reasonable shipping?

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D_Derbonne

D_Derbonne

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 12, 2001
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Middleburg, FL
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semi retired
...or maybe that should be "unreasonable shipping?"

I received a chop order today. It is from a company I rarely do business with but I had to match a frame for a customer.

The order was for 15 frames chopped 23" x 29" and it arrived in 3 boxes. The shortest box was 6 feet long!
Needless to say the shipping charges were a little higher than I expected and those charges had not been passed along to my customer.

The customer service person told me that it was either that or they would have had to pack them into 7 boxes. I don't understand this since other companies have a variety of sizes to ship orders.

I told them I had accepted this order because I have to have the frames (it took almost a week to recieve them) but would be looking for another source for these frames or a close substitute for future orders.

They told me they would get back to me.

I wonder if anyone thinks this was a reasonable way to ship these frames or maybe I'm just having a bad day and am being unreasonable?
 
Originally posted by D_Derbonne:
Needless to say the shipping charges were a little higher than I expected and those charges had not been passed along to my customer.
Click to expand...
Some hard numbers here might make it easier to compare/gauge.

How mush was it?

How much did you think it would be?
 
Deb,

Most of my suppliers would give FREE shipping on that many chops. When you buy chop you are really paying a premium price, please tell me they didn't also charge you over length UPS charges too.

By the way, when buying short length like 3 or 4 sticks, always ask for DHL/AirBorne. They don't charge extra unless it goes over 10 ft.
 
Do like me and jerk them off the wall and yell "YOUR FIRED". It will make you feel tons better.
 
The shipping charges were almost $70.
I guess I was figuring more in the neighborhood of $20.
This was not a wide profile, only 2". I just never imagined they would ship them in oversized boxes.

I was given a small discount on the chops because of the quantity.

I ordered from this company because the moulding sample I was shown had their name on it.

I doubt that I will be ordering from them again.
 
I would call and speak to the customer service manager. Explain what happened, and why you think it was not sensible or reasonable. I bet they will rebate a good deal of that shipping charge. Someone there messed up.
 
70 each box box, or for all three?

20 for each box, or for all three?

How much was the total dollarr value of the order (before shipping)?

Who was the shipper? And if you don't want to answer that, how was it shipped (2 day air, 3 day, ground. . .)?

But with what you have explained so far, here's some thoughts (but the other info will make the picutre clearer in general):

When I talk to my vendors, they have a set of questions they run thru, in the order that they like. One always is "Shipping method."

For instance, I usually say Pacific Messenger. Inexpensive and reliable always next day delivery.

But Just in Time, or UPS would also be next day. UPS for more money. And Just It Time, usually isn't.

State the shipper you want. If they say they don't pick up from them, or don't deal with them, then ask who are all the shippers they do deal with. You might be surpirsed. Vendors have many local gems in their hip pocket.

Now, if it's a vendor that as you say, you don't deal with much you need to do some other things.

When I deal with a vendor in that situation, I ask them for the shipping amount. If they say they don't know. I als for a ballpark, or I ask for a call back within a short time.

If I don't like the number, for some reason, they always ask me to hold, and then for some reason they almost always, come back on the line and say they miscalculated, and give me a new number.

Now this all assumes I did not make the minimum, and I actually care what the shipping is.

Before I ask the shipping, I ask how much is the order, and I ask what my minimum for free shipping, or for a freight allowance.

Sometimes it's a buck or two short, so I add on a few feet. And save a lot more.

I guess what I'm saying, is if you don't ask you won't know. And if you don't ask you won't get.
 
Deb

That is outrageous. I know what I would do with their samples. I really hope that this is not one of the companies I have samples for. Could you send me the company name privately? I feel sure you don't want to go public with the name or you would have stated it in the original post.
 
This was an order that totaled $1000. I'm quite sure that should have the minimum.

$70 was the total charge for shipping, not per box.
If it was per box I would have refused the order.
IT was shipped UPS ground. THe order was placed last Friday and delivered yesterday, Thursday.

I did speak to a customer service rep, was given the answer that this was the best way they had to package (in oversize boxes). When I said it was unacceptable and that I wouldn't be doing future business with them in that case I was told that someone else will get back to me.
At best I expect they will give me a credit. Since I've already paid the bill the money is already out of my pocket.


Thanks for the advice Marc. I will remember to ask more questions in the future but I doubt that I'll be doing any future business with this company under the circumstances. There are just too many other options out there.

You live, you learn. It seems that all my mistakes are costly and this one will not be repeated.
 
They have us by the balls.

I think that sometimes they are too lazy to help us out and trim the box.

Yeah, just throw it in that box Mac, they pay for it anyway.

Reasonable Shipping?

Like asking for affordable housing and cheap framing.

Less likes Roma's technique. They use tubes as much as possible. They are very strong and inexpensive to ship.

Let's support those who try to help us out.
 
