Printing - Offgassing Warning

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Kirstie

Kirstie

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Posts
8,395
Loc
Berkeley, CA
Although Epson states that prints must dry for 24 hours before framing, we noticed something just in time tonight before an installer's pick up tomorrow morning. We framed about 35 large photos with 4 ply mats, glass, wood frames. We framed them a full day after we printed them on Epson Premium Luster. Several of the darker ones looked like the glass was badly cleaned. Upon inspection we realized that the darker parts of the prints had offgassed and fogged the glass. A good cleaning solved the problem, but we had to take several apart to do so. The photos that were lighter did not have this problem, but dark blues and blacks were badly fogged. We will now wait at least 48 hours before framing newly printed images. This can be problematic for rush corporate work, but it is what it is and clients will just have to give us time to wait for drying.
 
Epson does state that this can occur if framed in that short of a time period. Gloss, satin and luster papers are much more prone to this since they use much more ink especially in very dark areas and the paper is not at all absorbent. Did you interleave the prints with kraft paper as recommended by Epson. The larger the number of prints on the pile the longer the drying time involved.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Epson does state that this can occur if framed in that short of a time period. Gloss, satin and luster papers are much more prone to this since they use much more ink especially in very dark areas and the paper is not at all absorbent. Did you interleave the prints with kraft paper as recommended by Epson. The larger the number of prints on the pile the longer the drying time involved.
Click to expand...

We have been drying them on a stack of foamcore, each sheet raised off the one below it and each sheet holding one print. I think we need screens instead. No, we did not interleave them, but I remember reading about that now that you mention it. We are currently doing another large job, about 100 small pieces, on enhanced matte and I hope not to have this problem. After drying they were all sleeved in batches waiting for frames. I hope that the sleeves have not trapped moisture, but I don't think so.

This is the first time we have actually seen offgassing in frames.
 
ran into this about 2 years ago . Had rush job straight from printer. 40x60's framed them, installed them went out month later to install some more and there were ghost images on all the of them. We charged the customer a unfit & fit charge. The customer got the printer to pay printer since they delivered them to us knowing we had to frame them the same day they delivered them.
Now when we have rush jobs that come straight from printers we tell the customers they have to dry two days before we can frame them.. Moves the printers deadlines up

Little things we learn as the technology changes.
 
Dark colors

Any material with dark colors may present preservation issues. Dark cloth tends to test more poorly that light cloth and black always presents the possibility of pigment rubbing off. It is worthwhild to keep an eye on such items as they remain in the frame. Traditional prints with heavy blacks have shown a pattern of salt deposition on glass, which may be associated with IR heating of the blacks that drives moisture to the lighter areas.



Hugh
 
24 hours isn't enough. If I frame them that quickly I hang em on a wire with a fan blowing on them. I've seen that fogging at the photo club competitions at least 10,000 times. It's extremely common.
 
So how long should I be waiting to drymount my Epson prints?
 
I have never had any trouble going from the printer to the mounter. It is when the ink off gassing is trapped by the glazing that you see this issue. Kirstie, were the prints heat mounted? I wonder if that changes the time line in drying.
 
I've seen this type of outgassing for years on mounted and unmounted prints. Even the ones I've opened up and cleaned the glass continue to outgass.

I use a photo lab, never had a problem.

 
Enhanced matte paper doesn't seem to have as serious a problem as the paper is more prone to absorbing the ink than the luster papers. Dry mounting would, of course, speed up the outgassing as the heat would drive any residuals out of the paper. The interleaving is also used to absorb the glycols that are evaporating out of the ink...which is what the outgassing is.
Putting them in a sleeve of any sort definitely does not help the situation... as it is the same thing as closing them into a frame.
 
From what I understand, it is the “carriers” in the inks (glycerins and glycols) that present the problems of outgassing. I tend to air dry my prints for about 72 hours before I either present them to the customer directly or frame them.

I have interleaved prints with Kraft paper as suggested, but I don’t notice any ink transfer or “moisture” on the paper, so I wonder how effective that is.

I would imagine that heat (as in a dry mount press) would speed up the volatility of these binders and reduce the eventual outgassing in the frame, but I have no data to support that.

The DuraBrite inks that I use most often even with glossy papers with gloss optimizer do not bleed if dry mounted within a few hours of the print processing, so I feel safe in doing so.
 
preservator said:
Any material with dark colors may present preservation issues. Dark cloth tends to test more poorly that light cloth and black always presents the possibility of pigment rubbing off. It is worthwhild to keep an eye on such items as they remain in the frame. Traditional prints with heavy blacks have shown a pattern of salt deposition on glass, which may be associated with IR heating of the blacks that drives moisture to the lighter areas.



Hugh
Click to expand...

I should note that these were matted with Artique White mats. I realize this does not change the ghosting problem. We also mounted them all in a heat/vac press.
 
like what has been said above

RC papers are more prone than fiber based papers, well thats my understanding

with RC papers like lustre the ink is effectivley sat on the surface of the paper, thats why on some papers looking at the right angle you can see a difference in thickness where black is compare to white, where no ink is present

with the fibre based papers they tend to absorb the ink more, and its also very common to coat the matt fibre papers with a spray after printing, like the hanemuhle protective spray
 
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