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Problems with "Super Steel 1 Hangers"?

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Echobelly

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I like using the super steel hangers from Larson/Juhl on frames with very narrow backs. They have holes in the back of each for two normal screws or two very small screws and a tab stamped out and angled up to tie your wire to. Recently a medium sized picture with glass that had only been framed a month or so fell off our gallery wall because the wire broke. I looked at it, and the wire had actually been cut through by the somewhat sharp edge of the hanger. We use vinyl coated wire, so this surprised me. I'm concerned with customers work I've used them on. I try to avoid them now, but have occasionally needed to on heavier frames that can use the added strength of the second screw, so I wrap the part the wire is tied around with heavy cloth tape to give it extra cushioning. I was just looking at the packaging they come in and it says "do not double loop". I don't see how a single loop would prevent this problem, I always use a framers knot to tie the wire. Has any one else had this problem?
 

Larry Peterson

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Some suggestions.

1. Switch to Flangers.

2. Switch to acrylic on heavier frames with narrow mouldings.

3. Try Super Softstrand
 

Framar

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Flangers are great.

You could also run a small needle file around the inside of the opening on the LJ hangers. Wouldn't take much to knock down the sharp edge.
 

wpfay

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Questions:
How tight is the wire across the back of the picture?
What was the weight of the picture?
What weight wire were you using?
 
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Framar

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Paper and Flangers present a difficult task. You kind of have to apply the paper with a bit of "give" in it so the cleat does not punch through. Sometimes I stick a bit of J-Lar in the spot to reinforce the paper. (I don't use them that often - got 2 free boxes way back when after getting my story published in "Nightmare on Framestreet." Most of the time I forget I even have them.)
 

David Hewitt

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super steel hangers from Larson/Juhl
packaging they come in and it says "do not double loop". I don't see how a single loop would prevent this problem, I always use a framers knot to tie the wire. Has any one else had this problem?
They do have a sharp edge, deburring and sanding with emery paper will smooth the surface.
The manufacturer is AMS, I called them once on the single loop theory, they said they did a test and that the single loop held better.
I personally like the locking of the framers knot, but because of a possible liability problem when using the Super Steel hanger I do the single loop. ( Following manufacturers recommendation)The single loop with stainless steel wire (Soft Strand) needs many more wraps Think 21 like the card game. If you don't do a lot of wraps with SS you will be able to unwrap it with little pull on the wire, try it you'll be surprised.
 

Joe B

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I'm not a Super Steel Hanger fan - they do cut the wire with the sharp edge. If the customer moves the framing to often causing the wire to run up and down that U portion, the sharp edge will sooner or later cut the wire. There are some applications where the Super Steel Hanger is necessary but I use D ring hanger whenever possible, even on thin frame. On the thin frames I just put the the base of the small D ring hanger to the grinding wheel and grind off a portion so it fits the frame without being seen from the front.

When I do need to use the Super Steel Hanger, which I also purchase from Larson, I cut a 3/8" piece of "Duck" Duct Tape about 1 inch long, fold over one end to make it easier to insert through the "u" portion of the hanger and wrap it 2 or 3 times. I make sure the tape is very tight. I cut off the folded portion of the tape and then install my wire - it take a few minutes longer this way but I have never had a wire failure since I started doing this.

I have not used the Flanger Hanger so I cannot comment on those about how good they are or if they would cut the wire. I believe that I would have a problem with the Flanger Hanger because of the piece (cleat) that folds over the inside edge of the frame possibly cutting the dust cover, but that is just my thoughts.

IMG_1036.JPG
 
Last edited:

Framar

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I agree. I far prefer D-rings. And I take tin snips to clip off any part that would be visible from the front, then file down the rough edges just in case. And the rings are made of round metal so they do not cut through the wire.
 
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JFeig

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This has been a problem with several stamped hangers over the years. There is a very basic standard process for deburing metal stampings for years. It is called a tumbler where that parts are inserted into a vibrating tub with abrasive ceramic "stones" with some water and detergent. After a predetermined time the parts are removed by a magnetic belt without burrs. Yes these machine can debur tens of thousands of parts at a single time depending on the size of the tub. I have no idea why this technology is not being used by the picture frame hardware manufacturers.
 

Framar

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I bought a bag of 1000 tapped corners from Decor and was surprised to find a handful of little round ceramic "peas" included. These must be what is used in the deburring process. Took me a bit to figure out what the heck they were. They were ranging in size from maybe 3/16" to 3/8" diameter.
 

