Tim Hayes.

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Aug 31, 2001
Westbury Hotel Retail
Westbury Hotel Retail

Vornado Pays $113M for Stores
By Barbara Jarvie
Last updated: March 24, 2005 12:55pm

NEW YORK CITY-In its second major retail acquisition in less than two weeks, Vornado Realty Trust acquired the 17,000-sf retail condominium portion of the former Westbury Hotel for $113 million. The blockfront at Madison Avenue between 69th and 70th streets is currently 100% occupied. Luxury retailers Cartier, Chloe and Gucci have leases that expire in 2018.

“This is prime, prime, prime retail space,” says Faith Hope Consolo, chairman, retail leasing and sales division for Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate. “Space like this very rarely comes to the market.” She said the pricing was comparable to what’s available in the retail marketplace. “That’s the market. Rents there are going at $850 or $900 per sf.”
And I'm fretting $13.50.

Were you looking into the space?
Hey, guys-Rent is a proportional expense. If $800sq/ft can get you $3200sq/ft in sales...

While this is an extreme, look at those willing to step up. Wouldn't you love to have neighbors like them?

And, notice, it's 100% leased for many years

Our good friend, Tim, can attest to the value of getting as good a space as he could afford. I'll bet that space he has is a lot more affordable now, though.

Never view rent as something to limit; always view it as the single most important decision that will predict your potential
Hi Baer-Yea, but wouldn't you be willing to pay more in rent if you knew you could get more in sales? Most would. Gucci and Carter sure think so

Rent/sq ft is normally stated in annual numbers as are sales/sqft.

And rest assured that those people making site selection understand the dynamics and mechanics of these numbers exceptionally well. kind of like if their jobs depended upon it
Originally posted by Bob Carter:
....Rent/sq ft is normally stated in annual numbers as are sales/sqft....

Normally least here in the midwest, where rents are still somewhat sane, however on the West Coast and NY area, I do hear rents quoted in monthly terms, as the figures climb.


That's what normally means

I do remember when flooring was sold by the sq/yd

Now, it is often sold by the sq/ft

Do you think the lower number is designed to be perceptual
Bob, Floor COVERINGS, such as carpet and sheet goods are sold & quoted by the square YARD.
Pergo, tile, hardwoods and such are sold & quoted by the square FOOT.

Home Depot is quoting hardwood, laid: $11.79/ft. Times the 9 ft in a yard... $106.11/Yard... as appossed to high-end wool carpet that will last 30 years and still look good if you don't have kids, and sloppy dogs.... $38-45/YARD

In this town the youth are foaming at the mouth hardwood floor crazy... If they only did the REAL math... Oak "R" factor (insulation rate) is only .65, where a Ansel Nylon low pile berber with 1/2" foam pad is R-4.5. Great to know on a cold morning.

Of course, in Arizona, you're looking for R-25 walls and R-75 roofs... and about 20 tons of AC. :D

You're right, it's all perception. When a lady on Saturday wasn't sure she was getting good value at $348 on her framing... I told her I'd make her a deal. Her face lit up, and she was all ears.

I told her that I needed to buy some new tires. Her husband owns a Less Schwab store, and I'd do her frame job for free, if he gave me my new tires. She flipped open her phone and got hubby on the line... I told her the tires... he did NOT ask how much the framing was; but just told her to pay me. Someone who KNOWS, doesn't PRECIEVE.

Cartier, Tiff, and the likes has their merchandize produced in the "low rent" district or "off shore", can you imagine how much merchandize you would have to pump over those kinds of footage rents to even break even?

I'm building a building with 12,000 sq ft so it's not your average size project.

However, in my materials purchases and bids, it is all dased on sq ft.

This would include, wood flooring, bamboo flooring, (real) linoleium/marmoleioum, vinyl, carpeting, or hud carpeting.

Instalation is also based on the foot, and not the yard.

So you may want to revise the authoritative stance, and leave a little room for difference of opinion.

For that matter, very little is priced by the yard at all. Concrete is charged by the number of trucks.

I think the only yard pricing reference has been to the size of the roll off.
Marc I am sure that your building is going to be "simply Marvelous'. But I think even Square footage of Houses and buildings can be subject to Local standards.

When I visited my daugter in San Diego her apartment had two bedrooms ,bath ,dining and liveing room ,even a fireplace and private closed in patio area.However it could have all fit in my small shop.My daughter was GLAD to find it though ,at about 2-3 times what it might cost around here..

Down here in the N'awlins area My 1550 sq .ft. shop rents for $700/month and i am looking to cut cost. My home Is just over 2700 square feet ,and while it is very nice it is no Palatial estate by any means.

