Running on Empty

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Jul 6, 2001
Well, it's finally happened. I've run out of glass.

Regular clear glass, that is.

I've been slowly working through a significant inventory since I made Conservation Clear my default glass about 19 months ago. About the only time I sell it is for very special situations, like the frame is going to hang in a windowless room lit entirely by a jar of fireflies in the opposite corner.

I need to decide, very soon, if I'm going to keep some regular glass around or do what I do with wood pulp mats: "Sure, I can order it for you but I'll have to charge you for the whole case."

For those who've made the switch (which is nearly everyone,) was it a clean break, or are you still using regular glass from time-to-time?
From a very reliable source….

In the US Picture Framing market, regular glass represents over 70% of glass sold……
Despite all of those who would beat me ‘round the shoulders, my primary glazing material is still clear light.

If folks are hanging their frames on interiors walls without direct exposure to sunlight or florescent lights, the old standby is what I’m still recommending.

Not much of that new fangled UV stuff for me … nosiree Bob!
I would love to have a customer base would allow me to up the price on my glass 60% just because it’s the type of glass I have decided they need. My hats off to you! I have some UV glass I occasionally sell.
I keep one box of 3240 clear on hand, but I sell UV as my default.

The bulk of my clear glass is sold to artisits who frame their own followed by people giving the framed print as a gift.

I quote the price with UV first. If they balk then I can go down by offering regular glass. I find once I give a customer a price it is easier to go down than it is to go up! Go figure.
Remember that the picture framing iduustry includes the mass merchandise market. They probally use regular glass 100% of the time.

We use regular glass and regular mat board for corporate work which is priced down to the last penny. Everything else is conservation products.
I'm trying to make the switch, but I have two problems. First is my assistant. He's a pretty bright guy, but he just can't seem to remember to score on the uncoated side. Some people can't show up for work on time; he is very reliable.

Second issue is many customers will not spend the few extra dollars for conservation glass. I won't eat the cost so they get regular clear. When I work through the cutting problem and my inventory of clear I'll drop regular clear. The customers will be fine as long as the choices start with conservation glass and move up.

I guess I have a third problem--I've got a bit of regular reflection control to move out of inventory. I figure I might offer a "no charge upgrade" type promotion Do the regular reflection control as a "bonus." Of course, if I do this I probably will try to move them into something like museum.
We stock clear, CC/UV, NG, Plexi, and Museum.

Our CC use averages about 95-97% and it's automatically our default glass in Lifesaver POS. We price clear and CC fairly close to make it an easier sell. If they question the price, we can always downgrade a bit to clear.

Future liability was a motivating factor in our decision to use it as a default glass, even though clear has a higher profit margin. I suspect this is why the big boxes use CC as a default.

Dermot: Do you think that statistic may have been a couple years old, before all the big boxes switched? They probably represent more than 50% alone, and use CC.

We've been very happy with Museum glass, but it's a hard sell because of the price.

I sell about half and half. I don't let the customer make the choice when I know it absolutely needs UV glass. But, my customer base brings in lots and lots of posters and decorator art. I am not going to shoot myself in the foot by not having the less expensive product.

But, I too have been working through an endless supply of regular quality glass that I got for free from one of those BB stores when they switched to UV only. Tons and tons of boxes that have taken like two years to use up. I'm thinking I'll never get through the NG. I had 10 boxes of the 36x48 and now I'm mercifully down to 4 although three of those are NG. It was all free though, great profit margin on that.

But I still will carry it after that is all gone too, I'll just have to start paying for it again.......
Originally posted by Jay H:
I would love to have a customer base would allow me to up the price on my glass 60% just because it’s the type of glass I have decided they need...
Two suggestions, Jay:

1. If you offer UV-filtering glass at twice the price of regular glass, it might add 10% or 15% to the price of a typical order. That's not a big deal to most customers, because it represents excellent value, which everyone understands.

2. We shouldn't decide what customers want. They should do that. Our job is to make sure they have a clear understanding of the options. If a customer asks for my recommendation, it's usually Museum Glass.

Tell the whole truth and let the customer decide. For example: (A) Fading may be the most common reason for discarding framed art. Less fading = longer useful life = more value for the dollars spent. (B) All light is damaging, but 97%+ UV-filtering glass is the best protection available at any price, against fading from light. (C) The extra price of the best-protective glass is a fraction of what it would cost to replace faded art later.

