Pricing Chop vs Length

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Bob Carter

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
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On the LS Tips thread, Mike shows a screen for a Studio Mldg for the purpose of helping a Grumbler on a minimum footage issue and his help was perfectly explained

But, his example showed a problem with POS based pricing

It showed the cost of the product at length as well as chop and with the "appropriate" scheduled mark ups

For this case it showed the item with a retail of $15.07 if ordered chop and $11.86 if length were selected.

So, why does the customer pay $4.00/ft more because of the way you order (I know, I know it costs you more, yada yada yada). But more to the point, if it's worth $15.07/ft to (chop) Customer A, why shouldn't it be worth the same to (length) Customer B? Especially when A and B couldn't give a whit how you order?

If the product is worth $15.00/ft (and you clearly have no price resistance) to Customer A, why not sell it for $15.00/ft to every client
 
That is exactly what I do..charge the same for length or chop. The only change is if I buy alot of length at sale price..then I may discount the moulding as a special.
 
That is why I use chop pricing (standardization) to establish my retail prices......
even though I might by chop - lenght(50-200ft) - box - whatever.

If I want to offer a "sale price" due to my buying power with a vendor I can - and show a savings for the customer.
 
That question has always been on my mind.

If the retail going price for something, anything not just moulding is 15 bucks, why would we sell it for 11?

I am just as much a problem in this as any framer. Maybe even more so. I seek out 'deals' to have inexpensive choices for my customers.


The real question I have is, how do we know what the going rate for a product is without an MSRP?
 
Makes sense Bob. So why would you[framer] have put it in to calculate both?

If you put everything in as buying chop.. and then you buy BOX like a wise man once told me.... you get to capture some real numbers that help at the end of the month.

Now what I really find confusing [and I know garbage in garbage out]
When I type in a fabric mat as FE2214 it comes up $44, but if I add the hypen and type FE-2214, it comes up as $37. :eek:
I now type it in both ways and take the larger of the two....
But sometimes it will come up under one and "not found" the other way.

POS is great, but we have to remember it's just another tool.... use the side of the hammer and it isn't quite as effective.... :D
 
When I first started here, I calculated and priced both ways, depending on how I ordered the moulding. Had two prices marked on the back of each sample. Not any more. Chop price is every price. I don't have a POS yet, sure saved me time, and since I order most length, saves me $$. Keeps it simple.

I learned that here.

Yeah, what everybody said.
 
Like many in this thread, we only sell at "chop retail" as the Lifesaver 'default' - regardless of buying advantages or negotiated discounts. This is the way our peers do business, in the local community. The software maintains the prices for either method, for those who may use the length method. (or as a reference tool to see length cost)

We rely on a multiplier for most mouldings(which changes automatically with price changes), but some that may fetch a higher value are manually adjusted.

This is a great topic. Thanks for bringing it up!

Mike

PS: The markups in that diagram were purely 'made up'. PLEASE don't take them seriously, or make changes as a result.
 
I do not see why length or chop should impact retail price. In the end, length will cost nearly as much as chop because you will have more scrap, you have to eat the cost of miss-cuts, higher labor cost for doing the chop yourself, saw blade cost, equipment cost, and sq foot shop space for chopping.

Cheers,
Mark
http://www.framedestination.com
 
Mike- the method you just described is my exact approach to pricing too. I don't believe in slavish reliance on a set multiplier, but adjust prices on many items to reflect perceived value relative to related styles.
Here's my question: Which POS do you use, and how do you implement your adjustments to the program's automatic calculation? As new vendor price updates come in, does your adjustment allow the new cost to maintain the margin or pricepoint you desired, or must you manually readjust with each vendor update (thereby diminishing one of the POS's touted advantages)?

Thanks. And, yes, thanks Bob for bringing this up.
:cool: Rick

Edit: Rereading your post, I see that you have Lifesaver. I have FrameReady, but I'm sure the approach to adjustment theory would be similar.
 
Bob you know I am among the worst priceing stratergist around .However we used to use the Highest possible costing price to us to figure our COST. Then if the worst would happen ( our equipment would all fail)we could still sell at a resonable matgin. and if we could use our saws and choppers we could realize a larger profit for those leaner days.

But If everything worked well we had some wiggle room to negoitate on those big jobs that looked for a break or those tough PITA customers who had to have a better price than normal.

