Search Rankings Experiment

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DLB

DLB

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Posts
688
Loc
Salt Lake City, Utah
As we all know, search rankings are based on several factors. One of them is outside links coming to your site. In other words a link to your site on another site. I was wondering since a lot of us have websites, and compete with other local framers that aren't on the grumble, we could give ourselves a little advantage.

What if each of us created a page with links to all our grumble community pages on our sites. It wouldn't have to be on a main page, it could be a separate page, that it just links to our grumble members web pages all by itself.

So let's try this experiment, to see if it works. If there are suggestions, please feel free to throw them in there. Maybe it will increase our search results rankings.

Each person post their website (the home page) here in this thread. In turn, everyone who also posts, create a link on your website for them. I would suggest making a new page, (you don't even have to add it to your navigation menu or anything so that customers see it), then add all the websites you see in this thread.

Let's see if you get any better hits on your search results.

What do you all think?

dave.

Here's mine: www.framenook.com
 
DLB said:
Each person post their website (the home page) here in this thread. In turn, everyone who also posts, create a link on your website for them. I would suggest making a new page, (you don't even have to add it to your navigation menu or anything so that customers see it), then add all the websites you see in this thread.



Let's see if you get any better hits on your search results.

What do you all think?

dave.

Here's mine: www.framenook.com
Click to expand...

Dave, I have a Resources page on my site. It lists local art services, local galleries, museums, and such. You have given me an idea. Often out of state readers write for info. It would be nice to refer them to my resources page for a list of framing experts listed geographically. This way there is a real reason for the link. I would do it without logos, BTW, just to keep the page looking clean.

None of this undermines the LIFE membership. It is just more links.

I'm thinking about all of this. Id' like to see John and other web experts weigh in on this topic.


http://www.framerswokrshop.com
 
Bob, thanks for the info. I'm glad to see my website is working properly! Did you get the flash animation too?
 
Most believe that incoming links from other sites that share common keywords and have a high page rank # are very good to boost popularity and ranking. It's advantageous to share.

Mike
approximate ratings:

www.pictureframingmagazine.com has pr 4
www.ppfa.com has pr 4
www.getthepictureframing.com has pr 4
www.decormagazine.com has pr 3
www.theframeworkshop.com has pr 3
www.framersworkshop.com has pr 3
www.thegrumble.com has pr 3
www.frameitup.com has pr 2
www.saratogapictureframing.com has pr 2
www.couturesart.com/ has pr 2
www.thegreatframeup.com has pr 2
www.localindependentframingexpert.com has pr 2
www.frameandartgallery2.com has pr 1
www.classicframingandgifts.com has pr 1

This is not a complete list. You can find this out with the free google toolbar.
 
Mike--great new site. Kudos.

How do you get to be a #4 with the big guys? I looked at your source code. What is different? Do a bunch of well traveled sites link to you?
 
We vary from 3-5, depending on the week. It's a balancing act of keyword density, pagerank, and luck. Trial and error...

It was a team effort this time. Andy did all the graphics work, and chose the colors for the new site. I set the sizes, navigation, and SEO. It is still a work in progress, and i'm not happy with the wording (or my own picture!) yet. ha

Mike
 
PaulSF,

Your new site is looking good. What's going on the Mobile Frame Service? Is this a GF thing that you can use, or is this your van. Pretty cool!
 
Thanks Kirstie!

The Framer On the Go is a franchise thing -- they set up the website, the branding, and the collateral materials. All we have to do is be prepared to visit customers at their workplace or homes. I've got my POS loaded onto my laptop so I can do onsite pricing and take the order on the spot. I'm putting together a set of samples for this program (nothing cheap, not if I'm coming to you), and I just need to get a sample case or two (money is tight, sigh....).

As for a vehicle, what could be better than my chili red Mini Cooper S? I may get a magnet decal for it, but those can actually affect the paint finish. Also, having a decal on the car requires me to drive considerately.
 
I think the whole page rank theme is highly over rated. The main thing that counts is: When somebody searches for your website (in your area, not 500 miles away or 3 states over)): Where are you listed? That sounds like it's page rank related, but in reality it ain't.

Just do a search (the way a customer does, not the way you or your web guru THINK it is done) and see what happens.

Just ask a customer who found you out via Google, for instance, and see what search criteria they used.
 
I attended a local ASID chapter meeting this past week, and there was a presentation by a web design guy. He spent a lot of time talking about how to improve page ranking. One thing that came from it is that you have to mention what it is you do, very clearly and prominently, on your home page. Not just that, but you have to put yourself inside the head of someone searching for a picture framer, and use the terms they would be using in their search. Mention "custom framing" or "picture framing" several times, if possible. Maybe mention posters or artwork. Mention the town you are in, just in case they search on "picture framing in Swampscott." And then go to your website, and look at the blue title bar at the very top of the web browser, to see what is listed. Ideally, you should see the name of your store, and a good description of what you do ("custom framing").
 
Off topic, sorry. Paul, has the ASID membership helped you?

Carry on...
 
I think some people missed the word "experiment" in the threads title. I was looking at exchanging links on each others websites. Rather than speculating, whether it would work or not, why dont we just try?

