Potential Employee Problems

lise

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jun 3, 2000
Posts
359
Loc
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
2 Weeks ago we hired our first part/full-time framer. We were excited at the prospect of taking her away from a larger mid-higher end framing store here where she had worked for 4 years. She wanted a high wage but we negotiated $2/hr less to start as a training wage, and then up by a dollar in 30 days and then a review in 6 months.
She seemed to have a great attitude and ability to learn when we interviewed her & she assured us that she was very experienced in all areas of framing.
After 2 weeks of framing, I think she exaggerated her ability, half of everything needs to be re-done, and I am not sure now if I should leave her alone as I have been leaving her do do things on her own.
She has proven to have a great learning potential and is great with clients, and is reliable, but we can see that she is going to need a lot of technical training work.
My problem is this, should I get rid of her and hire someone more experienced, or train her more carefully? Do we have to stand over every project that she does and most importantly, what should I do at her review time? I hate this part of the job. I'm a control freak!!
 
You hired what you thought was an experienced framer who could handle the job on her own after a short familiarization period.

You hired her at a compensation that was commensurate with her claims of experience. You now find that you are going to have to train her pretty much from the ground up.

Seems to me if you have to re-train her to do the job to your expectations, yet pay her this inflated salary, you would be better off to just let her go.

I have always hired people with no experience, that way they are trained to do it my way, not someone else's. People come to me for my quality workmanship, they do not want someone else's quality, they want mine, and they are willing to pay for it.

I would suggest you hire a younger person who wants to learn our trade properly. Pay them as you would any beginner, then reward them as their work warrants it.

The person you have now has been trained and rewarded to someone else's standards, not yours. You are getting a raw deal, especially if you have to provide all new training.

John
 
I don't disagree with John, but it's not uncommon to have people "suggest" they are more skillful than actual. Perhaps, if you would have done a more thorough job in the interview process (like have her do a project) the truth might have been more apparent.

But, you indicate that all other aspects are more than acceptable. I'll promise you one thing: it is easier to train the technical aspects to a willing, concientous employee than it is to train a skilled framer to be a willing, concientous employee.

Perhaps a sit down explaining your needs and disappointment with her skill level will encourage he to become more skillful. And a reminder that following increases will not be as rapidly awarded as originally scheduled-unless her skills increase proportionally.

All in all, I would take the good employee over the good framer. I know which is easier to correct.

But, I would reserve judgement on her long-term prospects pending her successful training
 
I've never had much luck with employees, skilled or otherwise. Like John, whatever luck I have had has been training unskilled individuals with a desire to learn than with the self-proclaimed experienced framer.

That said, if I knew I had a reliable person who was good with customers, with definite potential to learn the craft, I would keep them, only because I know how hard it is to find someone with even those qualifications. It is possible she thought she was skilled. This might give you some insight as to what kind of work the mid/high end shop she worked in is turning out.
 
I have worked in a variety of shop settings. Standards have been different in each and every one. At one in particular a job with a speck under the glass was preferable to a redo and I was admonished not to reopen items.

Speaking from the employee's perspective I would hope to have your expectations clearly outlined and to be given an opportunity to meet them.

Is she aware of how many of her pieces have had to be redone and why?
 
Pushed the post button before I was ready.

Who is redoing her work? Has anything been said, or are you just getting annoyed with her? I think holding to a 6 month review at this time is pointless. I would tell her now how things are going, what has to be fixed, and do a review in another two weeks.

The question I ask myself if I am unsure about an employee is "will I miss them if they are not here?" If the answer is "no", well, it makes things alot easier.
 
It is not unusual for a potential employee to exaggerate their abilities - It has been our experience to hire somebody w/ little or no experience - it's much easier than trying to break bad habits or incorrect methods - ie: This is the way I was taught by so & so and that's the way I do it - that type of attitude in the workplace is very hard to correct or overcome.
 
Her perception of her skill level may have been exaggerated, or it may have been based on the requirements of her previous empolyment. I hired a framer once based on the fact that she was the manager of a frame shop in a local mall. I found out later that her framing skills were limited to putting together metal frames and cleaning glass. She had achieved the rank of manager through a very rapid attrition of all the other employees of the store in about a two week period. Imagine my surprise.
By your own admission she is a quick learner, and has the attributes of a good employee that cannot be taught. Tell her what you have told us. Don't wait to do a review. Tell her what you expect and see if she can catch up.
 
Based on what you said, I would have a sit-down, eye-to-eye talk & explain pretty much what your first post said. In a calm, friendly, matter-of-fact tone, tell her of your dilemma & watch her reaction. Be careful not to put her on the defensive. Instead, just explain your dilemma & recruit her help in solving it.

Let her help you decide whether to attempt retraining, or let her go & start over. If she wants to stay, make her commit to accept training and improve to meet standards you clearly describe & consistently enforce.

