Removing old dust cover?

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SPetty

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
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Hello,

I am new here and very new to everything framing and am real happy to (finally!) find such a resource. I have searched the internet and this forum for this answer, but haven't had any luck and so apologize if it has been answered before.

Since I lost my job last year, my friend has asked if I'd help her with "make-ready" on items that she picks up at thrift stores to resell. This is mostly just cleaning and minor repair. I find that it is a fun thing to do, and hopefully we'll be making a little cash.

All of the framed pictures that she has brought me so far have needed to have the dust cover (I didn't even know that was the name of the paper on the back of pictures a few weeks ago!) replaced due to tears or holes. There is nothing antique or archival about the art, but it is not new. I can find scads of info on the internet about how to attach a dust cover (do y'all really spritz it with water after attaching it??!?) and have learned of something called ATG tape and I now have some of that. (Even though I seem to be having a little trouble controlling it...)

But what I'm having real trouble finding information on is how to remove the adhesive from the wooden frame after removing the old dust cover paper. I've been using a paint scraper, but it doesn't always work on the gummy adhesive. I expect using chemicals (like Goo Gone) would prevent the new adhesive from sticking.

Is there a "right way" to remove the prior adhesive from the former dust cover? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help,
-- SPetty
 
That is why I have gone back to glue for attaching dust covers - makes the removal and replacement much easier on down the line.

Sometimes, depending on the age of the dust cover you are removing, you can burnish cheap masking tape down the line and pull off a lot of the old paper and tape. Sometimes a rubber cement pick-up works.

If you are worried about Goo Gone, try lighter fluid.

And you can develop a technique for holding a #12 razor blade in your hand to scrape off the offending gunk.

Have fun - and don't plan on getting rich any time soon! ;)
 
Sometimes if you apply heat from a hair drier as you pull on the paper (or tape) it will come off real clean. Sometimes it won't! :shrug:
 
You may be right, Paul - but ofttimes the back of a frame has many many layers of garbage - rotting brown paper attached with hide glue, torn brown paper attached with white glue, crumbling black paper attached with ATG - the gamut of awfulness - torn off in lumps and clumps.

I always take a frame down to bare wood if I have to scrape it.
 
Yep the best thing I have found is a Utility Knife blade held at 90 degrees to the wood surface and scraped back and forth, or a sanding disc.. I almost always try to get down to the wood. It will make for a better seal. (and I'm old school glue, not ATG)
 
I don't know Larry, the 360K is kind of under-powered for this kind of job..... I think I'd go with the Binford 23hp 2700BNROS with it's dual synaptic cyclonic action for the full induction pick delivery of total rotational over-feed resulting in a refined tonal resurfacing. Ready for that new layer of Binford 9000 PVA dustcover adhering formula.

A bad boy combination that is sure to snap that switch on "job done".
 
Welcome to the "G", Spetty!

Enjoy your travels here!

A sanding block is easy to make
It helps clean the inside edge of the frame and remove the shards of paper, etc.
 
I had to remove a bunch a while back. I found the hair dryer tip to be the most useful. Don't set it too hot so you don't burn yourself and go slow. What's left will come off by rubbing with your thumb. After the blisters heal it get easier.
 
Glass is really great for scraping but protect yourself by applying a couple layers of duct tape along the edge you are holding. And do not, I repeat, DO NOT press TOO HARD, or the glass will break!

Ask me how I know this.
 
You can apply a line of really sticky masking tape, burnish it down, and lift it off and sometimes you will get lucky and get a lot of the old stuff attached to it.

The trick with the atg is that it is designed to go into a dispenser and dispensed with a certain side facing out. Imagine a roll of two ply toilet paper: It gets all jumbled up and starts rolling funny and you realize one layer of ply is flipped around so the reverse sides are facing. You can see the perforation is not lining up and get the AHA! moment and flip the one layer around and it's all back to normal. Try this with the atg and see if it behaves a little nicer.
 
If the method of attachment is hide glue or white glue, I have discovered the easiest method is to take a foam brush and moisten the layer or layers of paper for several minutes. Keep brushing water on until the water pools. Then wait a few minutes - should scrape up quite cleanly.

Although sometimes there will be an adhesive residue which can be scrubbed up with an old wetted toothbrush and mopped up with paper towels or whatever.