Echobelly

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Some suggestions.

1. Switch to Flangers.

2. Switch to acrylic on heavier frames with narrow mouldings.

3. Try Super Softstrand
I do use Super Softstrand wire, #6 was on this pic, which is about 2x3 ft. I can't switch to acrylic on most pics, the customers don't want the extra cost, and we're not talking about huge pics.
 

Echobelly

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I'm not a Super Steel Hanger fan - they do cut the wire with the sharp edge. If the customer moves the framing to often causing the wire to run up and down that U portion, the sharp edge will sooner or later cut the wire. There are some applications where the Super Steel Hanger is necessary but I use D ring hanger whenever possible, even on thin frame. On the thin frames I just put the the base of the small D ring hanger to the grinding wheel and grind off a portion so it fits the frame without being seen from the front.

When I do need to use the Super Steel Hanger, which I also purchase from Larson, I cut a 3/8" piece of "Duck" Duct Tape about 1 inch long, fold over one end to make it easier to insert through the "u" portion of the hanger and wrap it 2 or 3 times. I make sure the tape is very tight. I cut off the folded portion of the tape and then install my wire - it take a few minutes longer this way but I have never had a wire failure since I started doing this.

I have not used the Flanger Hanger so I cannot comment on those about how good they are or if they would cut the wire. I believe that I would have a problem with the Flanger Hanger because of the piece (cleat) that folds over the inside edge of the frame possibly cutting the dust cover, but that is just my thoughts.

View attachment 35030
I have been covering the flange with tape since this happened. Glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Of course I use D-rings most of the time, but sometimes the Supersteel is needed.
 

JWB9999999

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I use them. I have only had one fail (broken wire). I had triple wrapped the wire around the hanger. As noted previously, the instructions explicitly say not to double wrap. We switched to single wrapping the wire on these and have not had another one fail since then.

John
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Jim Miller

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I use them. I have only had one fail (broken wire). I had triple wrapped the wire around the hanger. As noted previously, the instructions explicitly say not to double wrap. We switched to single wrapping the wire on these and have not had another one fail since then.
I've seen the same instruction about single-wrapping only, and you're not the only one who has had failures with multiple-wrapping of the wire.

Even so, it is puzzling that multiple-wrapping could increase the chances of cutting the wire. Just the opposite would seem logical, as multiple-wrapping should reduce up-and-down sliding of the wrapped wire, distribute the load over a greater area, and lessen the tension on the wraps.

At the trade shows I've asked why multiple-wrapping causes more failures, but have never gotten a real answer. Anybody know?
 

Framar

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Jim, I have been pondering this and it does not make a lick of sense.

Any rocket scientists in our midst?

By the way, I have always been annoyed when taking another framer's work apart to have to undo wire threaded twice through a screw eye and then once around the outside. What is that supposed to accomplish???
 

David Hewitt

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At the trade shows I've asked why multiple-wrapping causes more failures, but have never gotten a real answer. Anybody know?
The manufacturer is AMS, I called them once on the single loop theory, they said they did a test and that the single loop held better.
I personally like the locking of the framers knot, but because of a possible liability problem when using the Super Steel hanger I do the single loop. ( Following manufacturers recommendation)The single loop with stainless steel wire (Soft Strand) needs many more wraps Think 21 like the card game. If you don't do a lot of wraps with SS you will be able to unwrap it with little pull on the wire, try it you'll be surprised.
 

JWB9999999

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By the way, I have always been annoyed when taking another framer's work apart to have to undo wire threaded twice through a screw eye and then once around the outside. What is that supposed to accomplish???

I don't mind it because I just cut the wire in half and remove the screw eyes completely. 😎 We only use screw eyes when the frame is super thin and unable to handle the width of a mirror hanger/D-ring hanger or these strap hangers we are discussing. That amounts to about two or three times a year for screw eyes.

John
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Framar

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The only time I keep original screw eyes in an old frame is when the back of the frame is 1/4" or so wide and the screw eye has been seated firmly in there for many decades. And only for frames 11x14 or smaller.

But I always put new wire.

Lots of art collectors with antique frames do not want to be able to see anything sniny and new from the sides of their antique frames. I even have a small selection of antique screw eyes if I need any replacements for them. (I also have a stash of antique glass for these folks.)
 