Besides when computeing your selling price aren't you supposedto use the larges expense you can incur to figure a price not the lowest? if you use any thing lower you can LOSE something ,and why would you want to do that?

Does that make sense? I normally don't ,I know.LOL
BUDDY
 
Mark quoted: ... "In the end, length will cost nearly as much as chop because you will have more scrap, you have to eat the cost of miss-cuts, higher labor cost for doing the chop yourself, saw blade cost, equipment cost, and sq foot shop space for chopping."
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.
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Bingo, Mark!
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What the market will pay...

Mix it up, it does not have to make sense.

framer
 
Originally posted by Jerry Ervin:
Here is another pricing rub.

If you are buying 'box only' moulding and there is no chop price, how do you figure your retail price?
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For a newbie like me, one idea might be to take the chop price and box price of a few other mouldings by the same manufacturer, figure out the percentage differential, apply that to the box only moulding to get a "chop price". That would at least get me in the ballpark.

An experienced retailer should probably follow Bob Carter's advice and use his/her experience as to what the moulding in worth in his/her market and price accordingly.
 
Jerry I know a few who still do the old school method of pricing. They do it based on the length price. They multiply lenght times 5to 7 times. That is the retail chop per ft. If you do 3x chop it is about the same as 7x lenght, or atleast in the cases we looked at.

PL
 
3x chop??
shrug.gif
JAY GOLTZ, 'where are you'?? ;)

Ever since my first day of framing 'class', the issue of pricing moulding has been insane to me. Illogical. Kinda like grocery stores coming up with milk prices per gallon for the week.
faintthud.gif


I'm with others - 'chop' figures are my constant; whether I buy box, length or chop.

I can never understand why the markup %'s from length to chop for the same company aren't the same. They are all over the map (those that I've studied). Strange. Unless, maybe, if one moulding is wider than the other, it takes more time to get the blade through the extra width. ????????? hee! hee!

Re: POS programs....they are one part + and another part "room for much improvement", even when you use the head of the hammer!!

Mike (off the subject): I've been meaning to tell you that I really like your flag icon! It 'moves' me every time I see it!!
 
Bob et al;
Please excuse a bit of frankenthreading of sorts. But One of Sherry's comments struck a note with me. In the past I had a SBA Professor from UNO say he couldn't follow the varied priceing of the wholesalers.

By this I mean "it can be all over the place"
Some have a 4 foot minimum some a 6 others sell metal chops by the same formula that 1 in. woods are claculated an others are any bodies guess as to how they compute the amount used on a metal chop.

But what he was takeing acception to is that they can send you the nearest to your order with out going under it that they have in stock while some have different defaults to minimum lenghts,with out consulting you of the change.

Point being there is no consitancy to even the amount used in a chop and definitely on minimum lenght orders.

I know some will say we should not order short lenghts but it is pretty much a standrd ordering practice but it's not as to how they decide what you lenght you get or chops are calculated form one supplier to the other or from domestic to import molding.

e.g What formula would you expect when ordering a metal chop ( since the true tickness of the molding is sometimes 1/8 of inch) and what happens if you need a very small frame( less then 8X10 or smaller) in either metal or wood?
BUDDY
 
Is it really necessary to calculate price based on actual cost every time the item is purchased? I would not like that.

The two POS systems I have used both allow pricing to be determined consistently. That is, the price may be based on any cost I want, times any markup I want, plus any fixed-cost adder I want. No matter what I actually pay, the POS price is consistent. When a price change comes from a vendor, it is applied on the basis I have set up in the system.

Nearly all of my moulding prices are based on first-column (highest wholesale price for smallest quantity, no discounts) chop cost, which shows minimum gross profit. In other words, my COGS and gross profit figures are based on the highest wholesale cost, worst-case scenario.

When I buy boxes or multiple chops, or otherwise negotiate a more favorable cost, that added profit does not show up in COGS. I call it "administrative profit", and it shows up on the bottom line.
 
I understand why many price from chop prices but its not even a perfect solution. I find that the chop prices vary drastically between suppliers.

For example every supplier on Earth sells a 1" flat black frame. Their length prices vary slightly. Their chop prices are all over the charts. So you could still be retailing the same profile for significantly different prices.
 
For what it's worth, yes.

But I don't ever buy chops. So pricing from chop would be aweful abstract for me.

Carry on.
 
