Protective Sprays

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Brian K

Grumbler
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
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35
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Selkirk Manitoba
I have a 41 year old oil painting in the shop that is in good shape and a valued family possession. The client wants a protective finish applied. As a new guy in the barrel I'm reluctant to break new ground on something irreplaceable. Any advice appreciated!
 
Please listen to David on this one. Coating oil paintings, with anything is a topic that is under constant reconsideration. If it needs protection, use
sheet glazing, coated glass or anti-reflective acrylic, if they can pay that price.
 
Another way to put it:

Stripping the aged varnish off an oil to "clean" it, is a long and arduous task.

Popping out a sheet of Museum Glass and wiping it down is a 30 minute job at best.

If they dig their heels in, send them to the SFAM where they can view over 70% of the art, so far, is now behind glazing.
 
While glazing is the best option (check the archives for plenty of good reasons), some artists, framers, and owners simply prefer to leave their paintings naked. We all insist on glazing paper or fabric artworks, but painted canvas is supposed to be naked? That is a baffling double standard in the art world.

For those who are more interested in short-term visual perfection than long-term preservation of their art, most major cities still have conservators who are qualified to properly clean and varnish oil paintings. But like all other treatments that change the condition of artwork, that is a task no mere framer should undertake.
 
I have been varnishing oils since the mid-70's. Damar used to be the the standard which was accepted. Now recently I have been using Winsor & Newtons Conserv-Art Varnish which is removable with white spirits & turpentine, none blooming, non yellowing, & non-cracking. if this is incorrect It would be a suprise to me, since Winsor Newton still recommends this process. Not to mention that when any restoration to a painting is done a varnish isolation coat is applied prior to the restoration. Therefore any restoration work done can be removed also without disturbing the original paint surface. Has this changed?
 
GUMBY said:
I have been varnishing oils since the mid-70's.
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But would you expect someone with no experience to do it just by going out and buying the stuff you mention?

I have been using Winsor & Newtons Conserv-Art Varnish ...........Winsor Newton still recommends this process.
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Well of course they do, they are selling the stuff, not using it, or not as expert as some that do. If Enzo Ferrari and Michael Schumacher went head to head in the latest F1 car, who would win?


Therefore any restoration work done can be removed also without disturbing the original paint surface. Has this changed?
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No - but times have and 'can be' are the operative words above.

Prevention is better than cure.
 
Gumby is right on all counts.

What others are saying is to either just glaze it or take it to a conservator. They are cautioning someone with no restoration/varnishing experience to not try it. They are right too, except for maybe the glazing part.

This is not meant to start another debate on glazing vs. not on oil paintings but to me, it's like my grandmother putting those plastic covers on her couch. It helps to protect it but it sure takes away from the appearance of the object. Kinda creepy when you sit on it too.
 
Furniture for your walls?

Doug Gemmell said:
...This is not meant to start another debate on glazing vs. not on oil paintings but to me, it's like my grandmother putting those plastic covers on her couch. It helps to protect it but it sure takes away from the appearance of the object. Kinda creepy when you sit on it too.
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If your grandmother had optically-coated, anti-reflection glass or acrylic for her couch, you might not have known it was there. Unless, of course, you sat on it, which was usually not recommended for a plastic-covered couch, anyway.

Please do not sit on the painting.
 
No Fun!

Grandma didn't want me to sit on her couch and now you're telling me not to sit on paintings? Come on Jim!
 
Winsor Newton employs some of the top chemist in the world. They sell varnish for oil paintings because it is an accept method of protection. Of course taking some time to research the proper products & application "which is not nano technology" all of which may take you 15-20 minutes. Can be safely done by 90% of the artist themselves. But if you are a clutts or you cannot put on a coat of paint without it running. You would be wise to send them elsewhere. It is a great person who knows their limitations.
Or you can just glaze it and tell them this is what all the museums are starting to do.


Quote:
As a new guy in the barrel I'm reluctant to break new ground on something irreplaceable. Any advice appreciated!

Applying varnish is not that hard. As much as some professionals want you to believe it. Use the right products and tools follow the instructions on the bottle or can. My take is that all oil paintings are irreplaceable. IMHO
 
As others have said, do what can be undone, without changing anything and
that is framing with A/R glazing sheet in the frame. The fact that solvents used to remove varnish can affect the fatty acids, in the oil paint that keep it
flexible, is of concern to many in painting conservation. The have to remove
old dark varnish, so we can enjoy what the artist did, but we do not have to
add anything to the surface of the painting, when we can use sheet glazing.
Owners who insist on varnish being applied to paintings can take them to conservators, versed in the use of the most stable, reversible polymers.