Talk about Museum Glass. Tell customers that it, too, has the best UV protection, and also reduces reflections for the best view.

Customers are concerned about getting the best possible value -- but that doesn't necessarily mean the lowest possible price.
I wonder if new shops are more likely to get the “price sensitive” customer? I’ll be perfectly honest with you all. I don’t get the type of customer you are referring to. Price resistance is very very high. Again I hope that this is because I’m new and they are “trying me out” as they often say. I hope this resistance will fade and it has with many of my repeat customers.

The local BB doesn’t even stock acid free mats. Yesterday, I double matted a picture for a lady (in 30 minutes). Then she took it back to BB because their non-glare was 17.50 and mine was 20.02. I offered UV glass in the $17 range with no luck (I will admit that I could polish up on my selling skills).

Oh this pricing is a tricky game. I hope one day I’ll win it. However I struggle to keep my costs at 30% and keep customers in my door at the same time. I have a hard time doing both. 10-15% would be a huge number to 80% of the customers I serve. It would help if the BB and other local shops would learn about some of the finer products availible to us, but right now I'm the only one that uses only acid free mats. I guess I'm just taking baby steps.
In addition to Jim's good points, consider that a 10% increase on an "average" $175.00 order is going to be $17.50. Once you get up to figures like that, or some of the higher-end jobs, the few extra bucks will be minimal.

And if you raise your prices on regular glass, the difference won't be dramatic and a lot of your customers will figure it's not that big of a deal.

But of course a lot of this could be avoided if you just price out every job with conservation or better glass and not make an issue of it. Don't even mention the price of the glass unless the customer objects. If she does, explain the benefits, give her the difference in price and your recommendation. The the ball is in her court.

By the way, I agree that the numbers dermot quoted may be skewed by the pre-framed art people.

Did she put the whole frame together or did she bring it back to you complete the job? The lengths some customers will go to save $2.50. I charge $3 for people who use their own glass. I have to clean it after all! If my customer had gone to the BB bought the glass and had me install it would have cost them $.50 more to save $2.50!

When I started out I felt that any dollar was better than no dollar coming in. Now I still have people coming in looking for the cut rate prices and the same day service. I was cutting multi-openings for the price of a single opening as well.

The people that kept me fed in the beginning are gone now. They go elsewhere to get the lowest price possible. Some of the customers I miss are going elsewhere because they percieved me as the place to go to get framing cheap, and assumed the quality was cheap as well.

Jay I guess I'm saying don't sell yourself short because your customers are cheap.
I too switched to offering Conservation Clear & Reflective Control about a year ago. My biggest problem in acceptance was me. The customers readily accept to upgraded glass.
I do keep some of the regular (in 24x36 & 32x40) available for some occasions, but seldom sell it
Not all of us are selling regular glass because we don't know how to sell right. I am perfectly comfortable offering and insisting on UV when necessary. In fact, when needed I don't even give them a choice. I guess I don't want to eliminate the choices. I too have very price sensitive customers and it is one of the few options where I can offer a lower priced substitute when UV isn't required and the customer understands the difference. I don't buy into the fact that everything needs to be framed to the nth degree. I am still comfortable giving my customers that option.

Seems like we are kidding ourselves that UV does much more than slow down the fading process. But, as I said earlier, I sell half and half.....

I'd also like to add that I don't offer paper quality mats. Occasionally I'll have to find a color in a specifier to satisfy the most cost concious of customers but I have a don't ask don't tell policy, they don't need to know they aren't being offered the cheap stuff. I just truly dislike paper mats. I just don't feel that way about the glass.....yet.

So, if any of you guys making the switch have any excess regular glass to dispose of feel free to send it my way......
There will always be price-sensitive customers - but there will also be value-sensitive customers as well. WE FRAMERS are THE EXPERTS - they are looking for advice, education and the feeling that what they're getting is worth it. It's your/our job to make the customers understand the reason and value behind UV glass. If it's important enough to frame most times it's important enough to use UV glass.

We go through 6-8 boxes of UV to each box of clear. It's our default - it's what we recomend for anything that doesn't need something better. Our regular is priced so that there's only a 10% or so price difference (and no, we're not gouging - just charging what the market will bear). We sell so little regular clear I'm thinking of making it a special order item - maybe charge a premium for it :D

Here's an idea for the price-sensitive framer: Frame up a $10 poster - half with UV and half with regular glass. Leave it in your window for about a month - then you'll see and be able to show why UV is better.

