Problem customer...

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gemsmom

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Oct 10, 2000
Posts
3,576
I had a new customer in a few weeks ago who wanted to frame a papyrus she bought for $5.00. We selected the framing which came to $250.00. She gave a deposit and left. She was so excited with her selection she came back a few hours later with a large pastel to select more framing, this came to $325.00. She made her choices and left. When the work was done she came in immediatly to pick up the pastel. She didn't like the frame. Okay, we'll choose something else if you really don't like it. She has no time, we'll do it another day. Bring out the papyrus. Stunning, she says. Pays for it and leaves. Calls me one week later, I hate the framing, I want a refund. Sorry, this is custom work, I'll reframe it for you, but no refund. She wants the pieces taken out of the frames and her money refunded. She has given me several reasons for not wanting to make others choices, but they don't fly. One is I can't see her "vision". We'll, I have 3 other people here she could work with, so I am sure one of them could see her "vision". I've checked with the BBB, and she is not entitled to a refund. I didn't even have to offer to reframe them. She offered me $50.00 for my labor, because she felt I should receive "something"(talk about adding insult to injury). I've been debating with myself for a few days now-here are my choices: refund and be done with her;charge her for the materials only;charge her for the labor only;keep the reframing offer open for a limited time. There is more I could add to the story, but this is getting long. I'm interested in hearing what others would do. I've never had a situation like this before, but I can't imagine anyone not accepting an offer of reframing. My gut instinct is she has found herself short of money at the end of the month. She called at 4:00pm. Tues. and wanted her refund by 5:00pm. Tues.
 
It would seem there is nothing you could do to please them, let alone keep them as a customer (you dont want them anyway). I think you may be right about them needed quick cash, not your prob though. I favor the idea of no refund at all as this is custom work. If she freaks maybe offer 25% refund or something. Haven't had any like that myself. Good luck


---Mike
 
This sounds like someone with problems beyond framing! I do not understand why one week the framing is "stunning" and the next week she hates it! Do you really want someone that flakey as a customer? This would be reasoning behind giving her the "art" back and a total refund with the understanding that she never comes back. Only once I had to tell a customer of this sort that I work VERY HARD to make my customers happy and if it doesn't look like I can accomplish that I would rather not have her as a customer!
BUT maybe she just needs a bit of hand-holding. If cash flow is an issue, maybe you can work out some sort of layaway plan with her. Maybe her husband objected (I'll bet she has a habit of impulsive purchases)and there is a way to placate him.
Hah! How busy are you? I am slow now, so I might just try to work it just to see if I could. Sometimes, when it is the design that is the issue, I insist that they take it home and try it for a few weeks before we reframe it. But if I were very busy, I would not want to take time away from legitimate customers and I would send her packing.
It's tough being the Boss Lady sometimes ain't it? Trust your gut says
-The Goddess
 
Despite everything that has happened don't forget that the customer is always right. Your customer will probably not admit to having made a mistake, another option is to offer her a 50% refund and let her come back when funds are more readily available to her, or 50% refund and try to sell it in your shop, if it sells within 1 month give back another 40%, something along those lines may be suitable and acceptable to both parties.
 
We have a sign hanging by our cash register. It has large block letters in red against a white background. The sign is titled "REFUND POLICY"
It goes on to explain our policy on refunds in red block letters.
The main thing it says is "ABSOLUTELY NO REFUNDS OR CREDIT ON CUSTOM MADE OR CUSTOM CUT PRODUCTS"
When we make a sale, we write the entire order up on an invoice, we ALWAYS make the customer sign the bottom of the invoice.
We also explain to the customer that we guarantee all our workmanship for life, we will replace or repair anything that goes wrong for free. We do not however, guarantee the design of the framing, that was settled before we wrote the invoice. Telling us that we are the experts and should have known that she would rather have a bright yellow mat with orange hearts all over it will not fly. The customer approved the design at the design table and that is what they are going to get. We make all of this real clear to the customer before they leave the store, especially if it is a new customer.
Every order that is placed with us is ether paid in advance or a fifty percent deposit is made before any work is done.
So, In the submitted situation above, I would not do anything, no money back, no new frame. That is only because we made everything very clear when the order was placed.
John
 
I have to disagree with Lance...I think Pam has gone above and beyond for the customer--the reframing offer is very courteous and a good way to make someone happy who is truly unhappy with the work.

But it sounds to me like the only thing this woman is unhappy with is her bank balance, and that's not anyone's problem but hers. The whole idea that the "customer is always right" has led to an entire population of people who think that they can do/say ANYTHING and get away with it because they hold the almighty dollar.

