Seriously United? Again? We go thru this, yet again?

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cjmst3k

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Posts
4,414
I need 1 thing for a framing order. A gallon of fabric adhesive. But they don't typically ship just 1 item... at least, never have allowed me to do that before. So I came up with a list of a bunch of other stuff, just to get the 1 thing. And before I closed the order I asked them if - prior to shipping - if they will let me know if anything is out of stock. They said they will. I made it clear this was important.

We all see where this is going... it's not new.

So, in today's box from United which was conspicuously small in size....

Guess what was out of stock? ...the one thing I needed.
Did they give me a call, like they said they would? ...nope.
Am I now in a pickle because they chose not to let me know? ...yup.

So, I'm now overstocked on the things I don't need, and out of what I desperately need.... PLUS the added benefit of now being behind on schedule, and now I need to call my customer and I'm now going to miss my deadline.

Thanks again United.

...if you don't have it, let me know. I'll understand.
...if you say you're gonna call me if you don't have it, then do that.

Don't leave me hanging. It's hard enough to run a retail store without having suppliers leave you high-and-dry, with almost predictable regularity.
 
Why not order a galleon from Frank's directly? At least you know it will be in stock and fresh and shipped right away.
 
Rob Markoff said:
Why not order a galleon from Frank's directly? At least you know it will be in stock and fresh and shipped right away.
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United is 2 days shipping away. Franks is about a week away.

If United would have called me to say that they were out of it, or told me when I ordered, I would have done so. I was relying on UMS to follow thru with what they said they would do, which is just tell me if they don't have it.

...call going to Franks right now.
 
Chris, I tried to call you, but your line was busy......

so I decided to be preemptive by calling Frank......

but he was on the phone talking to you.

I guess I should have turned on the computer sooner.... instead
of straightening the desk (which still didn't help)....

but I'm glad you got taken care of.
 
Baer Charlton said:
Chris, I tried to call you, but your line was busy......

so I decided to be preemptive by calling Frank......

but he was on the phone talking to you.

I guess I should have turned on the computer sooner.... instead
of straightening the desk (which still didn't help)....

but I'm glad you got taken care of.
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haha... two steps ahead of me Baer. Indeed I was on the phone with Frank, and ordering glue turned into a 25 minute sales pitch on his other products - however a very nice person to speak with, and I do look forward to adding his products to my line towards the end of the year.

Was there something you wanted to say?
 
All order clerks, warehouse people and shippers at frame supply wholesalers should be required to work in a frameshop for at least 6 months so they get some basic idea about the supply needs required to keep a framing business running.

With 2000 plus corner samples, 1000 mat samples, 5 different glass types it turns out that from a business point of view material coordination is more important than all the other framing skills because without materials the rest don't matter.

My main supplier will always fax, or call to tell us what's backordered - right after the truck leaves. I've tried for 30 years to get them to call soon enough for us to make suitable substitutuions but they just don't get it.

Frame wholesalers - train your people. For that matter, train yourselves. Materials supply done correctly is critical to the survival of our industry.
 
Bandsaw said:
All order clerks, warehouse people and shippers at frame supply wholesalers should be required to work in a frameshop for at least 6 months so they get some basic idea about the supply needs required to keep a framing business running.

With 2000 plus corner samples, 1000 mat samples, 5 different glass types it turns out that from a business point of view material coordination is more important than all the other framing skills because without materials the rest don't matter.

My main supplier will always fax, or call to tell us what's backordered - right after the truck leaves. I've tried for 30 years to get them to call soon enough for us to make suitable substitutuions but they just don't get it.

Frame wholesalers - train your people. For that matter, train yourselves. Materials supply done correctly is critical to the survival of our industry.
Click to expand...

AMEN !
 
I placed an order of "non-critical but low quantities" from United last week. They came at the beginning of this week. One of the 14-15 items was out of stock. Not a big deal for me.

I never promise a due date for a project if I know that it might be delayed by a back order.
 
JFeig said:
I placed an order of "non-critical but low quantities" from United last week. They came at the beginning of this week. One of the 14-15 items was out of stock. Not a big deal for me.

I never promise a due date for a project if I know that it might be delayed by a back order.
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I tend to agree here... never assume that you can just order what you need and expect it to get there right when you need it to finish the job.
Always plan ahead.

First.. keep enough in inventory to do any job on hand whenever possible.
Second... if it's something you don't normally stock, plan the job to accommodate any delays in receiving the materials in case of backorders.

