Question reinforcing frame

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M

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
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Oct 8, 2007
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Clay Center, KS.
I'm producing several frames sized 27" x 25" with a 3/4" moulding. The completed product will have glass, 2 mats, foamcore, and several pieces of military patches, rank hardware. The completed project will weigh around 9 pounds. Does the frame need to reinforced? I have another one of these that will be sized 32x25.

I think I read somewhere about using shipping tape to reinforce but didn't say how it was done. Was I dreaming or is this a good method? I didn't seem to find anything in my search
 
IMHO, if you even WONDER if the frame can support its "guts" then the frame isn't adequate for the job. That's my personal 'rule'. Can you lighten the "load" by using acrylic rather than glass?

And use L brackets (corner brackets) on the posterior four corners.

I'd use WallBuddies or mirror hangers....not wire.

I've never heard of Framestrong.
 
Sherry Lee said:
I've never heard of Framestrong.
Click to expand...

I'd say most framers have not heard of it because it was invented by a man in New Jersey. He attempted to get the product picked up by major suppliers to no avail. But I LOVE this stuff!

You can reinforce a skinny frame without much effort, and they send you a boatload of pads for only $10.00.

The man who invented it has since passed away, but his wife and son have taken over the business. I hope they don't stop producing them, because we'll be lost without them.:help:
 
If I got this correct, the FrameStrong has self adhesive pads that stick to the wood lip of the frame. This is attached to some strapping material that goes across the back of the frame? If this is the case, you're only reinforcing the frame against the fool that picks up the frame by the top rail. There will never be much stress DOWN in the center of the bottom rail in the frame because the weight of the glass is carried by the bottom rail at the corners. The bottom edge of the glass is a straight line - which is supported at each end by the frame corners. I don't know of any pressure sensitive adhesive that will stick very long to raw wood (like the inside of the frame rabbets) because the lignen adversly affects the adhesive. Albin Products makes a strap assembly for both wood and metal frames that doesn't rely on adhesives.

What I have done in the past is to staple #1 wire across the center of the frame. One staple over the wire - fold the wire back over the staple, then another staple over both wires - a few twists - Done. Paper over the whole little lump - hardley shows.

If'n you're concerned about the strength of the frame corners, reinforce them with angle braces bent slightly towards the front of the frame to increase the pressure against front face of the miter joint.
 
Another thing I've done is use matboard, much as Greg uses wire. I staple a strip of matboard to the top and bottom rails. If you are concerned about the integrity of the corners, you could make triangles out of matboard and staple those to the corners, too.

And of course, if the frame is deep enough, you could use a strainer.
 
To address the “shipping tape” reinforcement, I just used this on a 72” x 12” poster.

I believe I got the idea from Jim Miller in a poly frame thread on this board.

I used a 1 1/2 inch Roma moulding, OP3 and Wallbuddies.

I filled the back of the frame (flush) with foamcore and put points in. I then ran 2” packing tape all the way around. One inch on the frame and one inch on the foamcore and burnished it down.

I grabbed the top and bottom of the frame in the middle (six feet long) and tried to pull them apart. No movement at all. Fitted a dust cover and had one of those, “Wow, that worked well.” moments.

Thanks Jim.

Clive.
 
Ive been using Framestrong for many years now ... great product ... I would never recomend angle braces on the corners .. they tend to pull the glue seal apart thus I hate them ...
 
I've got a loosely-related problem. I've joined some very skinny frames -- only a half-inch wide from the front -- and when I drive the points into the frames during fitting, it jars the corners apart. Yes, I used glue, and I used one v-nail per corner. This happens when I use my pneumatic point driver as well as the manual tool.

I would use offset clips for the fitting, but the moulding is only 1/4 inch on the back, and the edge of the clip sticks out.

I'm thinking of buying the FrameMate 2-in-1 fitting tool, if that will solve the problem. Any ideas?
 
Paul, if you butt each side against a solid object (like a box of glass laying flat on the table) when you shoot it, it should not stress the corners.
 
You can use a piece of a 2x4 as a backstop. I also have a couple of sizes of acrylic blocks that I use for this purpose. Paul, I prefer the old-fashioned cast metal fitting tools to the Fletcher one, for durability.
:cool: Rick
 
I am sincerely confused.
We all have customers wanting a huge piece in a too narrow frame. I recommend metal or the next size frame up and explain that they need it to make sure the support is right. You don't want that glass to fall out right? When you educate them, you can point out that it's not going to work because of the weight and the skinny frame.

Why go through all the extra's of reinforcing a frame that maybe shouldn't have been on that piece in the first place. Do you throw in the labor for free?

I don't mean this as critique, just curious how a situation like this arose or why it was accepted.
 
Ylva, in my case the frame is skinny, but it's a small frame holding a very light canvas. It's just that the force of driving points into 1/4-inch wide hardwood is popping the corners.
 
Several years ago I found the perfect solution to the troublesome, skinny mouldings. I threw every one of those samples in the dumpster.
 
PaulSF said:
Ylva, in my case the frame is skinny, but it's a small frame holding a very light canvas. It's just that the force of driving points into 1/4-inch wide hardwood is popping the corners.
Click to expand...

