Scanner Calibration? SilverFast?

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MaJa

MaJa

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
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Lincoln City, OR
Hey guys ... looking for some words of wisdom!

I have an Epson Expression 1000XL scanner. Love the scanner and it seemed like my colors were coming out good. Suddenly I can't seem to hit the broad side of the color barn. Even fiddling with it in PhotoShop CS5.

The scanner was an off-lease, so I did not get any additional software with it, just what you can download off the Epson website, Epson Scan.

My monitors and printer are calibrated with ColorMunki.

I'm thinking I need to calibrate the scanner, but darned if I can figure out how, other then SilverFast software and IT8 Target. Wasn't really looking to spend that kind of money, but I've got jobs backing up and ... demanding ... artist.

Feedback, ideas, suggestions??
 
Hi Maja,

Colormunki is made by Xrite; however, I dont think it was designed to profile a scanner.

I use the GretaMacbeth (also an Xrite product) to create profiles for printer, monitor, scanner. Seems to me, I used an IT8 chart for scanning transparancies and for scanning prints. Then I printed it and scanned it with GretaMacbeth and created a data file, which provided the source for the scanner profile. My scanner is right on!

I would think the Colormunki would have similar capability, but I read otherwise on the net:

"What other devices can ColorMunki calibrate?
ColorMunki is also able to calibrate or build profiles for RGB or CMYK printers and digital projectors. ColorMunki does not calibrate cameras or scanners or have profile editing capabilities. If you require this level of control then the i1XTreme would be a more suitable solution."
 
I use the X-Rite Pro system to calibrate my monitors, printers and scanners.

i1-basic-pro-contents.png


Amazon has them. All the Pro Photo stores has them also.

They are worth every penny.
 
I’ve never had any problems with SilverFast (w/ Epson 836 XL), but I have fogotten to reset some color palattes a few times.

Have you tried a simple re-set for both levels and curves?
 
Thanks guys!

I didn't think about calibrating my scanner when I ordered the Munki, I should have. The i1 may be in my very near future.

Bill ... I will try that, worth a shot!
 
I honestly have had no need to calibrate my 10000XL. I don't use Silverfast, largely because of price considerations, and just use Epson Scan. I generally set it to Document mode and make sure all adjustments are turned off (like Unsharp mask, etc).

How are you determining that color is way off? If by eyeballing in Photoshop, then you might check proof setup. If you have it set to a profile that doesn't make sense, it would definitely affect what you see on screen. I generally set the proof profile to the media I have loaded in the printer. That way I'm seeing what comes out on the printer.

The only issues I've had with color matching on the scanner has been a slight tendency to color shift on occasion. Usually (90+% of the time), it's spot on. The only pattern I've seen about color shifting is that it only happens when scanning paintings on canvas. Since canvas lets some light through, I'm guessing that it might throw off what it reads. Not sure though.
 
It's not only the screen, but the print that's off. I've tried making color adjustments in PS and I still can't seem to get it. Plus, that gets subjective. I want to scan, print, and get something pretty darn close to the original.

This is happening with different art media, but good thought about the canvas. Wonder if you cut a piece of mat/foamcore and set it inside the strainers if that would help you!
 
MaJa said:
It's not only the screen, but the print that's off. I've tried making color adjustments in PS and I still can't seem to get it. Plus, that gets subjective. I want to scan, print, and get something pretty darn close to the original.
Click to expand...

If this started suddenly, then some program has replaced your profiles. Is it possible the Silverfast software may have done that? Also, I assume Adobe Gamma is turned off?

I sent you a PM.
 
Get ahold of a current iT8 target, scan it (with any color correction turned off and with no assigned scanner profile) and email the file to me along with reference to the target's data file and I'll run it through Monaco Profiler and send you the profile. I think that's legal. Open the file in Photoshop and make sure there is no profile attached to it. At any rate make sure you know what the setting were when you made the scan. The profile will only work for those settings. It's probably best to open any scan in Photoshop clean and assign the profile there. That way you can se what the profile does to the image. My experience is tha scanner profiles tend to hold for very long periods. There's nothing to change other than the scanner's light source over time. Or something the operator did and can't remember. I've got profiles for my flatbed scanners (an Epson 1640xl and a Scitex/Creo/Kodak iQSmart) that are 10 and 8 years old and they look identical to recent profiles.
 
