Question Salvador Dali

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Photoatl

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I have a Dali print from the Song of Songs portfolio (maybe) - I know there were fakes and restrikes with forged signatures - my question if anyone know about this is _ The print paper has a watermark of a rams head (from side) - does anyone know what watermark might indicate that this may be orignial (or atleast on the right kind of paper)
I don't want to waste a few hundred dollars to find out it is a fake.....

Thanks, Bill
 
Photoatl said:
I don't want to waste a few hundred dollars to find out it is a fake.....

Thanks, Bill
Click to expand...

A few hundred? Authentic Dali prints would probably go for a bit more than that. http://www.salvadordalimuseum.org/ might be able to help with authentication, or maybe not. The forgeries from Long Island City were so good, even the pros couldn't tell they were fake.

Just did a quick search for the Song of Songs Suite, and found a gallery in Spain that has them. The images run from $3500-$5000.00 retail.
 
www.daliarchives.com
this is the best way to get his print and lithograph works autheticated. Its run by a close friend of dalis and author of "Complete Grahic Works of Salvador Dali" Albert Feild and Frank Hunter
Albert has died but Frank Hunter his appretice is still in charge

Just because they arent the original printing doesnt mean they arent worth money or authentic print as well. There are money different print run of Dali's work and if not from one could be from another and prices usually show this. I have 2 copies of "St. George" both look the same but one is on arches paper and other is on RIves paper. They are both authentic but prices vary considerable. One is from a suite of 28 prints (i think) and a print run of 2500 and the other is form a suite of 22 (i think havent looked em upt in a long time) and a print run of 5000.
 
There are known fakes of the set on the secondary market.

The rams head watermark is just the paper manufacturers branding stamp from the paper making process, like "Hand Made England" etc. its not the publishers blindstamp or estate stamp.

What is the provenance of the etching?

The catalogue raisonne reference of "Song of Songs" set is - Michler and Lopsinger, page 468-79.

It was produced in an editon of 250 on Arches paper, each signed and numbered in arabic numerals, 20 hors commerce lettered A-T, 40 on Japon paper, there were also 6 on parchment in Roman numerals. Which numbering system and what kind of paper do you have with your one? Any editions outside of documented versions above are forgeries. No AP / EA recorded.

The paper size of the authentic version should be 590 x 400 mm. Failing this measurement it will indicate that its a fake.

The originals should have stencil colouring and gold gilding, on top of the drypoints with aquatint technique. Therefore there should be a visible "plate mark" on the paper - an embossed border around the image left from the plate pressure, from the intaglio printmaking process. It should look like this - http://www.minniesland.com/images/marginalia/platemark210use.JPG

However some fakes do have false platemarks as it is not hard to reproduce.

Does yours have gold gilding and stencil colouring? You can try to have a closer look of the etching using a magnifying glass, intaglio process would not have pixels, and reproductions do. Its hard to tell from photos, I really have to see it in person to judge it.

Hope this helps.
 
As a follow up, the catalogue raisonne does not mentioned anything of lana paper mill blindstamp/the ram head with this particular set.

If there was any watermark on the paper it should be "Arches France" with the figure 8 symbol, as Japon nacre normally do not have insignias.

Without examining it in person, I am not in the position to confirm the authenticity. I would recommend contacting a specialised Dali appraiser. Christies and Sotheby’s no longer appraise and sell Dali prints executed after 1930, due to the high volume of fakes on the market.

I am sorry to raise concerns of its authenticity, try to contact the Salvador Dali archives, they will be able to provide a legitimate COA.

Good luck.
 
The general rule is - if it has a foggy provenance, do not buy it!

Especially when it comes to Dali, Chagall, Miro and Picasso prints, personally I wouldn't touch it, unless its from a reputable dealer or auction house.

The Amiel family ran a billion dollar counterfeit print business in the 70s, which continued into the 90s. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of fake prints in circulation from this one single source alone, not to mention fakes imported from eastern europe and russia.

Half of all limited edition prints on the art market are actually fakes! Just remember if it has an ambiguous provenance, do not buy it!
 
Thanks, I really hope it can be helpful to some, and save their headaches at a later date. People should really spend time in the art world and get to know more about the secondary market before they jump start in the high end. They are better off buying premium bonds than acquiring works with a hotel presentation, cruise ship type of provenance. Nobody would want to sell their real Dalis and Picassos at loss, considering they are household names, its not a specialised area. A COA almost means nothing these days.

Multiples in the high end are considered as extremely high risk. Even the most experienced dealers would think twice before they take any consignments even if the articles are genuine. I remembering hearing about this reputable dealer who sold some prints by a well know 20th century master to his clients, later on he found out that the provenance of the works may be fraudulent, he phoned all the clients immediately and refunded the purchases at his own loss, even so his business started to go down, simply because he failed his judgment, his clients stopped trusting him, reputation is the most important and yet the most fragile thing in this business. And of course vice versa, as a collector you need to be equally if not more careful.
 
Le Corb, what do you know about David Bromley's work? I used to sell some originals that I absolutely knew came directly from David, but I have heard rumours, several times in the last year that he is getting originals painted in China, and then signing them once they get here. As you can imagine, I stopped selling them as soon as I heard this! I also noticed they're all over Greys and eBay. Nowadays, I'm more than happy to just stick to custom framing. The only artist I would clear my space for these days is Ray Caesar. His work would just look too good in my gallery!
 
I remember hearing that Bromley is no longer represented by any galleries/dealers, nothing wrong with pop artists running a factory lines themselves, the actual process does not affect the authenticity itself, in some way it is a part of the artwork. Koons, Hirst, Prince and works by many others in the same category still fetch millions at auctions, although they did not "paint" the works themselves.

However this kind of mechanical production gives room to fakes to stay under cover, at the moment it is best to acquire directly from him, if yours came directly from him then it should not be a problem. eBay is never a great provenance, having said that, collectors who want to ensure the authenticity will properly contact him directly, so it is probably a good idea that you are no longer carrying the stock.

Feel free to pm me.
 
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