Problem Rippling of large mat with multiple openings

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Just finished a huge job for American Legion. Each frame 32x34 has 20 openings. I hinged the pix with tape and did not attach mat to backing board to allow for expansion and contraction. The mats are now rippling and I think that humidity in the building is the problem. Any suggestions for problem fix. I have never had this happen in all my years of framing, but then I have never had a job this large. There are over 50 frames. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks!:help:
 
What kind of backing?
Glass or plexi?
Where are you located?
32" x 34" is not really that large.
Not attaching the mat to the backing may be the problem.
In my opinion, you don't need to "allow for the expansion and contraction" between the mat and the backing.

We just did a group of 120 opening mats with photos and windows for the names without that problem.
We have done many of these same groups before (pictures of nurses with separate windows for their names).
These frames were about 40" x 60".

No rippling, but it's pretty dry in AZ. except in July, August and Sept.
 
What are you using as a backing? Do you have spacers between the mat and glass?
 
Without seeing them I'd say the backing is the cause. Sounds like you need a modicum of pressure from behind.
One way I have used in the past is to stick a piece of matboard to the undermat. I'm thinking for this size about 12"sq. Cut off the corners - maybe an inch. When the back goes on and is fixed in, it has to curve around this piece and will apply a little bit of force to the edges thus keeping the mat pressed against the glass.
 
Perhaps you didn't allow enough room for expansion of the mats. Take one apart and see how tightly it is fitted. You may have to trim a bit off if you now have a tight fit.
Please elaborate on materials used. Kind of mat, backing and glazing might help.
I would also resolve this quickly before the mats set in the cockled attitude and require replacement rather than adjustment.
 
kwise said:
The mats are now rippling and I think that humidity in the building is the problem. Any suggestions for problem fix. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks!:help:
Click to expand...

If the mat and backing have 1/8 inch clearance in frame then I would say the Humidity is your problem.
They need to be taken out flattened and brought back to a stabil humidity. Then seal edges of glass, mat, backing package with tape. Use corplast as backing and a vapor barrier as a dust cover that will help with the fluctuation in humidity. This how we make packegs that are going to be hung in bathrooms and basements. In batrooms we always us plexi to cut down on condensation on in side of frame package.
 
I really appreciate all the input. Here are some answers to your questions. I am in Tennessee. Humidity is a problem. I used glass as glazing and Crescent and MDC matboard. Because of their budget I used cardboard for backing. I have just taken one apart and inspected it. The mat fits well in the frame and there is not a tight fit. I put extra support in the last 30 I did but some of those seem to be buckling as well. There are 14 that need immediate attention. I have never had this problem and it has really upset me. The building where the museum is located is an old factory building that the city and county converted into office space. I have told the organizers of the project that I think humidity is the problem, but of course they aren't willing to hear that right now. My reputation is on the line and I want to fix this. The comment about extra pressure with mat: please elaborate a little bit for me. Again, thank you all so much. Oh, and yes the pictures were all kept flat and no spacers were used.
 
What Wally said.
I have found that when mats wave, wobble and ripple, it is usually because everything is fit too snugly in the frame. This could be that the mat boards are cut a titch too large. It also could mean that the backing isn't rigid/thick enough and/or is also cut a smidge too large. I have also found that when the guts are fit too tightly, meaning that the glazing points or staples are pinching everything up against the glass or spring clips in shallow metal frames, the mat will give way.
We also dust seal everything, we run 3M 810 tape "sealing" the package and slowing down moisture back-n-forth. That would help, as well.
I have never found that attaching the mat to the backing helps or hurts. It just makes it harder to undo later.

edie the dustsealed goddess
 
Cardboard is for making boxes and should NEVER be used in a frame. Start off switching that out to Foamcore and I would glue the mat down to the backing especially in the small cross sections between the photos. I would then put these in a cold press while they dried.

You could also use pressure plates which is where you cut a sheet of FC about 2" smaller all around the frame size. Glue that to the back of the backing board and then add another sheet of FC or flaw matboard that is then stapled into the frame the pressure from the mat will push the backing/mat package forward almost like a spring.
 
kwise said:
I put extra support in the last 30 I did but some of those seem to be buckling as well.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this? Another backing?

Is the backing waving, too?

