.
 
Paper puddles said:
I'm just going to throw in my two cents. I worked in a church supply warehouse for 8 years. We sold eight and a half by 11 printed church bulletin paper. They came in boxes of 500 but churches often wanted to just buy 50 at a time because their churches were small. I used the shrink wrap machine with PVC paper for the entire 8 years, sometimes wrapping 50 to 100 bundles of paper per day 5 days a week. I retired from there 6 years ago. 3 years ago a nodule was found in my right lower lobe. This month I am having that lobe removed because it has cancer. I do not smoke, I have not been around second-hand smoke, no asbestos, etc. After reading the information in this thread I'm wondering if maybe that PVC paper and the toxins from it might have caused my lung cancer. I know when the wire would come down on the paper there was always a plume of black smoke that would rise up. I would wave my hand to try and dissipate the fumes. Everyday there would be pieces of the PVC paper burned onto the wire which would create extra smoke. It did have a Teflon coating but you're right, it would wear off and the guys would not change it right away. Had I thought of researching this earlier I might have brought it up to the owner of the company because they still use the same shrink wrap system today. It is in a large warehouse so there is no fan system.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting. I'm sorry to hear about your cancer, and glad that it's getting treated. You'll likely get a range of responses, but I think it's very likely you're right.
Melted plastic fumes have also caused pancreatic damage for folks in other industries, and I quit laminating and shrink-wrapping to avoid it. I hope that you heal well.
 
It could be, but probably hard to prove.

Welcome to the G and hope you will be well after your surgery. That is quite scary

I don't offer shrinkwrapping as I have no options to do it safely with good ventilation.
 
I was shopping in a used record store this morning when I smelled what I recognized as burning plastic. I immediately got a sore throat and I started coughing. I felt like I couldn't breathe and I was getting a powerful "fight or flight" feeling. There was no visible smoke. I walked over to an employee who was about 40 feet away and I told her I smelled smoke and I thought there might be a fire in the building. She showed me that she was using a hot wire device to seal plastic packages. I asked her to refrain from doing that until I finished shopping. You bet burning plastic smoke is toxic.
 
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