Shadowbox riddle/ headache

[Paul N]

Greetings all:

I had a customer 2 days ago who had 4 Venetian carnival masks, with black ribbons that go around the head of the wearer.

The customer wanted the following:

- Put those masks in shadowboxes (no problem).
- Be able to open the shadowbox, remove the masks, wear it for whatever occasion (scare the neighbors, wear them at some party, etc), then put said masks back into the shadowbox, repeat as needed.

- One of the masks is about 8 inches high (which means it requires a high frame, about 10 inches high)

Can the above be done?? Is there such a (decent) frame??

I can secure secure the masks to the shadowbox only through the ribbons (using tiny stitches) as the area where the mask rests in the shadowbox is only about 1/8 inch thick (max) and we don't want to use glue on those, for obvious reasons. Which means when they want to remove them, the stitches have to come off, then sewn back.

Any ideas?

 

[Jana]

If the customer wants to easily remove the masks, I don't think they would want to bother with tiny stitches. How about little bits of Velcro - the fuzzy side sewn to the mask or ribbons and the hook side glued to the backer?

Maybe Jim Miller would have some suggestions using Mylar strips.

 

[framah]

Ask the customer if they are priceless masks and if not then consider gluing a small magnet on the inside back edges of the mask. That way it will be held in place with magnets and can be removed and replaced at will with no stitching. Obviously, stitching is not a good idea as they can't remove them at will. Nor is gluing them into the box as that is permanent.

Putting small magnets on the inside edge is the only way I can see for you to hang them and still remove them whenever they want.
Putting slits thru the back of the package would allow you to pull the ribbons thru and tie them in the back but then you have to hope the customer will be able to thread the ribbon thru the slit without screwing it up. Just one time of them not being able to put the mask back and they will be back for you to fix the thing.

Better to use magnets and do it that way and tell them that is the ONLY way it can be done and make them believe you as you are the expert, after all.

You can buy moulding and extenders from Picture woods and you can stack as many extenders as you need to make the depth. This won't be cheap, that's for sure!

 

[CAframer]

I have a similar project in house at the moment. Fortunately my client does not want to be able to remove the mask!

One concern is whether the ribbons are adhered sufficiently strongly to the mask to reliably support it's weight. Secondly if you merely attach the ribbons to the mount board will the mask remain in position in a stable manner.

Concerning the shadowbox I prefer a normal moulding faced with an acrylic box. If it is to be removable use the gravity groove method. The benefit is that you can then view the side of the mask as well as the front.

If the masks are to be removable two thoughts spring to mind. If the ribbons are really adhered strongly enough to the mask then pass the ribbons thru slots in the mount board & backing then tie them at the rear. Client can undo and remove whenever they want. Alternatively velcro some L shaped metal brackets to the inside faces of the mask and use rare earth magnets in the mountboard. Client can then remove form mount board and take off the L shaped brackets before wearing. The fuzzy side of the velcro would be used on the inside of the mask so should not be uncomfortable.

 

[CAframer]

Hey framah ... great minds obviously think alike!

 

[Paul N]

Originally posted by Jana:
If the customer wants to easily remove the masks, I don't think they would want to bother with tiny stitches. How about little bits of Velcro - the fuzzy side sewn to the mask or ribbons and the hook side glued to the backer?

Maybe Jim Miller would have some suggestions using Mylar strips.

Velcro might be a good idea.

But since it will be on the silk ribbon that they use to bind the mask around their heads, it might be a (minor) issue. But good idea nevertheless, Thanks!

 

[Sister]

(If I followed Jay's directions correctly, you will see a picture!?!)

This is a large Mardi Gras mask that we did in a deep shadowbox. We used LJ Imperial Silver attached to a custom made box from birch; then primed and painted with Liberon's Sceaux Gilt Varnish.

I cut a styrofoam ball in half and covered it with black velvet fabric. The mask's ribbons were tied around the ball and pinned with stainless steel straight pins. The styrofoam form was then stitched onto the suede background mat.

In your case you could use hook and loop velcro dots or strips on the flat side of the form and on the background mat for access to the mask.