I don't believe I have even thrown away a toothbrush whilst it still had bristles - they are great in the arsenal of frame cleaning supplies.
 
an auto body grinder souped up by Tim the Toolman works great....

or use old scrap glass to scrape what won't come off using masking tape (high tack) burnished down hard on the residue and yank it off.
 
I'm not sure why you need to remove all the old adhesive - but I'll play-

IF you need/want to remove as much of the old adhesive as possible, and you are SURE that it is solvent based (PVA glue is NOT) - a small amount of Naphtha will soak into the remaining paper residue and soften the glue to the point that you can do as Jeff suggests and scrape it with a glass scrap. Then let the balance of the solvent evaporate.

BUT - you need to determine what the old adhesive is. Sanding a rubber/acrylic based adhesive will only clog sand paper and getting as much as possible off is the key.

Also, if it is old hide or PVA glue (which also really gums up sand paper) and you really want to have a renewed wood surface, sanding is the best option - and using a detail sander like the Fein Sander (or the new Dremel Tool) with a triangular tip is easier to control than a palm or other sander. I am waiting for the Binford model to be released :).

But please explain to me the necessity for doing so? If you are putting a new cover on, and the remaining residue is sound, can't you just attach a new cover over where the old one was. Am I missing something? Are you telling me that if you fit something and find a piece of "chud" inside AFTER you have attached the dust cover, you actually go back to raw wood? Are you the same framers who are complaining about not making a living wage?

DO NOT wet (or apply any moisture) to a dust cover. How much moisture? How do you know some is not trapped and has changed the RH of the filler boards? Properly applied, a dust cover can be perfectly snug without being drum tight. Also, the tighter the cover, the more likely to be punctured.

In the olden days, this was a technique used by many, and unfortunately it is still kicking around - but you won't find any CPF's or MCPF's supporting the practice. (Same as the old wife's tale that canvas needs to "breathe" so you had to have holes cut into the backing paper) - completely WRONG and actually bad for the art.
 
I use a short (3") straight edged knife which I sharpen on occasion. I suspect though that a simple paint scrapper would work very well for both ATG and glue.
 
Holy Cow! You guys are great!

I'm having a ball going through some old posts and learning new things, and your responses here are fabulous!

It's interesting that I had already tried several of the methods that y'all recommended (masking tape, sand paper), with inconsistent results, but I would never have thought to use a shard of glass or a vertical razor blade. I did try acetone which didn't work at all, but didn't think to try lighter fluid. I suspect lighter fluid will leave behind an oily substance based on my previous history of using it as a wood cleaner. I tried the green scrubber stuff, too. I don't own a hair dryer, but could probably pick one up pretty cheap. I thought about trying to use an iron, but didn't quite get around to that. I did get a "thumb burn" by rubbing with my thumb, which is about the time I gave up and finally found this forum and posted here to see if there was a better way. So far, the paint scraper has worked the best, although I have lightly dug into the frame on a few occasions. That's O.K. for what I'm doing, but I was sure there had to be a better way for actual valuable frames.

I *think* that all the ones I've done so far have been ATG tape. I do not believe I've worked on one that wasn't ATG tape, but I'm just basing that on the evenness of the width of the adhesive. I suppose if you're really good with the glue, you could put it on as evenly as tape, right? I don't know how to tell what adhesive it is, except that it looks like 1/2" tape (except one that looked like 1/4" tape).

The entire job would be pretty quick if I wasn't so particular about getting the old material removed before putting on the new material.

I do understand that the new paper will cover some sins underneath, but I think the lumps and clumps left behind might cause trouble and look bad.

As for using the ATG tape, I got pretty good at it without the gun, but since I bought a gun anyway, I have a hard time making it go in a straight line at approximately the distance from the edge of the frame that I want. Manually, it was pretty easy to start it at one end, then unroll it and set it down at the other end, gently pressing it along in the middle.

I use old toothbrushes for "everything" as well.

Tim the Toolman Binford power sander arrrrgharrrgharrrgh LOL

"ATG PICK-UP" erasure sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll stop by my local frame shop next week and see if they'd be willing to get it for me.

Thanks for the info about "no water" on the dust cover. It looks so pretty when it is so tight, but I suspect that's what causes the tears and holes in the ones that I am now repairing! :)
 
I was gonna jump in, but i see I'm not needed here. so, uh....yeah. What they said. Welcome to the G!
 