Then frame some samples with Museum and AR glazing - SHOW what better glass does for the art. You'll start to sell that glass, too.

I (I'm sorry) Less stocks reg, CC, a little ng & ngcc, and Museum.

Seems silly with pricing pressure from the BBs and internet to force the upsell.

Many customers just don't give a ****.

Why put cc on throw away art.

FYI - Less sells about 90% CC.

Here's an idea for the price-sensitive framer: Frame up a $10 poster - half with UV and half with regular glass. Leave it in your window for about a month - then you'll see and be able to show why UV is better.
No, don't do that.

Hmmm? Why not sell paper too? Just don't want to allocate the space, otherwise Less would.

Hey Ron, do you sell paper?
Why put cc on throw away art.
Why FRAME throw-away art at all?

I must be missing my share of this market. Hardly ANYONE comes in and says, "This is crap. I don't mind spending $150 for a metal frame and dry mounting, but I am NOT spending an extra $20 for UV glass. I'd prefer that it fade so I can throw it out in a few years and start over."

I hadn't pictured this as a line-in-the-sand question. If you sell regular glass, I don't think it's a sign of a character flaw.

But don't blame it on your customers.

I'll probably keep a case or two on hand and use the now-empty slots to carry some Museum and maybe some water-white glass.

Less, if I had tons of space and found myself in frequent bidding wars, I'd probably keep some pulp matboard around, but I don't and I don't so I don't.
I have worked in three shops now, two of the three primarily use uv as the norm. And UV can be plexi. The shop I am with now uses about 60% UV glass, 20% uv plexi, 10% reg plexi, then 8% museum, 2% reg glass. That is a guess, but I would say it is close to that. I have not seen a pulp matboard in our store unless a customer brought it with them. We dont sell that.

katman tell your assistant how to tell the difference between the two sides of UV. first off there is usually a sticker or it is etched on there if using tru vue glass. there is the scratch test, and if he has good eyes he/she can see the difference. i am sure other folks can tell the difference by doing something else, but dontlet that be the reason to stop you.
We utilize about 80% CC glass, 19% reg. glass and 1% plexi. About 5 years ago Reflection Control was moving well, but since then it's just collecting dust ("because it distorts the art")!

Once I used Museum. And once I used NO glazing (for prints).....that was tough to do, but the customer insisted and signed for it!
WOW ! A lot of good information here for us newbies. In the short time I've been framing here's my newbie opinion. I learned from a framer (?) that was in the business for 30 years. Didn't teach me anything about the different glass available.
I learned on my own.
Now cc is my first recommendation. (There are always exceptions). Statistically, 80% of your sales come from 20% of your customers. (any business) If you educate those 20%, 80% of your job is done. :eek:
Again, there are a lot of good ideas here. I also do photo restoration in my shop. ( as well as large format digital printing) I have a display of some photos and a signed art piece. When I tell the framing customer that this photo restoration customer just spent $X amount of money on restoring his faded photos it's a no brainer. And also the faded signature art example, its a no brainer. Remember: pictures speak louder than words.
As Framer Dave said earlier, raise your regular glass by a % amount (you decide) and the difference will not be that much. Wy make a deal out of the difference...If you tell the customer that you are using conservation glass then they will say ok, simple as that. if it is not that simple then you need to sharpen up your sales skills.

Ron, question for you..How much glass (regular) did you have in stock that it took you 19 months to get rid of it after CC was your standard default? That is a long time to sit on any type of inventory or you had a lot of that sitting around.

Why frame "throw away art"? Because if you don't someone else will. If that is what people want then give it to them. You have to think outside of the box, and get off your soapbox and realize that you are losing business if you do not think and act like a retailer. GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT AT A FAIR PRICE.

Conservation glass is on 85% of our framed pieces yet I also sell at least 5 cs each of 24x36 and 36x48 regular every week. Stop thinking that you are too good to sell regular and the customers who want regular are not good enough for you. unless you are my competitor, then keep on sending them to me!
"...raise your regular glass by a % amount (you decide) and the difference will not be that much."

Does that work on frames? Can I just add on a $40 charge on all frames to make closed corners more attractive?

"If you tell the customer that you are using conservation glass then they will say ok..."

Our Reg is 8x cost, CC is 6x, & Museum is 3x.

I always quote CC, and partner 50/50. She also has a bad habit of showing and stocking paper mats. Even though our factor on paper & alpha are the same.