Cardboard is gonna be used in backing in tight budget jobs. It just is. Can you use two sheets of cardboard and cross the flutes? Also I would check the inevitable natural bow of the cardboard and make sure to place it so that the bows work in your favor. I would dust seal the glass, mat and one cardboard backing. Then add cardboard backing number two behind that and not include it in the dust sealing.

edie the mayberipplingisokay goddess
 
When we talk about fitting too tightly, we usually think of the height and width dimensions, but remember that hygroscopic paperboards in a frame expand in thickness as well as in height and width.

If the fitting points are installed with a lot of downward pressure, or if an aluminum sectional frame is fitted with springs, then the tightness of the stacked assembly in the frame could prevent necessary movement to accommodate expansion & contraction cycles. That can have the same unfortunate consequences as cutting the materials too large for the frame.
 
Framing Goddess said:
What do you mean by this? Another backing?

Is the backing waving, too?

Cardboard is gonna be used in backing in tight budget jobs. It just is. Can you use two sheets of cardboard and cross the flutes? Also I would check the inevitable natural bow of the cardboard and make sure to place it so that the bows work in your favor. I would dust seal the glass, mat and one cardboard backing. Then add cardboard backing number two behind that and not include it in the dust sealing.

edie the mayberipplingisokay goddess
Click to expand...

I used an extra strip of backing down the middle of the frame backing. The back is not waving. I took one apart today and re did it. I made sure nothing fit too tight braced the back well and for good measure put a pack of dessicant between the backing and dust cover
 
One question. How wide are the strips of card between the photos?

I usually work on a minimum of 30mm or a bit over an inch which is fairly strong and allows room for a good wipe of ATG down the centre . I have seen some where the separation is barely half an inch and that is far too fragile in my opinion.

If cost is a factor (isn't it always?) why not back up the cardboard with a bit of MDF?
 
artfolio said:
... why not back up the cardboard with a bit of MDF?
Click to expand...
MDF is a chemically 'dirty' material to close into a frame, which can cause reactions with other framing materials and perhaps with the images framed. If preservation is not an issue, then fluted polypropylene or standard foam board would be better choices and easier to work with, as well.
 
We have been having a problem with a specific Crescent matboard. When the mats were left overnight in the shop (where the temp goes down to 58 at night), we would get bubbles or ripples. Crescent says that there was not enough glue used in that production run. We are very concerned about the previous 50 we have already sold!
 
Framing Goddess said:
What do you mean by this? Another backing?

Is the backing waving, too?

Cardboard is gonna be used in backing in tight budget jobs. It just is. Can you use two sheets of cardboard and cross the flutes? Also I would check the inevitable natural bow of the cardboard and make sure to place it so that the bows work in your favor.
edie the mayberipplingisokay goddess
Click to expand...


In my humble opinion, NO job is so "tight on budget" as to justify using cardboard. It just not an option in my shop, period. And I wouldn't consider myself a super conservator by any means.

stevetheneverusecardboardanddon'tallowitinmyshopguy:rolleyes:
 
I agree with the backing being used being cardboard. It will react much faster in humid conditions than foam core. Foam core in this size costs me less than $1 more per sheet.
 
Framed ct, which mat is that? I just found the bubble problem with 9500 and I've bought a bunch for a project.

(I thought I posted this already. :(
 
Jim Miller said:
MDF is a chemically 'dirty' material to close into a frame, which can cause reactions with other framing materials and perhaps with the images framed. If preservation is not an issue, then fluted polypropylene or standard foam board would be better choices and easier to work with, as well.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with MDF. What is it?
 
kwise said:
I am not familiar with MDF. What is it?
Click to expand...
Medium Density Fiberboard is an engineered wood product made of ground wood fibers combined with wax and resin, then formed into sheets. In addition to plenty of lignin, MDF can contain other reactive chemical elements associated with the wax, resin, and minimally-processed wood fibers.

Some framers use MDF as a backing board because it is cheap and rigid. However, foam board or fluted polypropylene would be lighter-weight, chemically less-invasive choices.
 
framed ct said:
We have been having a problem with a specific Crescent matboard. When the mats were left overnight in the shop (where the temp goes down to 58 at night), we would get bubbles or ripples. Crescent says that there was not enough glue used in that production run. We are very concerned about the previous 50 we have already sold!
Click to expand...

The mats that rippled were crescent. The other mats were MDC and did not ripple. Just finished putting extra backing in them. (Foamboard)
 
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