I guess we could go on forever defending the way WE DO IT (hereinafter referred to as the indefensible)

I only brought it up because it does not accurately reflect your actual CoG's and does not make you "think" about your pricing

How often do you look at an item and say "That should really sell for more than $12.46/ft"

My only reason for bringing up that discrepancy was to point how many things we do about pricing where we take the "easiest method"

And, like too many pricing discussions it denigrates into "This is the way I do it and I'm not going to change" discussions

I would wager my Italy World Cup shirt that the closest many ever get to reviewing pricing is when they push the "Update" option on their POS
 
How often do you look at an item and say "That should really sell for more than $12.46/ft"
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I ask that every time I price a moulding. I put it in a context of what similar styles are already selling for. If you don't, you'll probably leave money on the table. I start from a base of a "standard" markup (of my choice), and then see how the retail "feels" for that item. If it's too cheap for its quality, it goes up. If it might be a pain to work with or detail, it goes up. If even the standard markup makes it seem awfully expensive compared to other alternatives I already have, I may not hang it up at all. (Unless it offers something truly unique as a selling point.) I have to feel good about something in order to sell it enthusiastically. That could be defined as "this is expensive, but it looks fantastic- there's nothing else like it"; "this looks great, and is a great value for the client"; "this is not marked up as much as some of my other styles, but I can sell a lot of it at this price point, and maybe make up the difference on better glass, mat features, etc." or somewhere in between all of the above.
Yes, pricing is something of a voodoo science, but then so is economics.
:cool: Rick
 
Wow, Rick sounds like something a Retailer would say

I'm impressed
 
I like what Rick does. While I've been in business only a short time I think I've done well. I did take over an existing shop and the previous owner left copious notes, and a framer a few towns over helped beyond belief when I started. And Gemini (Don Berg) and Art Express(Joyce) were fantastic. I haven't touched my pension, borrowed money from my husband, and have always taken some money home at the end of the day.
I am number fanatical! I know my costs on utilities, rent, insurance etc. Have them broken down on a daily basis. They get paid first, then my supply costs, this includes moulding, etc. I must say that I try to charge what the market will bear. If someone tells me "Oooh, that's so reasonable!" I'll adjust the price up for their next job. It's worked for me.
I could go into great detail how I price each order, but right now I'm trying to decide on a new computer...I'm still using Windows 98,....a new POS.....and whether I need the imaging 'thingy'. I do have a CMC which will go out of here over my dead body.
Some days I may take home $50, after ALL expenses are paid, some days it's $250. So what am I doing wrong?? I keep asking that question.
 
... right now I'm trying to decide on a new computer...I'm still using Windows 98,....a new POS.....and whether I need the imaging 'thingy'.
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Sarah,

If you're looking for a minimum configuration that will be suitable for your new POS and ia future visualization system, there are some low priced alternatives this week

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/hot_offers?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s%3 (click DESKTOPS)

$349 shipped: Dell PC with Celeron 2.53Ghz, 256 ram, 80gb hard drive, 17" LCD monitor, network card, Windows XP home, cd burner, 1 year on site service

$419 shipped: Dell PC with Intel Pentium 4 2.8GHZ, 256 ram, 160gb hard drive, 17" LCD monitor, network card, Windows XP home, dvd/cd burner, 1 year on site service (better system, worth the difference, IMO)

There are also beefier configurations listed, in the $500 range. I suggest upgrading the RAM to 1GB, but otherwise either of the above will be sufficient for a POS. If you don't have high speed internet (Cable/DSL/FIOS, etc) at the shop, you'll want to add a MODEM too.

Best regards and have a great weekend!
Mike
 
Another thing I've done is track my top 20 sellers. I added $2.50 per foot to each and checked the results 16 were still my best sellers after a year. Think of the money I'd have given away. Price it what you can sell it for.

I split 6 of my low end blacks and raised 3 50% it made no sense. I still sell all 6 but a little less of the three marked up more of the three left the same but the point is I made a ton of extra on the three marked up.

framer

Sense = Cents
 
All right, I'll tell this story again. On higher end framing pricing is somewhat "invisible" to use a phrase from one of my favorite business books, "Up Against the WalMarts".

My grandfather started his frame shop in 1911 and through the years, with hard work, built up a sizable operation with framing composing about 25% of the business's sales with the remainder art supplies and various other items.

Sometime in the mid '70's, I did a yellow sheet accounting of our framing operation and figured we lost about $ 20,000 that year in the framing department. I seriously considered ending custom framing to focus on more profitable areas.