Hugh
 
I'm with Jim, aka Gumby. If the substrate of the painting is in good shape and the oil paint still has good adhesion, it is not rocket science to varnish a painting with a good removable final picture varnish. I generally apply one brushed coat of either Winsor & Newton or Grumbacher clear removable non-yellowing varnish and then follow up with two light coats of spray. By brushing on the first coat you can more completely cover the painting by working the varnish evenly into the brush strokes. Damar varnish is not used as much any more because it yellows with age and is quite gummy and more difficult to remove than modern varnishes. Do not use retouch varnish or any other type of varnish not intended as a final picture varnish.

If the oil needs cleaning then it should be cleaned by someone who has the experience to properly clean the painting prior to varnishing. Cleaning an oil is not terribly difficult if the the painting is in good shape. If not, then conservation work should be performed by a trained conservationist prior to varnishing, if so desired. Cleaning a painting is quite time consuming but rewarding. Great care needs to be taken not to harm the oil and it requires patience.

I don't disagree that glazing is a better choice from a conservation standpoint, but many clients do not want glass on an oil.

Dave Makielski
 
Brian K said:
I have a 41 year old oil painting in the shop that is in good shape and a valued family possession. The client wants a protective finish applied. As a new guy in the barrel I'm reluctant to break new ground on something irreplaceable. Any advice appreciated!
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Does "in good shape" mean perfectly clean? My biggest concern would be that I'm not really qualified to judge the actual condition of a forty year old picture. Will I be varnishing a lot of whatnot onto the surface...? Some of that unknown stuff could be microscopic or nearly so.

I vote glass/spacer. Plus I do like the look, if that can be credited.
 
Dermot, please note that the above information is not for a removable final picture varnish but is rather for Winsor and Newton's Permanent Craft Varnish. Never use this varnish on anything other than craft projects.

It appears W/N doesn't offer the aerosol version of their acrylic varnish. I use the liquid version with an airbrush for the final two light coats after brushing. Grumbacher still makes an aerosol.

This maybe points out that there is confusion about what varnishes should be used and why a framer who has no training in varnishing oils shouldn't attempt it.

.No offense intended anywhere folks


Dave Makielski
 
Bren, glazing would always be a better choice from a conservation standpoint, but Brian indicated that his client wanted a varnish. If you can convince your client that glazing is a better choice, by all means go that route.

A 41 year old painting could very well be clean enough not to need anything but a dusting with a soft brush and possibly wiping with a damp...not wet...cloth. ( I see some eyebrows going up on this one...please notice I said damp...you do not want to moisten the painting, just pick up the dust.). It depends on how it was stored or in what environment it was displayed.

Also, the painting is possibly already varnished. Quite often you can ascertain whether a painting has been varnished by holding it up to the light and seeing if there are parts of the painting that are matte and other areas more glossy. If so, then the painting has probably never been properly varnished as different oil pigments dry with varying degrees of sheen. This is not a sure test though as someone may have applied different varnishes in different areas, etc. If the oil has a uniform look it quite possibly has been varnished already.

If in doubt, check with a conservator.

Dave Makielski
 
I said Chemists not scientists. In their field of expertise they are the among the finest!~
Have you ever talked to them? Do you know them or their qualifcations? Do some more research then make the statement.
Well really you don't have to it is really not important. As the question was what do we suggest.

Hugh
What is the proper way to glaze an oil painting? What would be the cost & time to do this properly for a 16 x 20 oil painting? ie. The materials used glass wood, plastic etc. The amount of time "approx." I realize that the time it would take you will be much less than it would take a framer that does not do it all the time but it would be a good yard stick. The construction method, dimensions distance from glazing, the ventilation and climate controls that would be needed to keep glazing from being a determent to the oil?

Actually we should reall suggest this guy take it to a museum so they may store it fro him in a climate/humidity control envirorment
 
Dave said:
...Brian indicated that his client wanted a varnish. If you can convince your client that glazing is a better choice, by all means go that route...
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Probably most clients would ask for varnish, for any number of reasons. Do you suppose that client understands the choices available for protecting his painting?

If the client understands -- and most do not, in my experience -- then he would be able to make an informed decision. I would comply with the client's wishes, so long as his decision is fully informed.

Except that I would not change the condition of a painting. I would contract a conservator to do that.
 
Jim what makes you think he did not?
 
As long as they do not touch the painted surface, glazing materials are not a detriment to oil paintings. They will help to keep the painting from vibrating
when in transit (along with its backing board) and will keep air pollution and
human traffic away from the paint. Acrylic sheet or laminated glass have the
advantage of being shatter resistant and if either is well spaced in front of
the canvas, they will be a boon to its preservation. Anti-reflective coatings on
the glazing are an aesthetic plus, but will increase the expense significantly.
This approach may not please some curators and owners, but it is worth remembering that some antique paintings had painted covers that we appreciate as paintings in their own right, today. Whether a canvas needs to
be given such preservative treatment, is a question that its owners will have to answer, but more and more paintings in museums are being protected with anti-reflective sheet glazing.