I had a customer once who had me re-frame something from some other shop, warning me to "be careful because the glass is cracked--" and so we agreed to replace the glass--and then when she came back, she swore that she had said NOTHING about broken glass, that we had broken it ourselves, and she wouldn't pay for the glass.

Sorry, she WASN'T right, and shame on me for not getting full payment for the glass ahead of time. Certain customers are not worth keeping, and they are most certainly not always right.

I disassembled the frame and gave her back her artwork, sans the glass. Labor I had to give away--but materials, NO.



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I don't care what color your sofa is.
 
She's definately suffering from "buyers remorse". I don't think there is any winning with this customer. If you reframe the pieces for her what happens if she doesn't like the new framing? In all custom orders we take a 50% NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. This at least pays for the non reusable materials and some labor. If the customer can't be satisfied any other way we return the artwork but keep the deposit. I've never had to do this and am not sure that I could as I'm usually a pushover. It might be worth sending her to the BBB to discuss with them what her options are. When she finds out she has none she might be more willing to listen to your reframing option. The only other thing you could do is offer to take out and return her artwork and any funds over the 50% deposit. That way you're kind of splitting the difference. I don't believe you are legally bound to do either though.
 
A few months ago I worked with a customer for about 2 hours. She followed what I suggested but gave her reasons for rejecting my advise. She was clear the direction she wanted the design to go and I followed along until she made her decision. I pointed out that it was her design decision not mine. Her husband picked up the item a few days later and paid the bill. She phoned the next morning and said she hated the framing. I told her I was sorry she was not happy and that I would be glad to work through the design with her to get something to please her. Then the question - "Do I have to pay for this framing?" No hesitation from me - yes you do. This is custom, one of a kind work and there is no refund. I then pointed out that I would work very hard on her behalf and would charge as little as possible in new materials. I would definitely not charge much for labour. Our conversation went along without bitterness until she was clear where I stood. I have not heard from her since.

If you bought a Big Mac for 99 cents and ate it would they give you your money back?

If you bought a tank of gas for 50 bucks and drove around until it was gone would they give you your money back?

I can't imagine why a framer would even think about giving back 575.00.

If you net 30% in your business you would need the profit from about the next 2000 dollars in sales to make this up.

Sorry you softies but this is business!

(Unless of course the customer was had already done about 10,000 dollars with you this year and you expected more.)
 
I'd have to tell her that if she continued to interrupt my day I would have to bill her for consultation. There are innocent people who thru ignorance end up making mistakes. Then there are others.
 
Everyone has given great advice. I'm confused about her "vision". She was there for the design process wasn't she. LOL She may be short on money or perhaps a friend, etc. stated they didn't like it. Have had that happen. Think you ought to stick to your guns on this one or you'll feel "had". Once framed a print and lady brought it back saying hubby said we came in too far on the print and cut out two ducks. Wanted money back. Really nasty about it. Fortunately I had the same print in house and showed it to her. Odd how memories play tricks on us. Good luck. Cody
 
Showing compasion for a customer when they have made a mistake can be written into your business plan and can also prove to be profitable. Scarfinger, at the end of your post you say "Unless of course the customer was had already done about 10,000 dollars with you this year and you expected more", there has to be a first sale, I know from my experience that I cannot foresee a customers value.
 
Lance, I wouldn't have been in the framing business for over 20 years if I didn't show compasion for my customers. I will go far beyond the call of duty to satisfy my customers. But I can't give back the pay I get for my work. If I did I would not be able to feed my family.
 
Question to those of you that might give the customer a refund. What will you do if she comes in a few weeks later and wants another item framed? No point in having her pay in advance or even pay a deposit as you have now set your standard. If she changes her mind after you have done the framing you will give her a refund again.
 
I've only had it happen once. I un-framed the artwork, gave the man a refund and suggested (with a big smile) that in the future, I was sure he'd be happier having his framing done somewhere else. I didn't say it, but if he got the message that I'd be happier too - so much the better. Kit

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Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
 
Come on Scarfinger, you can live on pea soup for a while
wink.gif
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I can see where you're coming from and I kind of agree, the customer is being "tricky" and could be trying to take advantage rather than have a genuine problem, perhaps.
 
Pamela,
I don't think you should give in to this customer in any way. She is trying to take advantage of you. I certainly would give her NO REFUND and any reframing should be at the customers cost.
She made the decision to go ahead with the design! I'm assuming that you did not hold any sort of weapon to this woman's head.

If she was so anxious to spend that amount of money on the designs then either she should live with it......or, was there some sort of premeditated agenda in her mind to get her framing for FREE in the first place???? Either way I would politely tell her to rack off!!!
 