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Mary Beth van der Horst

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So I'm stumbling though my emails and getting distracted this morning when my eye catches these in the 888 manufacturing flyer.
1617028599315.png
Listed as Narrow Flanger Hangers

Has anyone used these before and have anything to say about them?

Looking closely at the wire hole, it would appear to be constructed with a more rounded edge than the super steel hangers. I wonder if they would be less likely to cut into a wire over time with a traditional pretzel knot, though it looks like they still tied a single knot or just twisted the wire in this picture.
 

alacrity8

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At the beginning of the thread, many recommended the Flanger.
I have not yet tried them, but likely will.
 

wpfay

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I like the engineering with the Flangers, but not the fact that you have to slit the dust cover to use them. Seems a bit counterintuitive.
If you are using tape to create a dust seal, that might alleviate the problem.
 
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Mary Beth van der Horst

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When I use the Flangers, I slice a slot for each downward flange, through the backing paper, right beside the inner edge of the frame.
Oh snap. I didn't notice the edge compromises the dust cover. I guess you'd have to tape seal the framing package when using these(glass to backboard) before dropping in. Therefore the dustcover with slits is more aesthetic than protective.

More work, but less worry in a sense?

My bad for not noticing flangers earlier in the post. I don't think the word meant anything to me until I actually saw a picture to compare. Eyes just glazed over... lol.
 

Shayla

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What size is your frame? Is it wide enough that 2 or 3 hold D-rings, one on either side of the back, close to the top, could hang directly from wall hangers, with no wire? I'm guessing it's not big enough to need a Z-Bar cleat hanger, but we also do those on some large frames.

And thanks for starting this thread. I've been double-looped wire for the past 21 years, and never had a break. Done it with plastic-coated wire and 2 hole SuperSteel hangers a zillion times, and never had one come back. But, it's always good to learn a better way, so am open to any new helps. I do wrap it very tightly, and with no space between the loops of wire at the end. The only time I've ever seen a wire break was the first year I worked for my last boss. We used these hangers (at my suggestion), on a horizontal frame that was about 17 x 55. (Now, I'd try a different method, but it happened.) The wire broke, and my boss thought it meant the hangers were bad. But she used braided wire, which can break. I tried explaining that the braided wire was the culprit, but she liked braided wire, so didn't quite agree. As soon as I had the ability, I threw out all braided wire and switched to Softstrand. Then, Super Softstrand. We've never had another problem.

In reading this thread, I can see that, rather than the braided wire having been the sole problem, it was both. The sharp edge of the Supersteel hanger, and the vulnerable wire, along with the weight, made their own little perfect storm. If we'd used D-rings, her braided wire wouldn't have broken at first. (Only years later, when the weight on the hanger finally made it snap.) But since I've had no troubles in the years since, I still wouldn't use that wire. Hard to wrap my head around not double-looping the wire, though.
 

framer bill

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I was recently told the flanger company is out of business. Decor and Omega have no stock remaining. I bought the knock off version from 888.
The quality is lesser than the originals from Flanger. The large size from 888 are a little wonky not exactly flat. I hope they upgrade their quality soon.
I'm already missing the originals. Bill
 

PAckerman

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I must disagree with Farmer Bill. I am so confident of our quality that I will send anyone who asks a free sample of all three sizes of the Flanger and our small Super Steel hangers to try.
Send me your address and I will send them along for you to try.
 

Echobelly

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I must disagree with Farmer Bill. I am so confident of our quality that I will send anyone who asks a free sample of all three sizes of the Flanger and our small Super Steel hangers to try.
Send me your address and I will send them along for you to try.
Would love to try some samples: c/o David, Collector's Gallery and Framery, 114 Nokomis Ave S, Venice FL 34285
 
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Mike Labbe

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The grumble's host frame shop (Get The Picture) uses 888 products, and we have never had a problem with quality/quality control. The shipping is usually pretty quick, too.
 

PAckerman

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After Framer Bill's comment I had my curiosity button pushed. I have taken some samples of all three sizes of the original Flanger and compared them to ours. All were as exact as possible and impossible to tell apart by eye. I then used my trusty caliper to go over the dimensions and found our product is constructed of identical thickness steel and overall dimensions are right on the money. Framer Bill, if you have any of the product you have deemed inferior, I would like to see it. Call me please. My toll free phone number is 888-338-3318. I will replace all the product you have you like. Bill by the way is there any chance that your name is Joe?
 
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