I’m sorry if I hijack this thread.

This is one of two issues that I have failed to comprehend..

The first is chop vs. length when LJ’s chop price 40%-50% over length with a 4-foot minimum but that is a different thread.

The second is showing mouldings that you have you pay shipping for every frame you order.

That is why I receive every single profile I show on a delivery truck. Sure I pay a few pennies more per foot than ordering from a supplier but nowhere near the $8 - $15 per frame we commonly see on orders directly from moulding companies.

About a month ago I ordered 2 lengths from Gemini but like Deb I was matching moulding.

I remember an Omega rep coming in peddling their moulding from the new Memphis location. I told him to keep all his pamphlets and brochures because I won’t be ordering frames one at a time via UPS. Only then did he admit that there was supplier from Nashville that can get me their moulding cheaper than I could get them directly from Omega after you figure in shipping. He just confirmed what I had been thinking all along. I am very happy to announce that I now have several Omega profiles on the wall.

I ordered 500’ from Décor the other day and the total on shipping was $60.00. I don’t mind paying that. The total on that was way cheaper than using a supplier. The only disadvantage I have found is that there are several mouldings I would like to sell but I wouldn’t say I have a weak selection.
 
If you do not meet frght paid min. Right now you can almost expect to pay between 5%-8% shipping depending on the distance from your supplier. Why you are mad at the supplier I don't understand. Unless he had put it in oversized boxes then yes it incurred more cost to you. But weight + distance = cost to ship it has not much to do with the supplier. Now you know, the supplier is only the supplier not the shipping company, by the way is also paying $2.00 a gallon. We have a 7% shipping built into our pricing. Basic business practice. If we hit frght paid min. we pocket the profit. Just remember that when you meet the min. prepaid shipping you are in essence getting 5%-8% discount.
I am glad you did not mention the supplier as this has more to do with you learning something than the quality of the supplier. Unless like I said the supplier did something to cut his cost but cost you more.
Take what you want and leave the rest! Good luck
 
James! Right on!

Now...I just got back from helping pull orders out in the warehouse and there was one for 18' of length moulding and the cutting instructions were "cut so it can ship". Hmmmmm. 6 & balance, 18 one foot sections, 3 6 foot sections??????

Now, Deb's order from us would have received a 10% discount for 10 chops + with over $500.00 would be free freight. It sounds like the distributor or manufacturer that Deb picked doesn't have such a policy.

Usually there is going to be a warehouse person that has to box this order. Now last week he packed up 15 chops worth $1000.00 for UPS in 3 nice tidy boxes that were 48" long and banded them together and thought it was great. Well, oops managed to destroy the box and won't pay the damage claim because of their usual "insuffcient packaging" statement, so Mr./Ms. $7.00 an hour got their *ss reamed by the operations manager for poor packing.

What do you think his/her packing routine is going to be the next time?

I agree, tubes are great but keep in mind that oversize is lxwxd and some tubes will be an os charge as well.
 
James

I think Deb's point was the company put chops into oversize boxes. Then UPS charged for the oversize. If the company had shipped DHL/Airborne it would have probably been half, more like 30 to 35 bucks instead of $70.

By the way, the company that turned me on to DHL was Roma. They not only have the best product going in my humble opinion, they look for ways to improve on the shipping process as well.
 
I think I know who the supplier is and they (remaining anon) only have one size "chop" box that would handle an order this size, and it is just over 60" when taped up.
If I am correct, this company also uses expansion cut 250 lb corrugated cardboard for packing. Things usually arrive in one piece, but the packaging will add a significant weight to the shipping. I know this is probably as cost efficient as buying more expensive packing material and paying less freight, but the recipient "sees" the reflection in the cost of packaging more in the freight bill than in the markup on the product.
 
Originally posted by D_Derbonne:

The order was for 15 frames chopped 23" x 29" and it arrived in 3 boxes. The shortest box was 6 feet long!
Click to expand...
Reread Deb's original post. Seems to me they could have used more boxes shorter in length and it still would have been cheaper.

Although Deb, your percentage to price is better than this one I opened yesterday from Roma. $33 of product and $10 shipping. Roma is my cheapest out of state supplier on freight so I'm not sure why so high on this one. It says " 1 box 4 pounds AH". But, jeepers, a third of the cost for shipping.

I never know how to determine what to tell them to cut length since I don't know how big the stick will be. Roma is helpful because you can give them the frame size and they will cut the sticks to the smallest possible. Although that can be wasteful.
 
Thanks Jerry, that was exactly my point.
The vendor put chops that were only 29" long into boxes that were 6 feet and 8 feet long respectively.

Maybe I'm naive but I never expected to have chops that size arrive in oversize containers.

Jay, I normally have a slightly higher markup on mouldings that are shipped.
Most of my mouldings are available through suppliers that deliver but I have other vendors that have to ship.
When the vendors charge a minimum footage for chops I pass that along to the customer too.
The computer makes all of that easy.
 