 

[Sister]

Oops, sorry--I will learn to downsize before next image post.

 

[Paul N]

Originally posted by framah:
Ask the customer if they are priceless masks and if not then consider gluing a small magnet on the inside back edges of the mask. That way it will be held in place with magnets and can be removed and replaced at will with no stitching. Obviously, stitching is not a good idea as they can't remove them at will. Nor is gluing them into the box as that is permanent.

Putting small magnets on the inside edge is the only way I can see for you to hang them and still remove them whenever they want.
Putting slits thru the back of the package would allow you to pull the ribbons thru and tie them in the back but then you have to hope the customer will be able to thread the ribbon thru the slit without screwing it up. Just one time of them not being able to put the mask back and they will be back for you to fix the thing.

Better to use magnets and do it that way and tell them that is the ONLY way it can be done and make them believe you as you are the expert, after all.

You can buy moulding and extenders from Picture woods and you can stack as many extenders as you need to make the depth. This won't be cheap, that's for sure!

Magnets was an option I thought about first, but they do wear those masks and the magnets might be an issue (a piece of metal rubbing on on their cheeks) might spoil the fun..

They do now that this will cost accordingly, so they are not worried about the cost that much.

 

[Sister]

Here is a corner 10" box made for the mask.

 

[Paul N]

Hi Andrew:

That's a good idea too (pass the ribbons thru slots in the mount board & backing then tie them at the rear. Client can undo and remove whenever they want.) The ribbons are quite sturdy.

I think it is the best solution considering the repeated use by the customer.

But one of the masks has a holder (see image below, but without the feathers), which will be a challenge, as it has no ribbons, the wearer just uses the handle.

 

[CAframer]

The one with the stick could be held in place with mylar if there is enough height in the box for them to lift it out of its mount. Mylar strip over the stick, both ends thru a slot behind the stick, secured behind the mountboard with 889/888.

 

[Paul N]

Hi Sister:

Thanks for the pictures (your image posting capability is fine, don't worry!), and other good ideas. That looks like a very good way to frame the mask.

I might use a combination of all methods mentioned depending on the size and shape of those 4 masks.

I have a love-hate relationship with shadowboxes: We charge a fortune for them, but sometimes we spend days working on the quirkiness of some!

Last week we were framing (shadowbox) a large signed football sweater. The oversized mat had to be ordered twice (the first one got a scratch) then the EZ needle broke twice and replacements were out of stock so we had to buy a whole set that came with extra needles!

 

[Emibub]

I think you need some sort of bent rods to rest the mask on. You could disguise the rods so they don't show at all or you cover them with matching ribbon. Hopefully, Jim Miller will speak up, it was one of his classes I saw the bent rods being used.

 

[McPhoto]

Paul -
Taking Kathy's idea with a difference - I would use pegboard hooks - two per mask. They come in various lengths from 1" to 14".
Since these hooks are usually chrome in color, I would spray paint them matte black to "disappear" within the frame - I would also cover the hook with black vinyl or rubber tubing to prevent the marring of the masks.
The masks would then rest on the pegboard hooks thru the two eye openings on each mask - the feathered mask w/ the handle would only need 2" hooks whereas the full face masks would require 8" (or longer) hooks. You could also cut the hooks to length so they protrude thru the eye holes only a little bit (1/2" perhaps)
It would be simple, it would be secure because the eye holes would be a good balance point and you wouldn't have to mess with attaching anything to the masks just in case they are valuable (or might become valuable)

 

[GRYPHON 1]

How about a couple acrylic rods through the eye holes?? Easy on easy off! Put it in a shadowbox faced with a framed piece of glass that is hinged to the shadow box.

 

[Phoneguy]

Originally posted by GRYPHON 1:
How about a couple acrylic rods through the eye holes?? Easy on easy off! Put it in a shadowbox faced with a framed piece of glass that is hinged to the shadow box.

And then put some fake glass eyes in front to make the masks jump out at you!

(Its almost halloween boys and girls!)

 

[Puppyraiser]

And of course the most annoying part is that they probably will either take them out only once or more likely never, but they will know that they COULD if they wanted to...