Hugh
 
I agree but If we preserved everything then there would be little intrinsic value left, let alone room to hang it all. LOL
There are all levels to which display of art can be taken. Just as there are all levels of a persons pocketbook. I can say for my average customer the expense to museum glaze an oil painting is outside their reach. Only a small percentage will ever opt for this. This does not mean it should not be offered there I agree. never underestimate what a customer will or will not pay for. You never know the value they place on the art!~
 
GUMBY said:
I said Chemists not scientists. In their field of expertise they are the among the finest!~
Have you ever talked to them? Do you know them or their qualifcations? Do some more research then make the statement.
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In my part of the world a chemist is also a scientist and the last time I checked the same applied in your part of the world and yes I do know something about how Windsor and Newton operates……….in another life I sold their products for a few years to the educational market in Ireland

I was also involved in the science industry for long enough (23 years) to know that any scientist/chemist that is of a top notch calibre would not be working for what is essentially a paint company…
 
Did not know you had such a low regard fro the paint industry.
You win dermot.
You are no doubt probably right they are not top in their field.
 
Let's raise the bar.

GUMBY said:
...I can say for my average customer the expense to museum glaze an oil painting is outside their reach. Only a small percentage will ever opt for this...
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We used to say the same about alphacellulose mats and UV glass. Remember?

My average customer probably isn't much different than yours, Gumby. Most of them drive $35,000 cars and live in $300,000 homes. Nearly all of them make more money than the average framer. I would agree that Museum Glass may be outside their list of preconceived needs, but it certainly is not outside their reach.

When we show Museum Glass to "the average customer", we often sell it. The same is true of many other framing features, both protective and decorative. Customers come to us for our expert advice, and they often buy the features we suggest, if we believe those features have value, and explain that value to customers. Funny how that works.
 
Jim
Yep, you win too!~
 
I emailed Winsor & Newton's tech dept to query them about their input from conservators and thought I'd post their response for those interested.

Their response:

No, we don't employ conservators, but this does not mean we do not have contact with conservators. For well over 50 years there has been correspondence between Winsor & Newton chemists and the world's leading conservators, from the Tate Gallery, The National Gallery , The British Museum, The Courtaulds Institute, The National Gallery of Washington, The Smithsonian Institute to name but a few. This contact continues to this day.
The development of many of our varnishes has followed from suggestions by these conservator's, not least being the work of Feller, Stoller and Jones ( "On Picture Varnishes and Their Solvents") and more recently Rene de la Rie ( direct correspondence as well as published papers) .Conserv-Art is based on the work of these researchers.The incorporation of UV inhibitors and antioxidants prevents the cross linking of the resins and these conservators predicted that the varnish would remain resoluble for over a hundred years. We would consider this broad spectrum of "experts" to be more productive than employing one conservator.

Conversely these " experts" come to us when they want information on the manufactured artist's materials which they have to deal with in conservation of "modern" paintings. The company was founded by a chemist ( who painted ) and an artist, the relationship of science and art has always been important to W & N. Many of the chemists we employ today have a background in surface coatings technology and some are artist's.

Times change and the recommendation to glaze is beginning to be preferred not because of doubts about removability of both traditional and modern varnishes but because legislation may prohibit the use of some of the solvents required to remove them in the future.Galleries who have contact with the artists are beginning to ask if the artist objects to the painting being hung behind glass.

We hope that this information is of help. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further questions.

Technical Department,

Winsor & Newton.


Dave Makielski
 
Dave said:
Times change and the recommendation to glaze is beginning to be preferred not because of doubts about removability of both traditional and modern varnishes but because legislation may prohibit the use of some of the solvents required to remove them in the future.Galleries who have contact with the artists are beginning to ask if the artist objects to the painting being hung behind glass.
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Interesting comment.
 
I thought the reference to Rene di la Rie interesting as he is credited by Gamblin as the "formulator" of their varnish. While I use both WN & Gamblin & consider them both to be great products They do seem to me to be noticebly different in handling & appearance. I also see that our brand new batch of WN has new labeling. I haven't used it yet so I can't tell yet if there has been any change to the varnish itself. Maybe it's just a packaging change. As for the great glass vs varnish controversy, the artist in me is still having difficulty with the notion of a painting under glass. Even museum glass (although I've tried it on a couple small pieces of my own for demonstration purposes). While the framer in me understands the reasoning. I hope I can uncurl myself from this fetal position in time to help customers this morning. Thanks
 
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