Also.. don't wait till you run out of stock to reorder! Reorder when you have about 1/3 left of whatever it is.
 
framah said:
I tend to agree here... never assume that you can just order what you need and expect it to get there right when you need it to finish the job.
Always plan ahead.

First.. keep enough in inventory to do any job on hand whenever possible.
Second... if it's something you don't normally stock, plan the job to accommodate any delays in receiving the materials in case of backorders.

Also.. don't wait till you run out of stock to reorder! Reorder when you have about 1/3 left of whatever it is.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. Though this is a product I don't use often, and can "turn" after a year.

I'd still have to admit that UMS promising accurate communication, but not doing that, put a delay into this that was unnecessary. Luckily this is not one of those must-have-or-die things.
 
If I had seen this earlier I could have hooked you up with a gallon of LaminAll. I buy it 4 gallons per case so I usually have a couple of extras on hand.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
If I had seen this earlier I could have hooked you up with a gallon of LaminAll. I buy it 4 gallons per case so I usually have a couple of extras on hand.
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I appreciate it Jeff. I'm not sure how LaminAll is with fabric... What's your experience with it? I'll probably wait for Franks, as I've heard good things about it.
 
LaminAll has been the go to fabric glue for decades Chris. I would bet it is nearly identical to Franks. I've been using it for 30 years with no problems or complaints.
 
Had a similar issue with United just last week. Was told one thing on the phone and then another thing when I called back to check on the situation. Of course I was asked "who told you that?". My reply was one of your employees. I understand things go out of stock, but do what you say you're gonna do.
 
I have tried to order from United about 4 times and they never seem to have anything I need (and its usually simple supplies nothing to fancy). I usually need one thing they carry and none of my local guys has it or are out but like Chris can't get 1 item shipped so work up a pretty big order. Then when I get my order 1 of the 20 things I wanted is there and not the one I needed. Then one they called and tole me " everything you have order but coner protectors are on BO" so I cancelled my order. Then four days later I get a huge box with 3 rolls of Kraft paper (which I ordered one) and they charged me 180 extra for shipping. Finally got it squared away and was refunded but was out like 300 bucks on CC. Haven't tried ordering since.
 
Acrylic gel medium makes a good fabric adhesive, and you can buy it at nearly any art supply store, not to mentions M, JA, and HL. Roll it on the board or fabric, let it dry, then activate the bond using heat of about 150 degrees F. You can also iron it on.

The heat activation process works with most of the commercial fabric glues, as well...if you happen to have one of them on hand.
 
Backorder

cjmst3k,
I wish to apologize to you for our error. Your account is marked to call with all out of stocks and we blew it. Just a small point about the fabric adhesive; we do not have stock of this product in Winter and the manufacturer will not ship to us until mid April as the product is not freeze/thaw stable and separates when frozen in transit. This too should have been told you when placing your order. Please accept my apologies.
 
:thumbsup::thumbsup: to Peter!
 
cjmst3k said:
United is 2 days shipping away. Franks is about a week away.
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In my business classes we talk about "delivery" - especially when choosing any vendor (or others choosing YOU as a vendor). The shipping time is irrelevant if one cannot "deliver" the goods.

Why buy fabric adhesive from Frank's? Because if you have a problem, need to know a technique, need advice from an EXPERT - there is no extra charge.....:) Yes, there are plenty of other adhesives that work but how many of them come with the SUPPORT and service level that Frank's offers?

Reminds me of a story from one of my business professors and mentors that has stayed with me all these years.

A man goes into a sporting goods store to buy some tennis balls and sees a price of $15.99 per can. He says to the owner, "$15.99 per can, that is ridiculous, I can get them for $10.99 per can at Al's Sporting Goods." The owner replies, "Then why don't you buy them there?" And the man answers, "Because Al's is out of them." And the owner says, "Well when I am out of tennis balls, my price is $10.99 too."
 
Misrepresentation of the facts

Modigity aka Mellis Photography,

I will quote a part of your post:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Then one they called and tole me " everything you have order but coner protectors are on BO" so I cancelled my order. Then four days later I get a huge box with 3 rolls of Kraft paper (which I ordered one) and they charged me 180 extra for shipping. Finally got it squared away and was refunded but was out like 300 bucks on CC. Haven't tried ordering since."
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The only part of the above quote that is true is that you have not tried to order since. The reality is this:
You placed an order for assorted hardware and 1 roll of kraft paper. Our system splits this into one order for hardware and one for the kraft paper. When you cancelled the order we cancelled the hardware order and missed the second order containing the kraft paper. We sent the one roll of kraft paper and billed your account for $66.21 for merchandise and shipping, not $180.00 as you state. How were you out $300.00 on your CC? You called and insisted we credit you immediately and we complied. We then issued a UPS call tag to pay the return shipping. 60 days later we called you and asked where the return was as you now had the roll of kraft paper at no cost and failed to return it. We sent another call tag and finally got back the roll.

