Pricing multi-sided frame

[Larry Peterson]

I just did a quote/order for a six-sided frame and

didn't have a clue

how to price the frame properly. The frame is 21" wide and 18" high so I ended up pricing for a 39 UI frame and added in $25 for the pain and suffering (seting up/calibrating/seting back my chop saws and vnailer).

Any suggestions on how should I have priced it???

 

[JFeig]

I would have doubled the price of a rectangle frame.

I think you way underpriced the frame. You will need about 1/3 more moulding than with a rectangle.

 

[Larry Peterson]

Actually it takes less moulding. Think of a six sided frame as a square with the corners cut off. The cut off corners( the hypotenuse) is less than the sum of the two sides.

Doing the math:

Six sided frame width = 18.75"
Six side frame height = 16.25"
Moulding width = 1.625"
Waste factor = 10"

Using my Length Calculator at http://www.thepaperframer.com/FrameCalc.php
I get 92" required for a rectangular frame.

For the six-sided frame, I have 6 equal pieces of 9.5" so the length required will be

( 6 * (Length + (2 * FrameWidth))) * WasteFactor =
(6 * ((9.5 + 2 * (1.625))) * 1.1=
(6 * ( 9.5 + 3.25)) * 1.1 =
(6 * 12.75) * 1.1 = 84.15"

 

[wpfay]

And that took how long, and you get how much per hour?
Material costs aside, the skill level and set-up & knock-down time should be compensated. I don't think I would charge twice the normal cost, but I might figure in and additional hour of shop time for the trouble. You also need something in the way of a specialized tool to join hexagons. A clamp or vise, and you need to pay for that tool.

 

[Ron Eggers]

You charge more 'cause hardly anyone in a given market is going to be willing or able to do it.

I've done a few of these and I won't do them any more. I gave the wall models to various charitable auctions and widely deny that I ever did do them.

 

[Larry Peterson]

And that took how long, and you get how much per hour?

I haven't done one of these puppies before. I wanted to do it, regardless of the time so that I would know what is required the next time one came in the door. The extra setup/resetup time was 60+ minutes for my dual chopsaws/vnailer and that included cutting/joining scrap to test the setup and resetting the saws two times.

You also need something in the way of a specialized tool to join hexagons

My VN-42 will do 4, 6 and 8 sided frames so I used that. I'm not sure if I like breaking down the normal 90 degree setting, but I did it to see what it takes.

The frame is done. Like I said above, I haven't done one of these. You can never really know what something takes until you do one. For those of you who haven't done one, here are some comments.

1. Setting up the chop saws. Hex frames are cut at 30 degrees. I set mine up, and then cut some scrap for a small frame. I had to reset/recut two times to fine tune the angles. If I do one again, I will have to resetup again in the same fashion. Had to set up my saws for normal frames after this was done.

2. Joining. The VN-42 will join a hex frame but it uses the normal 90 degree vnails. In a perfect world, it should take 120 degree vnails (no such animal - minor point). The top clamp won't adjust from it's 90 degree angle. For a sloped frame like the one I used the clamp wouldn't sit properly along the slope and some of the rear nails didn't go in fully. Had to restup my vnailer for normal frames after this was done.

For the pain and suffering, $25 is way too little. If someone brings another one of these in, I'm going to take JFeig's advice and double the price. Total extra time for everything above a normal frame was a little over an hour.

My first attempt was a good learning experience, but I may turn down future multi-sided jobs or price them high.

 

[wpfay]

There are certain profiles that lend themselves to hexagons and octagons. A frame with a straight back can be assembled using a band clamp and articulating corner brackets (IE: Bessey Clamp).
I built a couple of jigs that fit into the 90 degree guide on my v-nailer to work with hexagons and octagons. Other jigs can be made to use a miter sander to true-up the joints.
I regularly make octagons from left-overs and stick mirrors in them.
You might want to review your shop labor rates. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the G and $25/hour is the least I've heard anyone charging. With your skill levels you could easily charge twice that.