As amtter of fact Marie, my wife, recently ( in the last 3-4 years) just sold her family French Quater Building which used to house the Family run bar ( down stairs) and the living quaters ( unstairs) with No off street parking an a very tiny yard which may have accomodate a horse and carriage (back when it was built circa the mid 1800s ) But it had just over 5700 square feet and we had a though time selling it for far less ( many times less) than you are probaly building your building for. And our old French Quater Building was meant to be a single family dwelling/commerical building even when built.And it is listed with the Vieux Carre Comission here in N.O. as having "Local Historical Value". So size does vary in areas as well as PRICES for those sq. Ft. as well.

And I remember when ALL floor coverings were sold by the Square Yard. And even the Cement is sold by square yards here( but there is a standard amount a TRUCK can carry) and when we went to replace the roof on that Quarter property I was asked "How Many SQUARES" did it require? Wonder what they were speaking about?

Do you think even when dealing in the same commodities loacl market prices can vary as well as standard sizes and specs? Maybe it sort of like UI and Sq.Footage charts in another Business and why their priceing may vary in different geographical regions?LOL But come to think about it maybe it is all in some way related based on the region you live in.
It's interesting to me that even a thread like this could somehow become mildly divisive. (No, Buddy, I'm NOT talking about you.)

Every time I read a thread about the high-rent districts, I find myself wondering if I could rent a single square foot and set up a brighter-than-average gerbil selling, I donno, microchips or something.
The square ft. price sounds and reads like a lot less $$$ than the square yd. price.

Do you think there might be a bit of marketing going on there.

H D will display floor covering and tile showing a higher end product in sq. ft. and the lower end in sq. yds.

It's probably a tricky calculation for most people who don't work with those figures regularly.
Remember when a coffee can contained one pound of were quoted per pound and got one pound of coffee.

Today a coffee can is 13.5 ounces (33-39 oz for the old 3 pound size) even though it is priced by the pound the can price is less..........because it contains less.
As a second issue, how much of the price of the building is based on land speculation and not on the actual rent to be received from the property.?

If these 2-3 retailers have leases, they are probally locked into their existing rates. These existing rates might be much lower than inferred. These inferred rates are however much more than we can comprehend.

A $50,000 ring by the way takes a lot less space than our $100 frame jobs or a $25 poster. And..... the time to sell a $50,000 ring is probally not in direct proportion to our $100 frame jobs either.
Commerical and retail flooring( carpet, hardwood, etc) quoted by the square foot here in metro DC area.
“This is prime, prime, prime retail space,” says Faith Hope Consolo, chairman, retail leasing and sales division for Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate. “Space like this very rarely comes to the market.” She said the pricing was comparable to what’s available in the retail marketplace. “That’s the market. Rents there are going at $850 or $900 per sf.”

Example:If you were renting a 1,500 square foot store at $900.00/sq/ft.
($900.00/12months)x 1500 sq.ft. = $112,500.00 monthly rent
Well forget it, then.

I haven't figured out how to make my 1-sq-ft gerbil-staffed microchip store wheelchair accessible, anyway.
Marc, I am an authority, and on occation am paid for it.

If I am working up a "call-out" for a bid on new construction then the "final" is quoted as a "Per Square Foot" cost. (true from Main to SoCal, Little Pine Key to Adack) This is because you are bidding the "Whole Job".

Re-habs are broken down to more specific numbers and may or maynot be large enough or contain scope enough for a seperation of "Sheet goods" from "Flooring Products".

Sheet goods (Vinyl, Marmolium (Linolium), and carpet are SOLD and quoted by the installers by the yard.

Flooring Products (woods, tiles, pressed or stained concrete, tarrazzo) are sold by the foot because they are not produced as a "bulk" product.

Buddy, a Roofing Square is 10'x10' or 100 square feet which in a composition roof takes 3 bundles to cover. The roof is figured by the square footabe footprint (1,600sqft) and divided by the number of squares needed (16) then add for each crease run 1.6xlinear footage of runs. In freeze zones add 10% for reverse freeze rail and shield.

Concrete is sold by the CUBIC yard ALWAYS, you may be ordering a TRUCK, but if you only need 3 cubic yards . . . you had better come up with an other 2-5 yard hole or you will be charge a horrendous "Holing" or "Disposal" fee... (here in Portland that can run upto $500/yd of material)

You may measure your need in sq ft or yards but the average residential basement is only 3" thick, a driveway is 4" (at 3,500+psi mix), commercial pad is 4-5, truck pad is 6" and the printing press pad just laid out here was 10" post pour cable stessed 5,000psi (moister proof) with a 700 hour supressed cure...

If viewed as "Square Yard" they would be 1/12th, 1/9th, and 1/4 of the yardage that would be delivered.... and that can be a mess.

Those trucks hold 3, 5, & 8 cubic yards of mater..