Now what I would like ti know is why you choose to use public forum to post false allegations against my company? I have the documented proof of the charges, credits, and call tags.

I have been in contact with my attorney regarding this obvious slander. In order to avoid a lawsuit that would be costly to both of us, I will accept a very public apology from you in this forum.
 
And we're off........
 
Apology

Modigity,
Still waiting for your public apology.
 
Can't let go.

Modigity,
Upon re-reading your post I find three more misrepresentations.

You wrote: "I have tried to order from United about 4 times and they never seem to have anything I need (and its usually simple supplies nothing to fancy). I usually need one thing they carry and none of my local guys has it or are out but like Chris can't get 1 item shipped so work up a pretty big order. Then when I get my order 1 of the 20 things I wanted is there and not the one I needed. "

Since this is your first order from United, and it was not shipped how do you "get my order 1 of the 20 things I wanted is there and not the one I needed. " ?

Regarding the only order ever placed and canceled by you I have the following information:

Now the truth of the matter is that this is the first (most likely the last) order you have ever placed using the Mellis Photography account. You ordered 5 items, not 20. The only items out of stock was a squaring arm for a C&H mat cutter which we ship directly from the manufacturer and a colored moulding marking pen. So really we were only out the pen as the other item was to be shipped direct from the manufacturer.

So lets see, you never ordered before but your orders always contain backorders??????
You order 5 items but 20 were out of stock???????

As you can see from these posts and the private message I sent to you directly, I am not going to let this go away. You will soon be receiving a letter from my attorney. You apology is still acceptable, but I do not think you have the cojones so I won't hold my breath.

I will now get on with my life but I recommend someone else gets one.
 
This thread isnt making ANYONE look good, and will probably be moved to the Warped section soon.
 
Mike Labbe @ GTP said:
This thread isnt making ANYONE look good, and will probably be moved to the Warped section soon.
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I suggest you just leave it where it is.

Whether it "makes anyone look good" or not is not a valid reason to move this post.
It is framing related and not some sort of "Warped " post.

Let's not get into this subtle form of sensorship just because you are uneasy about the subject matter.
 
framah said:
I suggest you just leave it where it is.

Let's not get into this subtle form of sensorship just because you are uneasy about the subject matter.
Click to expand...

Amen!!!

By the way, I do like hearing the other side of things for a change.
 
Mike Labbe @ GTP said:
This thread isnt making ANYONE look good, and will probably be moved to the Warped section soon.
Click to expand...

If either side is serious about litigation it may be best to make the whole thread go away and send each of the involved parties a copy of it for their records.

It's not making anyone look good, the Grumble included.
 
apology accepted

This is a public forum and when a post is detrimental to the reputation of my company, I am compelled to respond.

An apology has been received privately and accepted.

Nuff said.
Peter
 
Excellent

Thanks for the follow-up
Mike
 
I think the moral to this story is when there is a problem with United one should pick up the phone and ask to speak to Peter directly. I have never had a problem getting through to Peter whether I had a problem or just needed his assistance.

I highly recommend joining the Framers Club which only requires $100 in purchases to receive free shipping. Peter guarantees you will receive at least the price of membership in benefit during the year so you can't lose on the $49 investment. I will be renewing mine tomorrow since it has expired in the last month or so. Out of stocks ship at no charge when they arrive and I always get a call to see if I still need the item.
 
Agreed. You can make it go away if you want.


Good for you, Peter, for sticking to your guns!:thumbsup:
 
I would say; leave it here. Why not? I like the fact that Peter is willing to take it further when false information is posted. I think it's good to see both sides.

I've not ordered a lot from United but when I have, I never had any problems. When and if I get busier again...I will look into joining the club. Thanks for the reminder Jeff.
 
I have talked with Peter and apologized for my post. I had been mistaken and got my interacrtion with united mixed up with another transaction with another company. I apologize, I better check my facts and make sure I am correct before posting next time, my bad. Once again sorry for the post Peter.
 
A good lesson for all...check your facts before speaking.
This is good advice in general, not only in cyberspace.
 