We had a reputation of doing quality work but the perception was that we were quite expensive and you must be rich to have us do your work.

I looked at the annual regional survey in Decor Magazine and found that we were actually running over 20% less than the average prices for our region!

Ok...I decided that I'd budget $ 5000.00 for an ad campaign touting that we did quality work at very reasonable prices. Then I realized that that was one stupid idea to throw good money at the problem in that fashion...

If the work was indeed up to par...and it was...with the misperception was that we were pricey...RAISE PRICES!!! Live up to the expectations.

I immediately raised prices 50% and didn't spend a dime on advertising anything.

One year later I pulled out the same yellow sheet and plugged in the figures...

results:

1.) We did approximately 20% more framing units than the year before.

2.) We showed a $ 20,000 PROFIT in the framing department.

3.) Not a single customer mentioned or perhaps even noticed that our prices changed.

Depending on the market you serve, you may be more price sensitive than your cutomer base. I'm still sticker shocked at the price of custom framing even after being involved in the industry all my life. However, educated customers are not as shocked because EVERYTHING has escalated in price through the years. There are many many customers willing to pay reasonable prices for quality work.

Food for thought.

Dave Makielski
 
I'm left to wonder why you don't raise them another 50% or 100%?
 
Good point, Jay. I trust your being facetious. Obviously in the story I told we were way under the market pricing to begin with. I have been gingerly raising prices moderately over the past few months and have met no resistance. Maybe I'm still underpriced, but seem to be able to take care of obligations a little better.

Dave Makielski
 
Dave I must admit that I was probably running my business in the opposite extreme. I always thought that I would lose customers if they felt my pricing was too much higher than others so I always kept them artificially low.

I also remember Jay Goltz saying in one of his seminars that if you raised your prices by some small % ( I forget the exact number) it will definitely cause you to loose some customers. However the small % multiplied by the remaining customers would more than offset their walking and would end up with a greater profit. This was especially true if your work was seen by the public as being desirable.

I think he also mentioned that most of those who did walk where those you really didn't want to keep anyway ( PITA/Bargin shoppers)and the end result might well be that you'd be doing less work per day for more money. He also said that to start with as a question about "would you like doing less for more?"

But most of us try to keep every sale and in the end work harder for less in a hope to accumulate more volume and end up with the same profit, while creating a reputation of being what I call a "Wham -Bam thank you Mame " shop.

I guess it's all in how you want to be perceived and how much work you want to do for what amount of $$$$.

It works for the BBs so maybe there is some merit in that approach. However I once recall being asked By Bill Parie for my and a friend's cards so when he got that kind of trade he could send it to us. He said he had done his share of it and now preferred to do the small numbered big paying jobs since customers KNEW what he was capable of and what to expect to pay him for doing it. I guess that's true of you too. LOL
BUDDY
 
I realize that this thread has kind of meandered from its original topic as many often do.

One indication that your prices are too low is if you don't have customers walk. Maybe I am priced too low as in the two and a half years since I downsized and dropped selling any products and now focus only on custom framing I can only recall four times that people have walked.

I didn't care that they walked because of price, because in the end they really were not my customer anyway. I guess what bothered me most is that I spent so much time at the design table and could've been getting out the work on my bench.

I have my fair share of PITA jobs, but I look at them as challenges in how to do this kind of work more efficiently so that it is still profitable. However, PITA customers I can do without...there is a difference. I can't tell you why, but I don't have any. Not a single customer in the past two and a half years has really been a PITA.

I probably just jinxed myself and the next one through the door will be a royal PITA!

From Jay's post I realize that I may sound a little snobbish or uppity, but I only want to make people think about their pricing and not have work be a drudgery because of giving it all away. I think the majority of framers on this forum frame because they love to frame. I also believe that 90% of framers are afraid to charge what they should charge for their labors and skill level.

Dave Makielski
 
Bob I totaly agree .The thing I am wondering about is did my long disertation fail to make the same point? I ment it to say just what Dave said,only I didn't practice it when I could have.

But then that sort of advise is often found here don't you think?
BUDDY
 
Originally posted by Dave:
1.) We did approximately 20% more framing units than the year before.
Click to expand...
I'm not picking on you Dave, and I believe your story and the results to be real. I also believe that you know what you are talking about. What I don't understand is, how can arbitrarily raising or even lowering your prices increase the volume? Some other factor had to contribute to the increase in sales. Did I miss a nugget in your post?