Sorry guys ... been crazy, needed to get some frames done!

I was scanning on photo, not document, but that still didn't fix the problem. I'm headed to Portland today and I'm going to see if I can find an IT8 Target. Not sure if one of the camera shops might carry them. If not I will order one when I get back this afternoon!

Thanks for all the help ... I will keep you posted.
 
No luck in Portland yesterday. I talked to a guy at a camera shop who said the only way to do it was for him to come do a custom profile. He;s booked until mid Nov and he gave me a look when I said I was over 2 hours away.

I called X-Rite this morning and they said that they do not currently have a product that will calibrate a scanner. BUT, if you scan without color correction is should be right. Now that seems like a very good theory. BUT, the image looks and prints very flat.

Out of curiosity, I shop a photo with my DSLR and printed that. Just a quick shot on auto and my colors were almost perfect! Well, much better anyway. So before I throw big bucks at the scanner, I think I will look into some different options ...
 
MaJa said:
I called X-Rite this morning and they said that they do not currently have a product that will calibrate a scanner...
Click to expand...


Seriously? That's funny!

Both of the products I have of their's will using their Color Passport and their software.

What product does the guy from the camera store use?
 
Get a Colorchecker SG chart and then buy the Photoshop plugin Pictocolor software Incamera 4.5.

You scan the chart without any profile turned on and then load the image into PS and then go to Filters> Pictocolor>incamera4.5. It reads the chart and gives you a profile for that specific scanner and then you use that as your input profile.

That is for reflective art only.
 
If this link works...

http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-Digita...WWJW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319572998&sr=8-1

This will do it.

The Passport system is the same chart only smaller in a carry case geared toward photographers.

You make shot with the passport somewhere in the frame, camera set to RAW, import into the profile software and all your colors will be set for you, then you can save in whatever format you use tif. or .jpg etc
 
Jerry Ervin said:
Seriously? That's funny!

Both of the products I have of their's will using their Color Passport and their software.

What product does the guy from the camera store use?
Click to expand...

That's what they told me. They said the older products would, but not what they have now. The store guy said the same thing basically. He did not tell me what he uses.
 
framah said:
Get a Colorchecker SG chart and then buy the Photoshop plugin Pictocolor software Incamera 4.5.

You scan the chart without any profile turned on and then load the image into PS and then go to Filters> Pictocolor>incamera4.5. It reads the chart and gives you a profile for that specific scanner and then you use that as your input profile.

That is for reflective art only.
Click to expand...

Okay ... will look into this option.

Thanks guys for all the help. I think what it is is that it is scanning in "good", just not "great" ... I want to get to "great"!
 
I calibrated my Creo with this method as well as the Digital scanback in my studio.
The advantage to this is it is dependent on the type of lights you're using. Nice for me.. it already has the Northlights I use in it's tables. Makes it easy to calibrate the studio. I have one profile for the lights and one for them with polarizers attached.
 
Flat scans are usually a levels issue. After the scan, did you set the shadow/highlight end points in Photoshop. I've never seen a flat scan with the levels set.

Passport is for cameras not scanners, two different animals. IT8 or, better, a Hutch Color target are much better. A scanner profile is very simple; I cna't imagine why one would require a house call. Just scan an iT8 target, send me the file as well as a reference tp the target's data file and Bob,s your uncle. Do a Google search for a generic profile of your scanner and down load it; they're out there. Epson probably has one on their web site.

Just for the heck of it, open one of your disappointing scans in Photoshop and assign Adobe RGB 1998 to it a see what happens. Also, take a look at the histogram and check that the end points are set correctly.
 