I only have a handfull of websites. Why doesn't everyone post their link, and then when we say "go" everyone creates a page with those links on it.

It can't hurt right?

dave.
 
There we go. Now we're in an exploratory mood. We'll give people a little while longer to post their websites. Let's say next Sunday we should take all the websites we see here and add a link to them on our web pages.

I don't know if other people check, but I keep a list of keywords I feel customers would use, and I check every couple of weeks where I fall in those search results. Now would be a good time to see where you fall, so we can test if this hypothesis works.

dave.
 
ha ha well... some are of the thought that linking with sites that have a lower pr may penalize/lower yours. The same is felt for "link farms" that have many links that don't necessarily share common keywords. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but better safe than sorry.

High(er) ranked/regarded sites that point TO you (and contain similar content/keywords) seem to be a definate a boost. It's very good to have articles(with links to your site) in trade magazines, or to be listed in the PPFA directory on their website(s); because these sites are well ranked.

Every search engine has a complex and secret formula, which changes regularly. It's a bit of a game to make your site appeal generally to the 'search engine gods', involving a bunch of trial-and-error.

Good quality incoming links seem to be key, as is keyword density, fresh content, and maybe even site longevity. Think backwards - how will they search for my business? by city or state? by project? etc. make sure you have those words/phrases included in the body, alt image tags, and possibly title for various pages in your site. Just having them in meta tags is not sufficient.

Each page on your site should be optimized for the purpose/goal of that page. If you have a page for "shadowboxes", make sure the metas, body text, alt image tags, and TITLE reflect the proper words/phrase that may be searched. This will improve your chances of being seen when folks do specific searches for that type of content.

I'm no expert, by any means, so please do your own experimentation. It's a moving target, and i'm still very much learning.

Any person or company that promises "top 10 ranking" for money, is being less than honest. The people making these promises are most likely the reason the search engines keep changing things up.

Mike
 
Mike Labbe @ GTP said:
Kirsties should be www.framersworkshop.com She accidentally typed it wrong in two of the posts above, but this is the correct link.

I would also love to exchange links with anyone with a pr 1 or higher. Ours is www.getthepictureframing.com If interested, PM me.

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. Too much late night typing!


I'll have my web guru add a links page to our Resources area, hopefully this week. Then I'll add higher ranking links as recommendations by geographical area so that the links have a purpose, and I will add the LIFE link as well. My hesitation with this as you say, Mike, is having our name on a list of links which could penalize us. Still, as long as the various pages are relevant and well ranked, then it seems like it won't hurt and could help.

When you say keywords the same, do you mean as in picture framing, framing, custom framing, etc. ?
 
We've done this a number of times and, to be honest, it has been a heck of a past few weeks so my brain is not the sharpest tool in the shed at this moment so pros and cons re site ranking payback are too much for me, but if any one wants to exchange links please e-mail me at rebecca@fineartconserve.com and I will let my web guy know to add you.

Cheers,

Rebecca
 
I decided to put a links list on this page because I don't have a menu item for links at this time. The page is a sub page of Resources.

Scroll to the bottom. I am adding first and last names. I believe that independent frame shop owners should be up front and personal. I am trying to make these links mean something in terms of a recommended frame shop, so I want to recommend the owner as well as the shop.

This is a work in process, not finished. I need full names.

Kirstie Bennett
The Framer's Workshop
http://www.framersworkshop.com Berkeley, CA
 
Gee....I would love to! I have a webmaster,though...Never asked about adding links.If anyone would have me anyhow here: www.prism-studios.org thanks, L.:thumbsup:
 
Mike, Kirstie & Everyone else,

I was sitting in a meeting today (that was very boring) and my mind started wandering. Mike, your comment about having links from lower PR rankings to your site, and the potential for them to penalize you, I don't know if that makes sense.

The way I look at it, how can you control who links to your page? I'm sure plenty of people probably link to several major sites. People with lower PR rankings. Do you think that those major sites get penalized? Probably not. I don't think that they would penalize you because of something you can't control. It just doesn't seem logical.

What do you guys think?

dave.
 
DLB said:
Mike, Kirstie & Everyone else,

I was sitting in a meeting today (that was very boring) and my mind started wandering. Mike, your comment about having links from lower PR rankings to your site, and the potential for them to penalize you, I don't know if that makes sense.

The way I look at it, how can you control who links to your page? I'm sure plenty of people probably link to several major sites. People with lower PR rankings. Do you think that those major sites get penalized? Probably not. I don't think that they would penalize you because of something you can't control. It just doesn't seem logical.

What do you guys think?

dave.
Click to expand...

Dave:

All I care about is that when somebody searches for anything dealing with framing, custom, mats, art, glass, mirrors, etc, in my area, my site is listed way on top (mostly first search result). Be it on Google, MSN or Yahoo, my results are excellent on all three.

Now, according to Mike (who gets them from Google web tools), my rank is not that high. But the search results tell me otherwise!

And I am getting a decent amount of business from the website.