Point is with our average frame job at $240, the glass diff or Reg/CC is less than a Jackson. So if the customer has a tighter budget, they usually look at the frame or mat to adjust the price.

We have enough people on fixed incomes that we will probably never give up paper mats or reg glass.

As for NG, I just used the last sheet of a 24x30 (6-lites) that was placed in the bin in 1997. We sold 9 orders last year with NG.....

It's all in how you present it. Offer UV as an "upgrade" and you won't sell it much. Present it as the standard and you sell more.

Back before we bought the gallery (working in small shops that we didn't own)UV was always offered as an upgrade and we sold maybe 10-15% of our orders with UV. After buying the gallery and realizing that every penny was ours (and wanting to survive) we made UV the standard -- and we sell more UV clear than anything else.

Like Baer says - the higher the ticket the lower the resistance.
We sell a lot of nice readymades as 'sale savers', and on almost all of those, we convince the customer to 'swap the glass out' to protect the artwork. So we have an ongoing source of regular glass. (no, we don't give credit for the regular glass. If they ask, they can take the regular glass home) It almost always gets sold to customers who are buying glass only. Just say Betty's mantra "It's like sunscreen for your art" What a brilliant phrase that is! Easy for the customer to understand what they are getting. And if you have Tru-Vue's tassel display on the counter and tell them what Museum would cost, why, CC looks CHEAP! (and you will sell some more Museum, too!)
I use clear on our Poster framing special - if they want to upgrade to CC, they pay the upgrade. It is the only time I use clear anymore; I find the the price difference negligible and during th sale I say this is the lease cost in glass that we recommend and I use my CC and reg glass display to educate them on the difference. I have not had any resistence; I do have an occassional customer that comes in and wants a regular piece of glass cut to take home and we cut it out of our stock for the PFS.

I have found that the "education" piece has been worth the time spent. I still can't convince artists to use it, and that is an irritation unto itself...

my 2 cents


p.s. I thought you were out of gas, as in energy to keep framing :D Guess that's how I have been feeling lately - this rainy weather is killing the moods around here!
Tim, I was in the habit of stocking my default glass in every available size from 8x10 through 36x48. 19 months ago, it was regular clear so, yes, I had a lot of it to work through after I made the switch. I didn't realize I could have just loaded it in the van and taken it out to Emibub.

I still think that "framed" and "throw-away" are mutually-exclusive terms, but I understand what you and Less are talking about. I'm just being difficult because I am, in fact, running out of gas.
Despite my earlier post, whenever reasonable I try to “upsell” to CC.

However, to me it makes little sense to dry mount an original untreated newspaper article with Archival Mount onto Rag Foamboard and glaze it with UV glass. Regardless … it’s gonna yellow … period.

How do you explain to that customer when they return a few months later that despite all the expensive treatment you charged them for, their newsprint has lost its luster?

For some things, CC is overkill.
Originally posted by Elaine:
I find the the price difference negligible
Maybe I should check for another supplier for TruVue. I pay three times as much for CC as I do for Premium clear. That is a huge difference.

Should we talk real money here? I pay $25 a box delivered for clear, $74.00 a box for CC. What multiplier is "industry standard" for glass markup?
I don't use a multiplier per se, I try to figure out a profit amount per case, ie $200 for reg and $300 for CC. Then figure cost per lite and profit per lite and that's my price.

ie $24 per case for reg 3240 (6 lites) = $4.00 per lite. $210 per case profit = $35.00 per lite profit so $39 for reg.

$75 per CC = 75/6 or $12.50 per lite plus profit $300/6 = $50 total of 62.50 for CC

If I tried to make the same profit per case the price difference would only be $8.50 then your customers won't complain as much.

ie $200 per case 3240 would be $39 reg $47.50 CC
$300 per case reg would be $54 CC would be $62.50.

I guess I'm saying it doesn't matter what you pay it's would you make per case that you should worry about.
Thanks BobD! That is a totally differant way of looking at pricing. I have always thought of a multiplier approach. (cost x markup + labor = retail) That really gives me something to ponder over the next few hours. I'll plug in the numbers and see what happens to COGS.
I'd like to claim credit for the pricing method, but I got it from the "Pricing Custom Framing" book from the PPFA library. That formula included a wastage figure and other info. But the condensed version works for me!
I love these discussions about pricing. We all tend to talk about them as if we were selling in a vaccuum.

Where does the market come into play?