I agree that raising your prices will produce more profit. I believe that lowering your prices will increase volume, if you advertise the heck out of your lower prices.

What explained your increase in volume?
 
Dave- I agree with the gist of your statement, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by, I only want to make people think about their pricing".
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Rick
 
My little experiment was many years ago and I can't tell you the reason for the increase in units produced...it just further emphasized the point that unless you are trying to compete on price, quite possibly price is the least important factor whether someone brings their work to your shop or to someone else.

More important factors:

Reputation for quality
Location and/or ease of parking
Personality of shop and its personnel
Turnaround times

etc. etc, etc.

If you constantly scream that you are competitive with the guy down the block and run constant sales, you're focusing the customer on price instead of other issues that could very well be more important to them.

As far as saying that I only want to make people think about their pricing...

Too often we don't pay enough attention to our pricing. How many among us can honestly say that almost daily we don't fail to forsee some aspect of a job in advance and neglect to charge enough for it or charge anything at all. What about that extra fom-bord spacing to fill the frame package? Or the cost of cleaning up your work table after diasassembling an old piece? Whether you do or don't use POS software are you diligent about adjusting for price increases? Gasoline has gone up...do you deliver? Do you use a vehicle to pick any products up. Housekeeping supplies cost more today too. It goes on and on to a point that it is easy to let rising costs erode any profits.

That is exactly what happened to our framing operation prior to my experiment. A profitable operation over several years became unprofitable due to the price increases for everything related to operating the business.

I'm not really anal about this, but I do keep a stopwatch by my workbench and occassionally time how long it takes to perform certain tasks to make sure I'm at least aware of the time certain activities take.

The other point I wanted to make about pricing is that most of us are truly afraid to charge what we need to charge to make a decent living and as a consequence put in long hours for less pay than we could possibly hire comparable talent for.

People use to ask if I owned the business and I answered only half kiddingly, "No, it owns me.".

I'm still working on changing that and pricing is one of the key ingredients to allowing yourself to enjoy your work and have the time to play.

Dave Makielski
 
...and the money to pay!
 
Dave I like your approach and I only wish I had implimented more of it when my shop was open.

I did however use the stop watch thing. I did that at the advise of Brian Wolf when I decided to offer carved mats. We asked him what we should charge for what he was teaching us. He told us to Time oursleves and when we felt we had become PROFICIENT at the task to multply the amount of time by our shop rate and charge that. He said further that we shouldn't worry about what he charged or what anyone else charged since our degree of proficancy would all be different as would the demand for each finished product.

All of that fits right in with your list.

Proficancy and demand =reputation and quality
Turnarond Times is directly proportional to your proficancy
And when you become CONFIDENT about your ABILITY
your and your shops presonality will become much more amiable.
Not to mention that where you are located can and should make a big differance in what you can use for a shop rate.

So once again I think you are right on track.
I only wish I would have been when I was open.Maybe if I ever get another chance.LOL
BUDDY
 
Buddy, I think we are saying the same thing. Unfortunately the old adage "Wisdom comes with age...too late to do any good" is somewhat applicable. However it is never too late to change. Whatever I scream from my soap box is from experience...making many many mistakes and hopefully learning from at least half of them is where I get much of my knowledge base with much more coming from others on this forum and elsewhere.

Many times I'll shake my head at someone's business advice only to live a little more life
and learn enough to vigourously nod my head up and down in agreement.

I wish I was only half as good at taking my own advice as I am at dishing it out!

Dave Makielski
 
If you constantly scream that you are competitive with the guy down the block and run constant sales, you're focusing the customer on price instead of other issues that could very well be more important to them.


Not only are you focusing the customer in the wrong direction but sometimes you may unknowingly direct them TO the guy down the street by mentioning him constantly in relation to YOUR business. I never cared what the guy down the street was doing when I had my own business in operation.

My feeling was exactly what Dave and Buddy are discussing now. Each situation is different but MY "guy down the street" was trying to frame part time and also do another job and he was the one bragging that he was always competitive with ME! And he WAS sometimes, price wise, but he was using paper mats where I was using rag and alpha-cellulose, he was buying closeout moulding where I carried first line LJ and Williamson along with others, he taped or glued EVERYTHING down regardless where I used accepted methods depending on the circumstances of the artwork and the wishes of the customer.

