reversible adhesive mounting

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rdanielson

Grumbler in Training
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I was wondering if there were any suggestions on reversible mounting adhesives other than hinging. I like what I have read about Artcare Restore but would like to mount these pieces directly onto mat board. Are there other adhesives? How about Buffer Mount? Is this reversible?
 
I have tried Buffer Mount. Didn't work well for me.

Fusion 4000 also claims to be reversible. Yeah right!

So far, ArtCare Restore is the only product I have tried that is easily and completely reversible.

There may be others out there, so experiment with something that is OK to destroy.

If you find a product that works for mounting to mat board, please let us know.
 
I have tried ( unsucessfully) but when I read this thread I remembered Rebecca telling me in a reply that even Japanese Hinges aren't completely water reveserable as many think.

I hope Rebecca sees this and corrects any inaccuracies i may be makeing or someone else can find the comment in the archives. but even the best mounting methods can present problems that we don't expect.

I really wonder if anything is COMPLETELY reversable but I would suspect that wheat paste and hinges ( along wit Micro dot application) is the best method.
But then i can't even remember what rebecca told me ,right here on TFG.LOL
BUDDY
 
I'm loving artcare restore more and more everyday. It's really close to becoming my default mounting.
 
Hi Buddy

Yes, that was me! I think adhesive reversibility is one of those Plato ideal things - the idea is there, but we'll never really reach it.

The wheat starch paste thing is, that some papers are so weak or fluffy or whatever that, for all intents and purposes, the paste and Japanese paper can't really be removed, though in theory they could be. The good news is both materials age well so it is not normally dangerous to leave them in place.

I've even read that Post it Notes leave a residue.

In my world, no pressure sensitive or heat activated adhesive would be considered truly reversible, with the exception of the Lascaux HV 360 and 498 (I think 498) because their tackiness in inherent in the molecule, not as an add-in plasticiser. But, ask me in 50 years, I may change my mind there too. ;)

Rebecca
 
Whats your opinion on the Restore Rebecca?

Jerry how can you get it much cheaper? I mean its about $2 cheaper than A/F FC and about $4 cheaper than regular FC.
 
Hi Jay -

I don't have enough info to have a worthwhile opinion. Unless someone analyzes the ingredients and a conservation scientist can give educated opinion on longevity/continued reversibility, it's all a guessing game. And even then the manufacturers can change the ingredients without telling any one.

The rule of thumb would be not to use it on anything of any value, and that is a subjective thing too, subject to change.

Rebecca
 
Artcare Restore is what I'll be mounting my maps & prints on for sale in an antique mall.

I'd be keenly interested in hearing from others where the low prices can be found. Are case lots the only way to go?

Thinking of smart buying for smart selling. How can this info be found out?
 
Hi Deaconsbench -

Why wouldn't you shrink wrap them or some such method that is intended to be temporary and known to be reversible? I'm asking because if you're selling maps and prints in an antique mall, presumably they have some value if only age??

Rebecca
 
Judge by my answer to see if I'm understanding your question correctly.

I'll be matting and framing these as an end product for sale. I want them to be flat in the presentation, and Artcare Restore seems to be the best avenue to reach that look.

I've seriously considered going the paste and japanese paper route, but some of these collectible papers have waves, ripples, bends in them. I'm desiring the flat, finished look.

Thanks, Rebecca. I'm still in the 'crawling' stages, and look toward folks as yourself to help me make some sense of it all.
 
To give you an idea of some of what I acquire:

A 1668 book print of Daniel interpreting the King's dream. It was torn from the original book, so it has a jagged edge on one side - it's wavy from age - and the edges are a little frayed.

daniel1668.jpg
 
Rick B (can't remember the spelling, sorry) did some independent testing of the Restore board in conjunction with FACTS. If I remember the results correctly, the claims of full reversibility with no transfer of the adhesive to the piece mounted was upheld. This was over a short time period and the long term effects are not known.
My personal experience with Restore has not been all that good, but I was mounting R/C photos for the most part. There was irregular bonding, and reversing the failed mount was not as easy for me as it was for the demonstrator at the trade show.

Buffermount is removable, but the adhesive does penetrate the fiber of the piece being mounted and is not completely reversible.
 
db,
There are probably some purists that would claim that you had ruined the piece by mounting it. Conventional wisdom does not incorporate the new technology of the Restore board when dealing with vintage ephemera. You, better than anyone, know the value of the pieces you are mounting, so you know the potential loss should there be some question of the mount in the future. If you choose to use a technology that is not fully tested over time, you should probably disclose that information to your clients if the piece you are selling has anything more than decorative value.
That being said, there are still vendors of like product that present the pieces mounted to chip board with mucilage, so I suppose it is up to the individual to decide where the line is drawn.
But...your sense of aesthetics in insisting the pieces be flat may be compromising the value of the pieces because of the technology necessary to achieve that goal.
It is a conundrum.
 