John how do you figure shipping?

Is there a chance that some companies are………Lets just say overestimating their shipping costs?

Why is that some companies you just know are going to be way higher shipping than others? I personally like paying the exact shipping charge myself when the package arrives. It’s amazing how much cheaper it is when you do it that way.
 
The order was for 15 frames chopped 23" x 29" and it arrived in 3 boxes. The shortest box was 6 feet long!
Needless to say the shipping charges were a little higher than I expected and those charges had not been passed along to my customer.
Click to expand...
Where does it say oversized. I did not think 6' was oversized even for UPS. What was the distance it was shipped from and what was the wieght?$23.00 per 6' box does not sound that out of line, have you ever told a supplier I only want to pay $5.00@ per 3' box to have something shipped? For that fact has anyone figured out how much it would have cost to ship 7 boxes 3'long.(distance + wieght = cost)bet it is closer to $70.00 than what you think. If it would have been less then the three 6' boxes The supplier I am sure would give her a credit for the difference.(at least I would hope).
I hate to repeat myself, complain about the frght cost not the Supplier.
It only adds about $2.00 more per frame less than 3% the cost of the frame as I see it. Your margins should cover that. If it does not (not meant to be rude or demeaning) may I suggest a few work shops with Vivian Kistler, Jay Goltz or William Parker.
I disagree not the suppliers fault with the info presented so far.

Take what you want and leave the rest!
shrug.gif


[ 10-01-2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: GUMBY, GCF ]
 
It is from a company I rarely do business with but I had to match a frame for a customer. I told them I had accepted this order because I have to have the frames (it took almost a week to recieve them) but would be looking for another source for these frames or a close substitute for future orders.
Click to expand...
Customer walks through the door tells you she has been to every framer and craft store in town to get this picture framed in this moulding. You were the last and only choice left. Meaning if she had any other choice she would not be here. Would you call that rude and insulting?
Sometimes we don't think about what we say and do.
Sorry my last post on this subject I have no stones to throw at glass houses.
Take what you want and leave the rest!
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
 
5' 5" is the cut off now for oversize by UPS.

I know of a company that (I believe) is making a profit on their shipping, I guess to offset the "FREE" deliveries some get who are in such and such distance from them.
The warehouse told me that they were being retro charged on their shipping by UPS and every other supplier was as well but the others haven't figured it out yet. Uh huh, ALL the other suppliers are fools and don't watch their bottom line?
 
The third box was 8 feet long.

I don't think I went to the company and told them they were the only choice left.

Like I said, I was venting and trying to find out if I was being unreasonable or not. Sounds like some people think yes, some no.

Thanks for the input on the subject everyone.
 
Anything over 5ft 5in is oversize in the UPS world. Why would you pack chops into an 8ft long box? This one really is the shippers fault. Both in the choice of box and choice of carrier.

I hate to repeat myself, however, DHL would ship the 8ft long box the same price as 5ft given the same weight. They figure the 'girth' differently than UPS.
 
I think a couple answers here are way off track. Deb was asking is it fair to ship 2-1/2 foot long chops in 6-8 foot boxes when she knew she was incurring an additional charge for those over sized boxes. I don't think that means she needs to go to business school. I think it means she is wondering if somebody used bigger boxes than needed.
 
Deb,
I do think it is outragoues! When we as retail sales people put a companies moulding on our walls, At the very least these companies need to reward the ones who are selling thier product. 15 chops is more than any minimum I have ever been asked to pay to get free shipping.


I say don't sell that moulding again. Then if everyone does that, maybe this company will get the picture. There are too many companies out there willing to pay the shipping on 15 chops!

:rolleyes: I don't mind paying for lenth shipments because I know that the company is not making as much on these, but chops are different.


To be honest, I have no idea who this company is, but would love to know so I don't get hit with the same kind of charge. Is there some reason no one wants to say?
shrug.gif


As I see it, they tell everything else on here, And I know LaMarche has really taken a beating, why not this company?


Just wondering?
Jennifer
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
::
 
I would call this supplier and ask to speak to the rep.

It makes no sense to me to put those chops into that long of a box. I would expect that supplier to know that a box that long would be considered oversize and cost you more.

I would also ask the rep what more do you need to do to get free shipping.(!) Seems to me that your order would have met or exceeded the minimum for free shipping from most of their competitors. I would firmly suggest to the rep that giving you free shipping would be an adequate way to make up for this packing gaffe.

edie the feelingopinionatedtoday goddess
 
Studio cut their 4x4x? box to 63" for a small length order. Kind of usual for them. It cost Less about $4.60. Thanks Studio.

Roma sent a 4x60 tube on a $36 dollar chop. No Frieght?

Must be nice to Less day.

A little thought goes a long way to keeping Less happy.

The other option is Unseal.
 
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