I "use to" do a decent amount of business with UMS, then... 6-10 years ago (???I am sorta lost in time), when i was ordering ALL matboards from them, 99% of the time i got what i ordered. Then... I placed an order and a bid chunk of them were no longer in stock because they were not "moving" like the others. So, when i would place and order, whatever was NOT in stock, they ordered them, but it would usually take abut 30 days. So, to save on shipping cost, i would wait and combine ALL the matboards together. I really hated :soapbox: doing business like this, so i found another distributer without that problem! Being i was also purchasing other supplies from UMS i called and talked to Peter (i believe it was Peter) about the problem and told him i DID find another distributor that DID stock ALL of them... he said something like "well, then deal with the other supplier". I have been doing so every since. I ONLY place an order with UMS if M&M, Decor, ebay, etc., etc., etc....) doesn't have it and i can't find it anywhere else.
 
I think this thread has well illustrated that a public forum is not an appropriate place to try to resolve a personal issue with a supplier.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
 
Rick Granick said:
I think this thread has well illustrated that a public forum is not an appropriate place to try to resolve a personal issue with a supplier.
:kaffeetrinker_2: Rick
Click to expand...

Oh contraire,

It has illustrated that the public forum is an ideal place to handle a personal issue with a supplier. Moddigity confused UMS with another company, hurt Peter's feelings she saw her mistake and apologized.

The personal issue was handled correctly. The business issue.... that issue's propriety in a public forum can be discussed, but the personal issue between customer and supplier, or between two grumblers, should be able to be discussed here :)

in other words if you change the word personal with professional in your post and I will agree with you :)
 
Actually Bob, I am a Guy but I do think we got things worked out.
Bob Doyle said:
Oh contraire,

It has illustrated that the public forum is an ideal place to handle a personal issue with a supplier. Moddigity confused UMS with another company, hurt Peter's feelings she saw her mistake and apologized.
Click to expand...
 
MitchelC said:
I "use to" do a decent amount of business with UMS, then... 6-10 years ago (???I am sorta lost in time), when i was ordering ALL matboards from them, 99% of the time i got what i ordered. Then... I placed an order and a bid chunk of them were no longer in stock because they were not "moving" like the others. So, when i would place and order, whatever was NOT in stock, they ordered them, but it would usually take abut 30 days. So, to save on shipping cost, i would wait and combine ALL the matboards together. I really hated :soapbox: doing business like this, so i found another distributer without that problem! Being i was also purchasing other supplies from UMS i called and talked to Peter (i believe it was Peter) about the problem and told him i DID find another distributor that DID stock ALL of them... he said something like "well, then deal with the other supplier". I have been doing so every since. I ONLY place an order with UMS if M&M, Decor, ebay, etc., etc., etc....) doesn't have it and i can't find it anywhere else.
Click to expand...


...and this is pertinent how?

Different suppliers run their business as they see fit to make a profit. Apparently, stocking mat boards that don't sell is not a good idea for making a profit. The other company seemed to think they were selling enough to make it worth their while.

All Peter, if it is who you talked to, did was agree with you that you need to use the other supplier. Did you expect him to continue stocking product that doesn't move just for your convenience? He actually helped you by special ordering them for you. He didn't have to do that.

So, 6 to 10 YEARS ago this happened and you still are harboring bad feelings toward UMS?
Seriously, get over it. I'm sure Peter was hurt by your rejection but I'm also pretty sure he has gotten over it by now.:icon11:

For the record, I have been ordering from them since I opened.. around 18 years ago and haven't had the problems posted here. If something is BO'd I get a call asking what I would like them to do.
If an order gets messed up, which based on the enormous volume they do every day, will happen every once in a while, a simple call and within the day it has been resolved to everyones satisfaction.
 
Modigity said:
Actually Bob, I am a Guy but I do think we got things worked out.
Bob Doyle said:
Oh contraire,

It has illustrated that the public forum is an ideal place to handle a personal issue with a supplier. Moddigity confused UMS with another company, hurt Peter's feelings she saw her mistake and apologized.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Didn't mean to insult you :) And glad that we have now gotten that "personal issue" cleared up.... :):)
 
framah: "Different suppliers run their business as they see fit to make a profit. Apparently, stocking mat boards that don't sell is not a good idea for making a profit."

Wakeup! Unbelievable!... not a single dealer stocking ALL the matboards have 'closed shop" yet! They must be doing something right... When you need, for example a couple of eye-screws, do you take them out of a box of 100, or 200 or do you go to a hardware store :confused: ?

THE END.
 
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