Doesn't the consumer get a vote in this decision?

If the depth of your analysis is one page of a legal pad, I guarantee that you are not pricing your product accurately for maximum profit.

The only people that can make that type of formula-based pricing work seem to be governmental contractors (think $242 toilet seat)
Bob, I think several, maybe most, of the posters here are interpreting their markets and listening to their customers when the make decisions about what kinds of glass to feature and what to charge for it.

I was getting what I felt was an acceptable rate of resistance to my prices, but I noticed that changed when I quoted individual components rather than a full package. In other words, most, but not all, people thought my finished frame prices were acceptable and competitive, but would complain bitterly if they just needed an empty mat or some dry mounting. Conversely, people would come to me for a piece of clear glass instead of going to any one of the fine glass shops in town.

After tracking this for WAY too long, I concluded that my glass prices were much too low and my matting and mounting prices were too high.

Now I get a uniform and acceptable rate of whining/resistance to ALL my prices, whether it's a full package or just a portion of it.

I'm happy, they're happy and I hope you're happy. :D
Ron-No need to be so defensive. If your pricing/product selection scheme work for you, then that's all that really matters, isn't it?

I'm not sure why you felt so compelled to defend your system.
But, I am amazed that you feel most here know their market and understand their clientele. If that were truly the case, explain why the averages are so low for our industry?

The truth is way too many get their Paula Abdulesque advice from posters like above mentioned and think it is the answer.

Can you imagine anuone that gets paid to make pricing decisions, in this or any other industry, using the stuff we see postulated here over and over?

Think out of the box? We need to think, first, out of our stores and second, out of our industry.

What in the world makes us think that because we are framers that we have solid, valid business principles?

Get some business professionals to validate most of the stuff you see here. You are more likely to see emibub vote for George W.

Ron-no need to get so defensive-if it works for you-fine.

But, most of the stuff we see here just won't find it's way into the Harvard Business School or many high profile, successful shops.

Take my critique as offered-We simply cannot continue to business as usual.

But, do you really care if I am happy?
Sure I want you to be happy, Bob. I'm one of those 60's hold-outs that wants everyone to be happy.

I thought I was giving an example of doing exactly what you've been suggesting. You're not making me defensive but you make me feel dense and I don't like that feeling. (It's not your fault.)

I guess this makes one more reason to go to Atlanta and take some more classes.

Oh, and when I said that many or most of us are interpreting our markets and listening to our customers, I didn't say we're doing it correctly.

But when someone says, "My customer just won't pay that much," that sounds like a market interpretation to me, even if it's an incorrect one.

My "sytem" isn't a system at all. Because I work alone, I talk to every customer that walks through the door. If too many walk out when I give them a price, I start to wonder why. If they smile and look relieved, I worry about that as well. All the formulas in my home-made POS are based on the feedback I get from customers as well as the twice-a-year price increases I get from my vendors.

Humor me and explain how that's different from what you're suggesting.
I'm sorry if my posting insulted your business practices Mr Carter. I realize I don't have the business experience that you have, just trying to share what has worked for me. Good god I am not purporting to be an expert just sharing my own business ignorance and hoping that others can learn from my (multiple) mistakes

After getting a little miffed after reading your posts I remembered HannahFates post saying that "taking offence is something you do to yourself" so I am annoyed that I did it again to myself.

Emibub don't worry I am with you and the majority of the popular voters of 2000. I didn't vote for GW then and won't vote for him now either! Oh yeah and I will vote this time around again! To paraphrase "steal my vote once, shame on you; steal my vote twice, shame on me!"
Sure, Ron. No problem, be happy.

I think the most important thing you said was the "My customer won't pay that much" as a market interpretation,I view it as a marketing failure.

For example, we all should have some price resistance. If you never get resistance, you are too low. If you get too much, you are too high.

But, something attracted this client to your store and they were dissappointed and probably didn't buy anything.

What created this negative experience? And before someone brightie suggests that this happens to all of us, we are using this not as an exception, but more common than we would like(Hence the statement "My customers won't...).

Maybe you location created an abundance of that type of client.

Maybe your prices are sky high

Maybe your salesmanship sucks.

Maybe a hundred other reasons and maybe they are all correct

But, no formula in the world will provide a meaningful answer.

I talk often about knowing your market. How does a formula help in that arena?

Market knowledge is only one part of the equation; so is some convoluted formula. None are accurate by themselves as pricing is dynamic-it needs to change.