Raise the frame to vertical and shoot the points down with the "skinny" frame rail supported by the table - no more stress on the corners. :D:D
 
PaulSF said:
Ylva, in my case the frame is skinny, but it's a small frame holding a very light canvas. It's just that the force of driving points into 1/4-inch wide hardwood is popping the corners.
Click to expand...

I understand that and in your case the frame doesn't have to support anything and it's just a matter of attaching without popping corners.

My confusion was more about the original post; reinforcing a frame that clearly wasn't meant to go on a larger, heavier size art plus glass.
 
Hired Help said:
To address the “shipping tape” reinforcement, I just used this on a 72” x 12” poster.

I grabbed the top and bottom of the frame in the middle (six feet long) and tried to pull them apart. No movement at all. Fitted a dust cover and had one of those, “Wow, that worked well.” moments
Click to expand...
The problem with packaging tape is that the adhesive is not intended to maintain it's adhesion forever. I have found that, like masking tape, packaging tape adhesives either dry out and fall off or become a sticky gooey mess and slide apart.

There is a clue as to it's intended/fit for, usage in it's name.....'packaging' tape! Perhaps it's different in your country?

IMHO it's an age old story....... baseball bats for baseball, tennis racquets for tennis, cricket bats for cricket, golf clubs for.........???
 
I believe some of 3M's high-end tapes have an acrylic adhesive that is longer-lasting. Jim M. has mentioned using it to seal frame packages before fitting. I do that sometimes too, if there's a chance of frame bits entering the package.
:cool: Rick
 
The problem with packaging tape is that the adhesive is not intended to maintain it's adhesion forever. I have found that, like masking tape, packaging tape adhesives either dry out and fall off or become a sticky gooey mess and slide apart.

There is a clue as to it's intended/fit for, usage in it's name.....'packaging' tape! Perhaps it's different in your country?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it is no different in America. (Or did you mean to type that in green? :confused:)

I did use "3M's high-end tape". But I have to admit to wondering about the long term adhesion issues.

I did think about fiberglass mesh drywall tape and glue. PVA, YES paste or fabric adhesive maybe.

In retrospect, gluing and/or screwing a piece of matboard or coroplast on the back of the frame in place of the dust cover would probably have been a better solution.

Clive.
 
You may be right about the quality of adhesive on shipping tape. Migration of nasty chemistry into the framing package is another question, but I'm not concerned about these issues for two reasons:

1. For non-protective or moderately-protective framing of posters and such, since the tape is used directly under the dustcover, I consider it a disposable part of the frame assembly, and do not expect it to endure any longer than the dustcover paper.

2. For protective framing of valuables, I use Lineco's paper/foil tape, instead. Not only does it have a high-quality adhesive, but it also makes a gas-impermeable seal around the back of the frame, which is a good thing if the frame's rabbet is also sealed with the same tape. It does not have the shear-resistance of most packing tapes, but that sort of stress is not imposed on the tape in that application, anyway.
 
I strongly agree, some customers just don't have a clue; using a wider frame just benefits everyone. Sometimes with large pieces, I use the technique that someone else also mentioned: cut a piece of (I use gray) mat board 1/4" smaller than the outside of your frame and staple every 3-4" around to the back as a "re-enforcer dustcover". If you really want to make it nice, cut the mat board 1/2" smaller all around and after stapling, use Lineco frame sealing tape (light blue/gray) to tape over the staples and seal the exposed 1/2" of the back of the frame to the edge; it looks clean and professional and this tape stays on raw wood very well; I have been using this technique especially with shadowboxes for many years, with great success.

AND I love the Grumble too; when I post a question you guys are there with the answer. Thank you.
 
In drag racing circles there is a saying:

"Ain't no substitute for cubes"

Meaning that if the engine isn't man enough to start with no amount of tweaking or performance-aiding bolt-on bits will help.

In framing I say:

"Ain't no substitute for using enough wood"

No matter how much extra support you try and add a skinny frame is always going to come apart sooner rather than later. Besides, aesthetically, a too-thin frame looks like carp anyway. It is just an extreme manifestation of the "minimalism gone mad" fad.
 
Ylva said:
I am sincerely confused.
We all have customers wanting a huge piece in a too narrow frame. I recommend metal or the next size frame up and explain that they need it to make sure the support is right. You don't want that glass to fall out right? When you educate them, you can point out that it's not going to work because of the weight and the skinny frame.
Click to expand...

People are dumb... seriously... they don't want to be educated, they want what they want, and it doesn't matter what you explain to them....

ive started offering metal frames as well if they want a small frame on a large picture.

And Jim... i really like that idea of throwing away small samples... but... they do work on 11x14's really well.... so do larger frames... so its a toss up, or toss out. :)

its the 1 inch frames that people want on 32x40 things that make me cringe... yes... we have metal frames for that.... ugh. if they dont' go for metal... its best to try harder or send them on their way????
 
Actually, If the customer is determined to have a skinny frame metal probably the best way to go, especially something a bit meaty and nicely finished like Nielsen's 97 profile.
It is also pretty easy to reinforce it by just putting a D-ring top and bottom and stretching a wire across.
 
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