If she doesn't seem interested in improving her skills, then your choices of action will become clearer.

Wally has a good point -- maybe her claim of skill was based on an entirely different perspective than yours, of what is "good work". Also we, as interviewers, tend to suffer with wishful thinking. Did she really exaggerate, or did she simply do a good job of selling her skills?

In any case, I suggest you take action right away -- don't wait to eliminate your doubts about this employee. Gain whatever insights you need to develop a confident plan of action, whichever way it goes.
 
well are you prepared to give her raise in a few short weeks? if she is not doing the job that you both agreed upon it is not right for you to reward her. if she does the job and more than what you wish then reward away. if you give her a raise then you are sending a message that you approve of her work. that will only make you unhappy in the end. who would like to pay more for an item that did not deliver its original promise?

if you speak with her and she seems receptive to your evaluation, then talk about what the two of you can do in order to rectify the situation. be sure to remind her that you can not pay her more money to train her. but make a new goal, maybe 90 days for that dollar more? make it something you can both live with, be fair, open and honest.

tough call, good luck
d
 
Sorry to sound hard-line on this one, If its not a friend, or a relative, business is business, find another. I person needs to be able to do what they tell you. Do it quick before you become attached. Bob, you are so right about having them do a project. If they are experience with 4 year of working in another shop they should be able to handle 95% of the projects.


After a few questions about equipment they have used to make sure my test would be fair, I would have them cut a double mat, frame, glass and assemble and finish to their standards within a limited time frame.

90% of applicant's that say they are experienced, fail this test to my standards. Some results are funny they are so bad. 25 years ago a framer came for an interview (in those days I tested hand nailing into a small frame) he put 6 out of 8 nail through the side of the frame and thought nothing about it.
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You will agonize over this til they are gone, trust yourself, it's your business that's on the line.


framer
 
Lisa,

I would look at the pros and cons of this person. You say she is great with clients, this is very important and may not be easy to teach to someone who does not have people skills. You say that she is reliable this is an attitude about work and your job that is also very desireable in an employee. She has a great learning potential. I would expect to have to train anyone that came to work for me unless I had first hand knowledge of there work. Mant companies do not want to invest the time and energy to properly train employees and this is a false economy. You reap what you sow. If this person has good employee atributes but is not trained to the level you would like take the time to train her and you will have an excellent employee.

I have no idea what wage you are paying this person. If it is to much for her level of knowledge bring her up to that level through training.

Do you want to dump a person with good potential and then spend the time and money to search again for an employee that may be well trained in someone else's methods.

Jay Goltz said and I am paraphrasing, "If you have an employee that if they walked into your office and told you they are quitting. And then after they left your office you said to yourself YIPPEE she is gone. You should fire that person today."
 
This motto has always served me well:

"Hire for attitude; train for aptitude."

Of course, not everyone has the aptitude for framing... math skills, design skills, etc. But if the basic talents are there and the attitude is good, you may have yourself a winner. Employee turnover is expensive. A good hiring and training philosophy will pay for itself over and over again.

Best wishes,
Susan
 
I will have to agree with the folks that recommend keeping her around. It has been my experience that the technical is more easily taught than the personal. I assume she would be willing to work on her skills in order to bring her abilities up to snuff. However, if she is resistant, make sure she knows where the front door is.
We had an employee who came to work for us, and was an extremely skilled, competent worker. I could give him any project, and it would be handled in a quick, professional manner. I was ready to hand him the keys to the shop and just go home. However, within a few months the personal phone calls started, and this snowballed into sneaking around to do personal projects, not always showing up etc. Bottom line, try to keep her if she shows potential, but even the best ones can go south on you.
 
Jay Goltz said and I am paraphrasing, "If you have an employee that if they walked into your office and told you they are quitting. And then after they left your office you said to yourself YIPPEE she is gone. You should fire that person today."
So true,

framer
 
When you prepare to talk to her, think in terms of win/win. This may entail you keeping her, postponing the raise until technical skills reach standards and developing a great employee. . .or it may entail her leaving before either one of you find yourselves in a more difficult situation.

A work environment that is permeated with tension and eventually hostility creates an atmosphere that other staff and customers can feel when they walk into your shop.


Either way, it needs to be fixed now before the problem grows into a crises.

Good luck.
 
You state that she has good traing potential and is good with clients. 2 very important characteristics in an employee. I assume that you interviewed others and found her to be the best of the lot. If so, then I would sit her down show her her mistakes, let her know how much re do's are costing you, set a 90 day training program with 30 day mile stones for her to reach. if she doesn't reach the first mile stone, sit her down , tell her thatif she is not up to speed at the next milestone date she is history.

I would also tell her that there will be NO Salary REVIEW until after the 90 day period is up.
 
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