People would eventually come into MY shop after checking out his prices to compare what I had to offer and I always had them hooked as soon as they came through the door!! I already had my ducks lined up when they said that they had just been to so and so's shop and wanted to see if I could beat his prices. I never tried but I always educated them on what they were receiving from me and I always challenged them to go back and compare apples to apples at the other shop. Seldom did they take me up on the challenge after hearing how I would handle their artwork and do their framing.

Was I pricing my framing too low?? Heck no, he was way out of line with HIS prices for the quality of materials and workmanship that he was offering his customers! I knew that and pointed it out every chance I had to everyone who had ever gone into his shop and then price shopped me. If they were satisfied with his prices, they should be ecstatic with mine as I offered them so much more for their money. It is called "perceived value" and I gave them the real thing. He didn't.

So much has changed since those days and I am now dealing with people who are willing to spend 4 figures for artwork and match that with custom framing when the available ready mades don't suit their needs or they want a better quality of framing done. If anyone had told me back then that I would be selling thousand dollar plus frame packages and 4 to 12 thousand dollar original pieces of fine original art on canvas, I would have had a jolly chuckle to say the least. This is such an ongoing learning experience for me and I am so thankful that I have been given the opportunity to be where I am and do what I enjoy doing so much. I always think that I may open another frame shop but then I ask myself the one question that lingers with me always, "WHY??"

I am happy where I am now, I am very well paid, and I have no responsibilities for business expenses, insurance, rent, overhead, yada yada yada, so why start out from square one again??

Framerguy
 
Charging per hour for speciality products has no place in this trade (or any others that I can think of). If it takes you longer to complete a task, odds are its because your not as profecient at it as somebody more practiced. Pricing per hour would encourage you to charge more for inferior products. That could create a whole host of problems down the road.

What I would like to add to this discussion is along the lines of what Jerry was asking. From my experiance and many others that, I have talked to, the problem we have is not making good money on framing. Heck it never fails that we talk about the slaughter room floor where we have been killing one fatted calf after another. The problem is that there is a shortage on cattle. Heck many of us go an entire day without a single customer darkening the door. At that point I could tripple my prices with a $4000 add on for each order. I still wouldn't be much better off. To add salt to the wound, I have increased the odds of running off the one that does finally come in.

If its true, and I think it may be, that we don't charge enough then why on earth shouldn't we at least charge what we are worth and discount down to what we are used to earning???? That would address this issue of being price competitive and certianly help get that door to "DING" more often wouldn't it?

I'm sorry Bob, I don't know what this has to do with pricing from chops and length indepenantly but we are where we are.

Carry on.
 
Jay, I may be a bit dense this morning, but I don't follow your line of reasoning (probably missed the point altogether, but it never stopped me in the past).

Just how would you propose to establish pricing on specialty services otherwise? Are these not things that are by nature labor intensive?

I do get the part of customer flow (or lack there of...boy do I), but if not hourly rates for those things that don't fit neatly into our day to day operation, then how?
 
...why on earth shouldn't we at least charge what we are worth and discount down to what we are used to earning???? That would address this issue of being price competitive...
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??? How?

Jay, I think this would spell certain doom to a framing operation. Focus your customer on price and then delivery superior quality and specialized services but charge less than the value provided...???

It would be quite a amazing feat.

I still feel that a cut rate framing operation is a totally different animal than a "quality custom framing" operation. A cut rate operation has to be geared up for just such business and the marketing and presentation are totally different than a high end shop.

This doesn't mean that a high end shop can't offer something to the bargain shopper, but it must be done very carefully so as not to dilute the main thrust of the operation.

If both markets are to be attacked simultaniously then I still still believe it would be wiser to have two distinct separate locations with the public unaware that they are mutually owned.

Every aspect of both operations from the name of the business to marketing, presentation, location, stock offerings, ... possibly extending to dress and personality of the personnel would be different.

There would, of course, be some overlap in the middle ground. Some customers are intimidated by a higher end shop and wouldn't step foot in the door. Just as suredly, there are some customers that would be embarrassed to be seen driving up to "We Frame It Cheap!".

There is room for both in any given mid-size market but I have a hard time envisioning what a successful growing operation would look like that effectively hits all markets could look like under one roof.

I'm sure that there are some out there running a successful operation under just such a scenario, but I still think separating the two would produce better results in mid to large size markets.

Dave Makielski
 
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