 

[Jim Miller]

This could be an interesting project.

I suggest using a "Slider" (inner/outer shadowbox frames; no hardware) or "Gravity Groove" (lift-off acrylic box) frame design. Both of these would allow easy opening while the base frame stays attached to the wall -- no tools needed.

For mounting, I suggest tying the ribbon behind the mask and looping it over a hook-like assembly of acrylic or 4-ply board layers covered to match the mounting background. Depending on the configuration of the mask, a slight shelf might help to support the mask. That way, there would be no change to the mask and it could be taken out/replaced with little or no work.

And for the best view, Museum Glass or Optium Museum Acrylic.

 

[Paul N]

Pegboard hooks is also a good idea.

Thanks all for your kind help. I think I should ask the customer about the frequency they intend to use those masks and see which solutions works best for them.

 

[framah]

The one with the handle might be able to be inserted into one of those plastic things that hold flowers and a little water that you pin to your lapel. Or... even a test tube of sorts velcroed to the back panel in the box or something like that.

If you are going to put in fake glass eyes, then how about a pair of those fake noses with the glasses and the mustache. That would look great!!
(Hey, Andrew... bet you weren't thinking of that, were you?)

But you need the eyes to really bug out for it to have the best effect.
I hope all of this is a big help to you. We are working real hard coming up with these ideas, you know.

 

[Paul N]

Originally posted by framah:
If you are going to put in fake glass eyes, then how about a pair of those fake noses with the glasses and the mustache. That would look great!!
(Hey, Andrew... bet you weren't thinking of that, were you?)

LOL, there must be a pair of fake eyes that seem to look at you from every angle...or even better, fake eyes that blink occasionally!!

Now, that would be a great shadowbox

 

[CAframer]

Hey Paul:

I would be interested to see how your project turns out ... in the meantime here are some photos of the Venetian mask I have just completed. The photos don't really do justice to the colors, but "in the flesh" the Studio moulding and Frank's fabric were perfect compliments to the colors of the mask. The mask is held in place by it's ribbons passing thru slots in the hand wrapped mat. Glazing is a 5" deep acrylic box courtesy of Lois at Superior.

 

[MerpsMom]

Those are beautiful. I'm not pushing Gemini's gravity groove mouldings/acrylic boxes, but they do offer an invaluable plus: you can pull the acrylic box off to retrieve the inevitable nit you find after finishing the project.

I did a 2'x14"x12" natural wasp nest before I knew about the gravity groove thing. Like to lost my mind with the bits inside the box.

But either way, these poke-out boxes are stunning! poke-out being a technical term.

 

[Paul N]

Hi Andrew:

One of the masks in question looks almost exactly like the one you posted! Same height and size too.

Is the acrylic removable and how is it held in place??

Thanks for the photos, really helpful. I will discuss with client and see what happens.

 

[CAframer]

In this case the client did not want a removable front. Therefore the acrylic box is made with a lip. The box passes thru the frame and the lip sits behind the rabbet. Back secured as normal.

In your case where you need a removable front, follow previous suggestions on this thread and either use a gravity groove or a slider design.

 

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by PaulN:
...Is the acrylic removable and how is it held in place??

I don't know about Andrew's frames, but Gravity Groove frames look similar -- that is, no hardware of any kind. The edges of the lift-off acrylic box are held captive in a groove between inner and outer mouldings.

Gemini Moulding/Showcase Acrylics has developed an "enhanced" version of the design and offers them pre-assembled in a variety of styles and colors, and in any size of course.

(Please excuse this shameless plug: Gravity Groove is one of several easy-open designs featured in "The Complete Guide to Shadowboxes and Framing Objects" class coming to WCAF-Las Vegas in January).

 

[CAframer]

Adding to Jim's plug ... if you have not taken one of his classes you have missed a treat ... more than worth the time and money!!!!

 

[Paul N]

Originally posted by Jim Miller:
(Please excuse this shameless plug: Gravity Groove is one of several easy-open designs featured in "The Complete Guide to Shadowboxes and Framing Objects" class coming to WCAF-Las Vegas in January).

Thanks for the info Jim, I will make sure I attend the class.