Thanks to all of you for your input. Here is what I'm planning to do, let me know what you think. No refund. Since she found my offer of reframing unacceptable, it will be withdrawn. She has had a week to accept. I will offer to credit her 50% of the total retail price of the job and the pieces will be taken out of their frames. She will still have to spend another $40.00 or so to get her remaining piece back. I'll doubt this will be satisfactory, but what else can I do?I don't need her money, but now it more an issue of principle. And I hate my time being wasted. And I hate being insulted. And...oh,well.
 
Pam-I've always trusted my gut instinct. If I thought there was a geniune mistake or misunderstanding, just like you, we would bend over backwards. But, if I felt they were taking advantage of us, we would end it right there. All customers are not always right. We've had to ask a couple of clients to take their work elsewhere.Ain't pleasant, but necessary sometimes
 
Pamela, your last line shows your pain and frustration in dealing with the issue. Framers work so hard to please people - you have to be this kind of person to be a successful framer. Then you hit some situations where you just can't win and it just rides with you for days even costing sleep. Life is too short for these ones and getting them finished and forgotten may be more important than anything else.
 
Pamela , I think I may have a job for you in Australia . Have just had a new customer come in who has just spent two years teaching and touring in Africa and has got together a collection of 25 papyruses which she wants framed . With your ability to get people to pay $250 (US) - roughly $425 (AUS) per framing job we could make some good money . Of course with airfairs being what they are , there goes my profit .
Well at least we can dream
 
customers like this make my head spin!
why would you lower yourself to second guess the finished work by offering to re-do it.
my policy is if you want to pick another frame etc. they pay, and for shop time again. do you really want her back as a repeat customer!?
sounds bi-polar to me......
chin up Pamela.....
beth
 
You guys are great! I personally service over 2000 people a year with no complaints, so I guess when I do get one it's gonna be a doozy! You are right, of course, I don't want her as a customer. She'll never be one anyway. I called her Wednesday a.m. with my final offer. It's Saturday, and I still haven't heard from her yet. I'm wondering what she has up her sleeve now. She did bring the paid-for piece back a week ago saying she didn't want it.
 
Just thought it might be helpful to bring the first thread back up to the top now that the subject has come up again 2 1/2 months later!

I would probably have attempted to kindly tell her that I didn't think our relationship was working out very well for either of us and that she should find another framer.
 
Thank you, rosetl. I should mention that this customer lives 25 miles from my shop. She lives in a town loaded with framers and where my second shop is located, under another name. She has probably pulled the same thing on some of them and is possibly known around town.
 
Pamela, at this stage of the nightmare. I would be strong and explain why your offer is no longer an option due to the fact she did not respond in a reasonable and timely manner. Don't tell her you have discussed this with the BBB, keep this secret as a trump card if you need it. Tell her, the amount due is $345.00 for the services provided and agreed to in January. And regretfully, it appears you are unable to provide her future custom framing. Afterall, you really don't want her business...ever. If she refuses to pay for the outstanding balance, put the artwork out in the front with a SALE sign on it, or-best-offer (above the cost of framing). Pamela, end this 5 month nightmare and get some sleep at night (I say this because it is probably keeping you up at night).
 
Pam, what is your position, legally, as to recovering the balance she owes you? (I am too da*n mean to deal with customers, myself) We had a customers work that was brought in last September. Every time Janet called her to find out when she was coming to pick it up, she'd been sick, out of town, lost her job, ad nauseum. I immediately wanted to call the local magistrate and see what our legal options were.
Janet followed the example of the cooler, more astute business-persons on the G and put it on display with a for sale on it. Left to my own devices, I probably would'va tried to collect my money. 'Course, then the issue of 'I wasn't happy with the work, yada, yada' would've come up.

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I'm not totally worthless. I can always be used as a bad example...
 
Right on Charles!
I took one of my customers to small claims court to collect for unpicked up pieces. I had no problem getting the full amount but remember you have to have documentation. Lists of calls, excuses given,copies of registered letters etc. Most courts are on the side of small business.
 
That's an interesting option. Apparently it depends on state laws, which of course are widely variable.

There was a pretty good discussion on this issue a while back about selling someone's art and I remember it being a fairly muddy discussion.

Perhaps Mel can swing in and enlighten my po' old memory.

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"If you're going to do something to excess, you might as well go overboard."
 
Well, I can swing on in here, but can't be of help. Lawyers and paralegals aren't invited to small claims courts. That's a do-it-yourself arrangement.

As for placing customers' work for sale, there was, as you mentioned, earlier talk about this and would be worth the search time. Be careful to abide by your state's laws. Is it worth the cost of legal advice? Maybe not. I'd probably get all my documentation together and go Small Claims court.
 
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