Making these old pieces perfect and flat is like putting a mannikin's arm on a damaged ancient Greek statue. Wavy and rippled old maps (or whatever) look beautiful wavy and rippled. Learn to love the waves and ripples. If you want the "flat, finished look", photograph them and print them on new paper.
 
If a tire manufacturer says the tires are safe for my car, then who am I to argue with them? If the tires prove to be unsafe, the liability rests entirely on the manufacturer that made the claims and not the shop that installed them.

Bainbridge has made the claim that the mounting is reversible and archival. After some experimentation, I agree with their claims. They even go further to have a specific list of items that should and shouldn't be mounted with Restore and there is some notation about RC photos if memory serves me. Many of those items can or could have significant value (LE Prints is one listed).

While I totally understand the "error on the side of safety" approach, its just not practical in the day to day running of a frame shop. Artcare restore seems to be a great compromise. Sure there just isn't enough information to accurately judge the long-term effects. That’s fair but I think that if there was a significant risk then they wouldn't make any claims at all and leave the Framer at risk of slander.

Instead they say:

“With Artcare Restore, you can safely reverse art to its exact, pre-mounting condition. The non-permeable adhesive meets all archival standards and can be completely removed from the art. Artcare Restore’s breakthrough adhesive activates at low temperatures and short dwell times, making it safe for most art….Artcare’s patented technology actively protects art from the harmful effects of outgassing and from damaging pollutants—something no other foamboard can do!”

It not only sounds safe, it sounds actually good for the art. From what I can tell, the very worst scenario would mean that the art would have to be taken to a skilled conservator that might actually be glad to see it mounted to Restore as opposed to duct taped! Thankfully we have some really good conservators. If the Mona Lisa has held up as well as it has on crappy wood then surely this foam board won’t be the total demise of art.
 
Originally posted by JoePopp:
Learn to love the waves and ripples.
Click to expand...
Working in a museum setting may be a little different than being a 'retail framer'. The majority of the public will not purchase an item if it doesn't have a finished look.

I have a customer than collects old maps and documents. Her collection is valued at over a million dollars. When the ArtCare Restore product came out, she done extensive research on it as did I. We came to an agreement that it was the best product and technique for her based on the 'look' she wanted.

My only point is, to the average person and even a lot of collectors, the wavy look of the finished product is a hard pill to swallow.
 
Count me as another who does not understand why paper pieces need to be displayed and sold perfectly flat.

I happen to like the waves, ripples and bends in old paper. And that is how I display these items in my shop- as they are.

And I probably would not buy something old that has been mounted flat.

db, I aspire to educate my customers on the nature of paper, old and new, and how to preserve it. Displaying and selling them with all their character intact AND celebrated would be a great way to start.

Just my opinion, as a collector of antique works on paper.

On topic:
I have used Artcare Restore with mixed results. I have used it mostly for black and white photos on fiber based paper. Sometimes they stay flat, sometimes they don't. I haven't had to reverse it yet.
I have not yet used buffermount.

edie the ephemeracollector goddess
 
I don't mean to be rude but rather you like the look or not should be a different topic.
 
Jay, I understand your point, but the analogy is errant. The tire manufacturer has the DOT and probably several other goverment agencies and the competition breathing down their necks (remember the Firestone recall).
Bainbridge is marketing their product on data from their own testing, and there is no regulation over their product. This isn't to say that it is not all they claim it to be, but I would think with all the mis and dis-information foisted upon us as framers (think "acid-free"), we would be a little circumspect in embracing all new technology on the word of the manufacturer alone.

btw, I am on the side of letting things be pretty much as they are. IMHO, issues of preservation aside, making an antique document conform to 2 dimensions takes away some of it's charm and authenticity.
But as my Dad was wont to say "In matters of taste, there is no dispute". Of course he said it in Latin....anybody have the translation?
 
"Imatterum tastus disputum notus"
Click to expand...
LOL !
Actually, I think that means, "No matter how delicious, be aware of the spit!".... I think this derives from a reference to the flavoring in envelope glue. (I don't think that constitutes a reversible adhesive.)
:cool: Rick
 
I have also dry mounted things on the demand of the customer, but I always try to educate them on the inherent beauty of the warp and ripple. My rule of thumb is, if it doesn't need adhesive don't use adhesive and if it does need adhesive use as little as possible of the least damaging choice. But in the end, it is up to the "informed" customer what is done with thier items.
 
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