When I look at my page rank in Google toolbar, my website has a rank I don't care if it is high or low (many don't even show a rank at all). I am linking any framer who asks me (regardless of their page rank) and to heck with Google ranking - results speak louder than rankings! :)
 
A theoretical discussion: IF I were to worry about all of this, I would think about the quality of work the framer I am referring people to does. I would also look at PPFA membership and see if they had a CPF on staff (I don't). I would also look at the quality of the web site, its graphics and content, because any shop that I refer others to would reflect back on me. Rankings are the least of it.
 
Kirstie said:
A theoretical discussion: IF I were to worry about all of this, I would think about the quality of work the framer I am referring people to does. I would also look at PPFA membership and see if they had a CPF on staff (I don't). I would also look at the quality of the web site, its graphics and content, because any shop that I refer others to would reflect back on me. Rankings are the least of it.
Click to expand...

Very true Kirstie.

I don't know if everyone is thinking along the same lines as me, but I'm thinking a page that is not necessarily out in the open on your site. But is somehow part of it. That way, when the search engines crawl it, they see that a link is there, and hopefully score the website it crawls to with an extra point or two. Once we get all these links posted to our sites, we should check back later on to see what happens, otherwise it is not a true experiment. Honestly, it is very unscientific, because there is no control.

The reason I was thinking along these lines, is because of exactly what Kirstie said. In order to give an honest referral, we'd need to know a lot more about the businesses than just their website name. There's a whole slew of variables. But for the sake of the game we're trying out here, I think it is acceptable to just put a page of links, maybe with an explanation of what the end site is. Like, location, description, how funny looking the person is that owns that frame shop (you'd have a heyday with me), whatever...

dave.
 
Dave, I get it , sort of. How are we going to test the results? If we are already at the top of a picture framing search in our area, what are we looking at? To see if we went down? To see if your unique visitors per day raise by 10 or so? LOL! I do like this game, but I don't quite get it.
 
Establishing credability

Kirstie said:
...IF I were to worry about all of this, I would think about the quality of work the framer I am referring people to does. I would also look at PPFA membership and ........................ Rankings are the least of it.
Click to expand...

Kirstie is absolutely correct.

I have linked to select framers for a few years now as a reference to assist visitors to our shop and our website. There are many folks I enjoy being with and discussing our business, but to refer them they have to be more than just good friends.

I might sound a little snobbish, but they must meet my three criteria: 1) PPFA membership; 2) Really good Framers - Conservation / Design and 3) A well executed website: Optimized, User Friendly with good Navigation.

We actually have three "Links Pages" on our website. This Resources Page has a Framers & Galleries section on it.

Paul N said:
... I am linking any framer who asks me (regardless of their page rank) and to heck with Google ranking - results speak louder than rankings! :)
Click to expand...

Paul N,

Mike Labbe may have some argument there, but I have also seen numerous "SEO Experts" debate the validity of PR on a couple of SEO Optimization forums that I visit. Most agree not give it too much weight. In truth the algorithms that are used to create SERP's are complex, changing and even the experts are using a combination of gut instinct, real experiences, some valid data seasoned with some educated guessing and rumor!

Many little things can help a website, and a few things can seriously damage a site.

Inbound links from related websites regardless of PR can't hurt.

John
 
Well, just to keep things simple I would suggest that if you want to add your website to the list, that you cut and paste this:

www.framenook.com
www.sanmateo.thegreatframeup.com
www.classicframingandgifts.com
www.LocalIndependentFramingExpert.com
www.CouturesArt.com
www.nevenjonesdesign.com
www.frameandartgallery2.com
www.framaree.com
www.framersworkshop.com
www.ArtHausFraming.com
www.getthepictureframing.com
www.cedarwoodgallery.com
www.hollandframeshop.com
www.arttaboret.com
www.prism-studios.org
www.ArtImpressions.net
www.freewebs.com/haverstockcreativedesigns
www.framesofmind.biz.
www.excellentframes.com

Adding yours to the bottom each time. If all do this, it will be so much easier to keep up with and to see who we have already linked to. I think Dave's intention was that everyone link back and forth to each other. I notice that some that have requested that their link be placed have not done so yet.

ps. my links page for this is a subpage of the site map
 
Arnold, MD. - www.framenook.com

San Mateao, CA - www.sanmateo.thegreatframeup.com

Warren, NJ - www.classicframingandgifts.com

Sebring, FL - www.CouturesArt.com

San Antonio, TX - www.nevenjonesdesign.com

New Canaan, CT - www.frameandartgallery2.com

Buffalo, NY - www.framaree.com

Berkely, CA - www.framersworkshop.com

Plano, TX - www.ArtHausFraming.com

Lincoln, RI - www.getthepictureframing.com

Concord, NC - www.cedarwoodgallery.com

Holland, OH - www.hollandframeshop.com -www.LocalIndependentFramingExpert.com

Beaver, PA - www.arttaboret.com

Lexington, KY - www.prism-studios.org

Sedalia, MO - www.ArtImpressions.net

Nova Scotia, Canada - www.freewebs.com/haverstockcreativedesigns

Louisville, KY - www.framesofmind.biz.

Douglasville, GA - www.excellentframes.com


posted at: http://www.excellentframes.com/qd/grumbleframers.htm
 
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