Welcome to the Grumble, S! :smiley:

I was taught to use ATG tape when putting on dust covers,
and then after eight years of that, came to this shop. Where
she insisted I use glue to attach them. I chafed mightily and
thought it was just awful. But not immoral or illegal, so I bit
my lip and did it. It just seemed so messy and GLUEY.

After doing it this way for awhile, I now prefer it by far
to the ATG kind. So much easier to handle if a fitting ever
needs to be re-done. Plus, it's faster and costs less.
There is one thing I've manage to steer the shop away
from, and am most glad of it. As has been described here,
this boss of mine liberally squirted every dust cover with water,
saying that it was needed. For the life of me, I couldn't see
why. If you make a good, tight dust cover in the first place,
it doesn't need 'fixing'. Plus, as has been said, why add
moisture? Since I do all training, I've taught every worker
since 2000 how to do it without spraying. I say, 'If she
ever does do a fitting, and if she sprays it with water,
it's because she thinks it's a good idea. She's the boss,
so she can.' But I sure am glad we do it without on
almost every frame that has left the shop for several
years.

Enough of my rambles. Here's something that might
be useful. If the previous dust cover is on good and tight,
you might consider just trimming out the paper inside
the frame, then adding a new dust cover with glue right
over the old. But only if the old is well-attached and not
all lumpy.

Have you figured out how to put them on tightly yet?
If not, I'd be happy to write you a description of what
works for me. It sure is fun to get bitten by the framing
bug, isn't it?
 
ann e sellers said:
What kind of glue do you old school framers use? Does the glue leave wrinkly glue line marks in paper? I grew up using ATG.
Click to expand...

I currently use Franks fabric adhesive. I also use Tyvek as the dust cover. A hair dryer / Iron (on the outside of the Tyvek) makes it rather easy to remove.

40 years ago I just used white glue.
 
My suggestion is to have about 3 - 4 tall glasses of a very good Riesling Wine - be sure it is the good stuff - get some liquid adhesive remover and apply it liberally without using a mask and be sure you are indoors without good ventilation. When you wake up at about 3:00AM, in bed, wondering how you got there and when and also wondering what you did the night before - you will forget about removing the old adhesive and just put down new atg and dust cover and call it quits - I'm speaking from experience :D:D:D
 
Hey Sue, that just happened recently, you should have warned me when you sold me that stuff :) Can't afford to loose to many more of those brain cells:faintthud:
 
shayla said:
Here's something that might be useful. If the previous dust cover is on good and tight, you might consider just trimming out the paper inside the frame, then adding a new dust cover with glue right over the old. But only if the old is well-attached and not all lumpy.

Have you figured out how to put them on tightly yet? If not, I'd be happy to write you a description of what works for me. It sure is fun to get bitten by the framing bug, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Hi Shayla,
Yes, it is kind of fun. I'm finding it a bit more difficult than I expected. I did not yet even consider just trimming the old paper inside the frame. I've just been grabbing it and ripping as much off as I could, which of course, results in lumps and clumps where the paper does not all come off as previously described. I will consider that from now on, because some of the paper is well attached at the edges, but just torn in the middle.

I also am starting to appreciate that the tighter the cover, the more likely it is to get damaged. I have been spritzing the cover with water after attaching it and letting it dry in order to get it tight. I do not know how to get it tight other than that, but with my inexperience, it is still not perfect even with the water.

I would love it if you could write a description of how to tightly attach a dust cover without shrinking the paper with water.

I appreciate all the help. :)
 
I used to work with a gal (who moved to Florida and stole my shop's name for her shop!) and she liked tight dust covers but she p[re-shrank the paper before applying it - she had a stack of papers all ready to go, she spritzed them all with a mister, let them dry, then ironed them onto the backs of the frames (she applied white glue with a roller).

I always thought it seemed like a lot of work.
 
Loosely lay the paper over the frame. Rub the farthest side down on the ATG. Lift the side nearest yourself and lay it back down on the frame. Push the paper down over the edge nearest yourself to the table and while applying pressure to the table rub the paper down as you follow the pressure point from the middle out to either end of the frame. Lift the paper off the left side of the frame and apply pressure over the edge of the frame to the table and rub to the ATG following the pressure point from the center to the edges again. Repeat on the right side and the backing paper is tight all the way around.
 
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