In Amsterdam, I stayed in a wonderful house that was heated by radiant floor heat. The floors were all marble as well as the wainscote. The story was, the owner/contractor had measured and put out to bid for the flooring on just 1 floor and the bathrooms. Because he was working with three suppliers in the USA, he converted all measures to square feet.

All three were quoting cost landed at his doorstep, so (unknownst to Earnst) they had ALL quoted in square METERS... He watched as they unloaded TWO trucks. He had thought the price was a little steep, but it WAS landed his addresss.

So we tread all three floors on warm marble.... heaven.

Not to Frankenthread but this is a problem in our industry because UI and SF can be widely different. (ie: 10"x70" and 20"x35" how are gonna quote the glass and matboard?) :D you knew I'd bring it back to framing....
We purchased a section of land awhile back an paid for it by the acre.

Today, it is a hot, prime location and are being offered prices in the frontage foot rate.

Yea, it's all about perception. Old school guys still mentally convert it into $/acre and the "new kids" don't know how.

That must be why I still convert flooring into sq yd rates. Thank goodness I can still multiply by 9 in my head
Can we start selling moulding by the inch?

"That profile is only 1.50 an inch"....for some reason that doesn't sound cheap.
Jay...all the more reason to convert to metric. Quote by the cm. :D
My mistake Baer, I knew it was Cubic yards in cement trucks but I just got stuck on SQUARES. My point was that they can be all converted if you know the Volumetric or lineal conversions.

However there are some industry and coloquial terms that can be confuseing.And the real estate cost and locally accepted sizes can have a direct relation to what everything else cost.Just as I am sure that some methods of measureing change to avoid Sticker shock.
I have seen N'awlins resturantes decrease the size of portions in an effort to not increase the usual price of an entree, but the conversion can be mathimatically computed if you know all the components.LOL

AOL recently displayed a cost of Houseing chart for some of the major cities.I checked Three since I have family living in them . The system was based on 0 being the average and a+ number indicate how much above the national average and a - indicated below. Jacksonville ( the area my oldest son lives in was a +2 ,New Orleans was a-14, and San Diego ( where my daughter currently lives) was a + 24. So I guess the cost of liveing and shopping in those areas may also be equally as different and some methods of measureing things being sold may also be computed differently to not scare away sales.LOL But then I guess everyone in each area grows accustomed to the different price scalea and cost of living.
PS I'll even bet there is a way to make a formula for changeing UI to Footage for moulding ,just as we can do for UI and Sq. Ins. for mats and glazing .But it probaly what require quadratic equations or worse.So why bother.LOL
I'm paying $7.60 per sq foot......... in midcoast Maine.... with a leaky ceiling in my workshop area!
I'm battling with the landlord right now to fix the leaks. A bagel factory used to be in here and they put in vents for their ovens. I think the leaks are coming from the seals around the vents. At any rate, the landlord says that he lets the tenants do what they want and will not be responsible for fixing up any modifications previous tenants have made.
I can see his point... up to a point........ putting holes in a roof is pretty major!..... it's very frustrating and darn if I'm going to fix this guys roof!
I can see his point... up to a point........ putting holes in a roof is pretty major!..... it's very frustrating and darn if I'm going to fix this guys roof!
I'm with you. The roof should be his responsibility and not yours. My landlords at both locations take care of the roof.
Ginaperry, You might want to call HUD. There is tenants unstated RIGHT to habability....

Simpley put A roof that doesn't leak, and windows that are closed to the weather (proper shelter).

Heat against cold....nothing about AC.

Clean water, and waste disposal (toilet that works)... (note: if all plumbing works when you rented the space, and the toilet stops working, THAT is YOUR responsablility. If the water turns bad or stops working... Landlord. Same for water & space heat and the Roof)

The landlords responsability stops at the paint on the inside. All else, in the security and protection of the interior space is his.

Glass in the display windows and doors being broken in... are your / insurances territory.
Baer is right on with his suggestion - except contact your state, county, and city departments, too.

Quite often there is a landlord/tenents union or office that has the landlord/tenents rental laws in a nice handy packet. Usually there is a specific process to address problems with leaky roofs, plumbing, electrical, and heating issues. You have to follow the proceedure exactly. Often you are required to send a registered/certified letter to the landlord specifically notifiying him of the problem. Your notification of the landlord in writing starts the clock running. Usually there are specified amounts of time within which the landlord has to do the repair. If he doesn't, there are usually options available to the renter to rectify the problem on his own once the landlord has not performed the repair as required.

There are some differences between commercial and residential lease requirements for landlords and renters. Check what your lease says you are responsible for - the landlord is not always right.

You might also check with your state bar association - they often have free/lowcost legal clinics where they can walk you through what you need to do. Sometimes a nicely worded letter from a lawyers office gets the job done - and lawyers have things that need to be framed, so you might be able to work out a trade for some legalese.

Good luck!