Ron-I know you apply more to this than most and you really aren't a good example of the problem. Except that we could use you as an example of doing more than most.

Now, if you could convince even more people to do even more of what you do....

Now, that ought to make everyone happy

[ 07-29-2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Bob Carter ]
We sell a 16 x 20 regular lite for $4.44 and a CC lite for $20.00. That's a big difference and the CC is hardly just a little bit more.

We do art printing and have looked into the problem of print fading. Good quality prints (good paper and pigmented inks) will last framed under regular class for around 80 years before noticable fading (south facing window) according to the Wilhelm Imaging Reaearch Institute and that includes color photographs printed on good paper with pigmented inks. I'm not worried about our prints fading in 80 years.

I've got etchings and silkscreens that have been framed for 25 years and they haven't faded noticably. I get the feeling that fading is an issue more with cheap reproductions than quality images. From what I can gather, ozone is more of a problem with figitive inks than light. I'm sure we've all seen the faded print that's mostly cyan, cyan being the least fugitive of the cmyk inks. I think fading is more an issue of the quality of the materials a print is made with than how it's glazed when framed. There's no doubt that color photographs will fade over time but what's true of chemically produced photographs isn't true of good quality images. Color photographs, even in dark storage, fade fairly quickly.
C'mon now BobD. Now, you're getting defensive too.

I think simplistic advice can be very damaging because someone might follow it to the letter.

Don't become so offended because I thought it important to make sure people made a more fully comprehensive approach to pricing.

Now, please, if any or all of what I said is incorrect, please say so. If you are correct, I promise not to take offense.

If we are all about sharing, I thought my sharing was important also.

We don't have to agree to share do we?
Mr Carter,

Sorry it has taken so long to get back, I was looking for the Graemlin with the egg on its face!
Can't find it anywhere.

You are of course right in that we all need to share our opinions!

Got to get back to work, again, been a busy week thank god
Need more like these!
Would a face on the egg do?

Can't we all just get along?
"...raise your regular glass by a % amount (you decide) and the difference will not be that much."

Does that work on frames? Can I just add on a $40 charge on all frames to make closed corners more attractive?
Could it work on frames, yes if done right but you are comparing apples (all frames) to oranges (closed corners) so I would say no it would not work in that case.

If you tell the customer that you are using conservation glass then they will say ok..."

If you ask the customer if they want regular or conservation they will pick regular, conservation sounds expensive. Try closing your sale like this:
Your total comes to $XXX.XX and thast includes this Closed corner frame ;) , 3 mats, mounting and a conservation glass that blocks out 97% of UV rays that could cause your print to fade over time. Should we go with that?

Notice, no choice and your customer knows that you understand that they care about what you are framing because you don't want it to fade. If your customer has a problem with price it is not the glass.

As Bob said earlier, for those who say my customer won't pay for.... You need to look at your Marketing and sales skills amoung other possible things. Your marketing is what should bring people in the door and apparently you are not bringing the right people in the door. If you are getting the right people in the door then your sales skills need to be worked on. DO you believe in the conservation glass product? If not you won't sell it.

My prices on 16 x 20 regular, 9.75 on CC 16.25. Who is right and who is wrong..depends on the market. In my market you are giving away the regular and making good money on CC. But ask someone else and they will have a different say about it and think we are both giving it away, which I am sure that both of us are happy with the profit.
I'm sorry to threadjack here but

"steal my vote once, shame on you; steal my vote twice, shame on me!"

Come on, it's been 4 years. Gore lost when the votes were counted, and recounted, and recounted again. And the scarey cops with the big dogs keeping people away from the polls? Not one bit of credible eveidence ever came up.

Now what does this have to do with the price of glass?
Come on now everybody. I didn't mean to start something like this. I would never follow anyone's pricing to the letter. I liked the different view BobD had on pricing. I can't believe that I am cheaper on CC than Warren Tucker. My prices are 4.50 for 16x20 Premium and 11.75 for 16x20 CC. One thing I learned from this discussion is my CC prices are too low. Will my clear prices change? Probably not.

Blame Ron, he started all this!

My prices are 4.50 for 16x20 Premium and 11.75 for 16x20 CC.
$12 and $21, respectively here, but I haven't figured out a way to charge for the ones I bounce on the floor.

As others have mentioned, if the clear glass is outrageous, there is less resistance to the CC price.

I'm sure SOMEBODY mentioned this.