The passport is a great tool for what it is designed for. Calibrating a scanner is not it.
 
Maja, you might also check out Vuescan

It also will calibrate a scanner using an IT8 and is a whole lot cheaper the silverfast.
 
Holey cow Dave! That's a big price difference!! Thanks!!

IT8 Target has been ordered!
 
Epson's profile is not doing it for me.

So I ordered the IT8 target. I'm thinking that VueScan will interrupt the target and create a custom profile that should make my artist happy. (Or have Warren do it for me.)

If that does not work I will turn my attention to my friend the camera. Which I may do anyway.
 
MaJa said:
Epson's profile is not doing it for me.

So I ordered the IT8 target. I'm thinking that VueScan will interrupt the target and create a custom profile that should make my artist happy. (Or have Warren do it for me.)

If that does not work I will turn my attention to my friend the camera. Which I may do anyway.
Click to expand...

Which IT8 target did you order?
 
MaJa said:
Oh geez, now you're going to tell me it's the wrong one, aren't you ...

http://www.adorama.com/IKKIT857.html
Click to expand...

Well, not sure. I've been researching this myself and haven't sorted it all out. I've heard that the Kodak target's not bad, but that it's not consistent. I've also been looking at Wolf Faust (http://www.targets.coloraid.de/) and Silverfast (http://www.silverfast.com/show/it8-targets/en.html?affid=88).

I was asking more to gather information while I scratched my head than to offer an opinion on the subject. Seems like a can of worms for the uninitiated. :(

I have heard great things about VueScan and recently purchased it, though I haven't set it up yet. It does have a starting point in the doc for scanner calibration which I intend to try: http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc16.htm#topic13

Please post findings as you go; I'll do the same.
 
On a lark, I just used EZColor to create a profile using the IT8 target it came with scanned on the 10000XL. I then used Epson Scan to scan a photo using the new profile and the standard profile. Eyeballing in Photoshop revealed no discernible differences between the two. So, in my case, it appears to have been a waste of time.
 
Steve Collins said:
Maja: Something just clicked. You and I both have the 10000XL. Mine came with x-rite's EZColor, which includes an IT8 target. Didn't you get that? If so, have you tried it?
Click to expand...

No, mine did not. It was an off lease, but it was a good deal.

Glad yours looks good! Were you having any problems to start with?
 
MaJa said:
No, mine did not. It was an off lease, but it was a good deal.

Glad yours looks good! Were you having any problems to start with?
Click to expand...

Not really, so that might explain why calibrating didn't do anything noticeable. You might call or contact Epson, tell them you have the scanner and didn't get EZColor. They might just send it to you gratis. Worth a shot.
 
Ez-Color is defunct and no longer supported. It also does not play well with windows 7. There is a work around, but I never got what I would call satisfactory results with it. On the other hand my new Color Munki has been much better, but it does not work with scanners.
 
Good to know. But EZColor did come with the scanner & it included an IT8 target (reflective), so no need to spring money for another if you have that one.
 
That review was last updated in 2003. I wouldn't trust any opinions for today based off of that.
 
Update!

I am still waiting for the target, but I went ahead and bought VueScan ($79.95). Even without the chart I am hitting the colors much better!!

Happy dance!!
 
UPDATE!

For those of you playing along at home ...

Target came Saturday. Scanned and calibrated in VueScan and Ta-Da!! I am also importing the image into PhotoShop and adjusting the levels, but that's quick and easy and my colors are RIGHT!!

The artist I was having a hard time with picked up the new prints, loved them and left me with 7 more images to scan and print!

It'll take a little bit to find all the setting in VueScan, but not too long.

THANKS YOU so much for all your help guys!!
 
Glad to hear it.

I also found out what was causing my issue. When I was opening the images in ACR it was adding +25 to the contrast as a default. No wonder my colors were so far off.

Once I got that resolved, my colors are great. Framed up both the original and the copy of 2 paintings. The customer had to ask me which one was the original. :)
 
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